I need to replace some fake Flames from my other thread and i want to order a few higher quality cells. But i want to see all my options and whats the best price i can get on them.
So far i have these:
http://callieskustoms.com :18650 3100mAhPCB Protected Panasonic Cells 6.2A Max Discharge. $13.95 each $6 flat rate shipping.
AW 18650 Protected 2900 mAh : http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-2900-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_3671.html $18.75
Past those two i dont know of any other cells that are legit and where to get them, Ive heard Ex Cell has a good cell? and the Hi-Max? Any info on these and where to get them?
Ill only be buying 4 cells most likley as i bought 10 Panasonic 2400mAH cells that kick butt from a member here, But i want some high end cells that i know can push max amps when needed and have a large capacity so they can keep pushing them.
Your Kalliekustoms and AW Protected are actually Panasonic 3100 and 2900 in disguise, perhaps a couple of small difference here and there but they are of Panasonic "heart". No need to buy better stuff....if you are talking about using on lights that push the envelope.
For more mundane stuff, just get the Hi-Max. 6 of them are cheap shipped to USA.
For less pieces like 2-4, you could pick up some Solarforce version 2, the blue letterings. $7 each but if you are only buying them batts then its not that worth it as they charge a mandatory $2 for registered mail. www.solarforce-sales.com
Save as much money as possible, coz I think in the end you'd probably have about 50-100 lights in your collection. And if you get 30-40 Calliekustoms 3100, bless you bro.
And another thing is that even if its protected and you accidentally discharged the cell slowly hence the protection does not kick in due to very slow discharge, you could ruin the cell once you hit like 2V. A cheap cell can be tossed without much pain.
(DANG) I just wrote a very long post about each suggestion and i hit send and it posts only the first sentence! Never fear tho, Im looking at each suggestion very closely. Ill post back what i purchase and will also gladly look at any other suggestions. Also im sorry if i sound like im just throwing money around, Im not. I just need 4 high quality protected cells to run my 2x 18650 lights that pull high amps, And mabey a few cells in between that are less expensive.
BTW, CalliesCustoms are leading the list right now. Great cell,Located in the USA and a very trusted person in the flashlight community. That is hard to beat especially at his prices. I also like some of the AW cells, But they are a bit high for just 2900mAH.
All those are the kind of options im looking for, But your over estimating the amount of cells ill be buying. In the first post i said 4 cells, 40 would be crazY!
That was the first time i lost a large post for just hitting the "save" button, Pretty annoying when you have a bunch of facts written out that took alot of time to research.
Are the Xtar and HiMax 2600mAH the same cell made by Sanyo?
I see those graphs to give a large advantage to the Sanyo cell in power upto 3.5v, BUT what happens when the test is run at 3 amps? As that what the current draw will be out of these high amp XM-L lights. Granted they are 2x 18650 cells running so it may be 1.5a draw on each?
Im gonna run two 3amp discharge tests on my TF Flames and on the Panasonic 2400mah unprotected cells i have. What it will mean to me i dont know, But it will show how important it is i get some higher quality cells if they fail badly. But i feel they both with do decently with my most faith in the Pannies.
Im having a hard time pulling the trigger on 4 calliescustoms at $64 shipped.
And $38 shipped for the HiMax makes me feel like im "settling" and not buying the best due to the fear of spending the money.
AW cells cant compete with the Callies and cost much more.
Redilast 2900mAh is $24 shipped each off ebay here in the USA
You gotta be joking bro. Many of us said just that when starting out initially.
Ask around how many total cells the guys have on average. You'll have a second order, then 3rd. And hey the IMRs look juicy as well, i'll try AW. Doh....the generic IMRs are cheap, no harm trying.
Well over time 40 18650's of assorted brands may be reasonable. But i thought you were saying i was gonna buy 40 CC's all at once! If i counted all my Li-Ion and NiMH cells together im well over 100 now.
BTW someone already mentioned i should try IMR's while i was at it. lol
Anyhow i fell asleep after dinner and didn't get my Panasonic 2400's tested at 3amps, So it looks like it will be a late night/early morning order for me.
I got six cells from: http://cgi.ebay.com/6pcs-18650-2600mAh-Protected-Li-ion-Battery-3-7V-/320479544838?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item4a9e11c606
These will be used in 2-cell regulated lights so i will barley notice any difference except a few extra minutes of dim light when the driver drops to direct drive when the cells are almost empty.
I did consider buying 6 more protected TF Flames, And to be honest they perform very well for the price. But they are $5 a piece and the HiMax is $6.30 a piece. But i still own a set of 18650 protected Flames and wont hesitate to buy more or recommend them. And most likely will have too as cells like these HiMax tend to sell out and disappear from trends ive seen.
Im still buying some protection circuits to add them myself to my bare Panny 2400's that DX sells. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/charge-discharge-protective-circuit-board-for-rechargeable-li-ion-batteries-17-4mm-1-9mm-26112 Im gonna order 10 and use just 5 and save 5 for future deals i may find on hot unprotected cells i cant pass up. I can use the unprotected ones in my 18650 single cell lights.
Also one last thing on this subject. Many thanks to you guys who suggested i try some IMR cells, Just what i need more cells to buy since i dont have any! http://www.bestinone.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=245 Ill get a few of those once i can make sure i have a light that can benefit from them.
I could have a 90% chance of being wrong, But it was from researching the cell as much as i could before hitting the buy button. I think it came from a Review of an Xtar cell which i was lead to believe was a Sanyo cell.
Im gonna edit that post saying anything about Sanyo.
I read so much, Its very easy for me to make a mistake and thanks for pointing that out.
I could have swore i read the HiMax and Xtar were twin cells just relabeled.
But ive been all over the net gleening bits and pieces here and there so for this one so i cant say what the facts are. But i know it looks like a twin to the Xtar 2600 in its power curves like you said. I research all my purchases as much as my knowledge allows me to and its grown alot since i bought my first set of fake unprotected TF Flames.
I also see eye to eye with you on these 2600mAH cells being as good as 2900/3100 mAH cells when it comes to useful light. I know id like to see some actual physical tests that uses the same light and a Lux box and a timer. And then come up with how much more you pay for a few extra minutes of light all that extra money gets you. If its over 5% id be very surprised. Only 2 cell regulated lights would be the only place 2900/3100mAH cells would be slightly worth it.
But ive not been around long enough to have personal experiance, But by theory i feel thats how it would go.
Seriously for us hobbyists with batteries, when was the last time that we really had a chance to run it down to the bottom other than for testing? Usually we'll just charge top it up after some usage....."brighter" is the thinking (I'm not saying that all the lights are indeed brighter, but for some like Ultrafire U-80 XM-L it indeed would be brighter if you keep it topped up like after 40% used coz the current drops and its quite visible). All the good cells are capable of 3-4A depending on the light...all are great cells.
So my advise is just to get NCR18650 or 3100s for those really demanding lights like Sky Ray 3xT6 which is regulated so they hover at nearly 4A just before cut-off. For all other lights TF Flames - Solarforce V2 - Hi Max, all are ok.
Ill admit i never come close to running a cell empty, And always have spares on hand.
To me the extra run time with a dimmed light is kinda useless as i would change it out just as i would the lesser capacity cell, Which by the 3 amp discharge tests happens at almost the same time.
In an unregulated light, Most high cap cells would be brighter and last longer. But in a regulated light the cells would be really close in regulated run time and then the higher cap cells would keep working much past that point.
Thats all in theory of course, And i have no doubts the 2900/3100 cells do have alot more benefits than i make it sound like. Its just to me they aren't worth 3x-4x the price per cell. Then you also have lifetime longevity which can easily pay for its self in a quality cell if it last 3 years and a cheaper cell only lasts 1 year.
Now I havent opened up either a HI-max or an Xtar 2600 But I do have both cells and have tested them. I think the Hi-max is probably the best value cell on the market but I wouldn't say its a high end battery. I have not seen them advertising it as a re-badged name brand cell. At this price I would think its a high quality China made battery. This is from another of my posts...
"Just in, since my new charger is just sitting there I decided to do some 5A discharge tests. Not that many people are going to push these cells quite so hard. I figured it would be fun to see what they can do. 2.8v cutoff
XTAR 2600 = Connection brake at 13 min (i'm guessing the PCB kicked in probably not a bad thing really)
HI-MAX 2600 = 2273mah
In all my testing the HI-MAX has been 100-200mah higher than the Xtar 2600's.
XTAR 2600 Resistance = 136 mOhms
HI-MAX 2600 Resistance = 162 mOhms"
It's pretty common knowledge that a lot of the China made batteries have a fairly short working life. So I wonder if the Hi-max will stand the test of time?
Hi bro, not sure which part of my post are you referring to. Like what Dasfriek said immediately after my post, he got what I was trying to say, most of us would just charge up the cell after a certain good period of use. And certain lights like higher draw XM-Ls at high mode would definitely be brighter if they are at the upper end of the charger. Eg my UF-980L/U-80. At the lower voltages, the current measured at the tail definitely drops from what I always measured. Just like that.... It's not my logic or any technicality, it's just human preference.
Its the same for my photography jobs - I don't wait for them to run dry before charging...not that they suffer from any performance degradation of course.
Of course I do appreciate the longer run times once in a while.....
Personally i think each point is arguable as it all depends on many factors and most of them being the driver and how its set up. You may have a light that boosts amps once voltage drops below 3.3v, or it may go too DD. You would want the 2900/3100 with the boost circuit and the 2600 with the DD so you know its time to swap cells.
And from the power curves ive seen and made myself from testing on my equipment, Both cells will hit the 3.3v regulation change point at the same time. That is if its set to 3.3v, I just say that as i have a light that does it there. If the light goes into DD i don't want either cell in the light imo, The light will dim unless you have spare cells. But a boost circuit would make the 2900/3100 worth it as the 2600 would be out of juice even for that.
Lastly is long term reliability, There is a reason besides the mAH why some cells cost so much. Id feel safer owning AW cells rather than the HiMax cells if i had to depend on them for 3 years. So i see no right or wrong choice on this as long as its quality cells that meet their listed specs and deliver the amps. Its up to the buyer as to what benefits he or she prefers.
One point i dont agree on is what 2100 said about and XM-L being brighter on a fully charged 2900/3100 as the initial drop is the same as long as its a quality cell. The Reverend Jim Panny 2400mAH i have with a 4.20v charge hit with 3amps looks the same as a 2900/3100 test. This is cell quality related and not mAH related. My TF Flames will droop more as described tho, Again its quality of how the cell handles higher amp draw.
Ok, perhaps I worded my sentence incorrectly or it's something else, think I am mistunderstood here.
Eg I have 2pcs of Solarforce V2 2400mAH now. One is 3.9V and the other fully topped up 4.2V fresh off the charger. On my UF-980L, the 4.2V gets 2.99A. The 3.96V partially depleted cell gets me 2.5A.
Lux 3160 and 2760 respectively (just take the lux as a basis for comparison). <- The light did not move or turn at all, i used neodymium magnets to suck out the batteries and the tripod which i use for securing my lasers.
I see what your saying, But thats due either to direct drive or not so good driver regulation. Thats my opinion,no scientific facts on my end. :)
Imo the driver is what makes a light a good light or a junker. It affects the light much more than the batteries ever will. But my thing is this, A 2900/3100 high quality cell like AW and Panasonic has all positives except the high price with the addition of a longer life.
But the med-high quality 2400/2600 cells can do all the same things as the other cells, Except they lack running dimmer longer with a direct drive light. And also can miss out on good run time if a driver has a good boost circuit, But that wont last long as it drains the cell even faster than if it were DD. And then there is always the question of lifetime longevity which is usually unknown unless its made by a quality manufacturer.
But for people who run their cells to only 75% and swap in new cells will not see any difference between a 2400/2600 and a 2900/3100 cell. And since were talking about one costing 5$-$6 compared too $14-$20 a cell. So for what i give up, which imo is very little as long as the cell is made of good quality id take the lesser priced cell every time.
Ill say now this is just my opinion from research and experiance and experimenting, And every cell and light is never the same as the next one. So a person should do what they feel fits there needs best and not what someone says they should use. Not that you did, But im talking about that other forum that don't know anyone else makes cells except AW.
It's not my logic or any technicality, it's just human preference.