I’m concerning about a topic recently, a flashlight-buying ability comparison in different countries.
Let’s say Alex is a university fresh graduate in Malaysia with monthly salary of RM2.5k (this translated into about $781 only) in Malaysia and he wants to purchase a flashlight, say a Fenix TK61 from online which costs around $160. With only $781 monthly income to buy a $160 flashlight that is about 20% of his salary!
Now Chris is a university fresh graduate in USA with monthly salary of $2.5k (is this number make sense over there?) and he wants to buy the same Fenix TK61. With $2.5k monthly income to buy a $160 flashlight that is only 6.4% of his salary!
Everything sold online are listed in USD, and now we can see that people living in USA have advantages in buying things due to their currency exchange rate and of course higher living standard.
Now would USA welcome me to migrate there so that I might be able to buy more flashlights?
Well yes and no. The average income is relevant. Costs of living also relevant. For example, Im told that decent healthcare in the US can cost as much as $1000 per month (I was told $1500 was not out of the question). Then maybe the US fella lives in an expensive rent state/city. Its all relative. But yes, if you live a country with less opportunity, and lower wages, the TK61 and the likes arent really aimed at you. They are made with people who have disposable income in mind. Something many on the planet do not have.
just like flash clothing and shoes, jewelery and electronics, and a wealth (pun intended) of other things.
Not saying its the same thing, some people struggle to eat let alone own luxuries. But there is disparity among people within the US too. Some people work two jobs, and are still poor or at least struggle.
Comparing income vs flashlight prices does not show the whole picture. You really need to compare disposable income. And that will vary a lot between people no matter what country they are from.
I think ryansoh3 nailed it. +1 to quote below.
[quote=ryansoh3]
The higher the cost of living, the more $$ you will earn (generally), and when international currency is involved, it usually means more flashlights.
[/quote]
Moving into USA would hardly be an answer, unless you know you’d get a well paid job from there. That Chris from USA might have HUGE debts from paying for the education, and living is more expensive there too. So he might not make enough money to buy the TK61 either.
It’s interesting that some members brought up the consideration of disposable income. Let me give some examples of our daily living expenses.
Let’s take Alex as the example again, and let’s say his monthly income is RM2500.
A Big Mac costs RM9 in Malaysia (how much does it cost in USA though?).
A large size of Starbucks coffee cost at least RM15 in Malaysia (again I’m curious about how much does it cost in USA?).
An average meal costs RM4~5. In the capital city it is normal to have at around RM6~7.
A Toyota Corolla Altis costs around RM120-130k.
A visit to a private hospital for normal flu consultation/treatment costs RM200 and above.
With the monthly income of RM2500 we feel the pressure to cover all the living expenses, thus the disposable income of ours is still very less. Yes, I understand what the other members say, that living in a developing country (like my country) with low income the living expenses should be low as well… NOPE, this is not the case at least in my country. Our living expenses are high (refer to the examples above and they are still increasing, thanks to our almighty government) and whatever we want to purchase from international online stores everything is listed with USD… it’s like everything is triple-priced to us!
The price of TK61 is $160, to us it is RM512 (remember Alex’s monthly income is only RM2500).
To Americans, it is still $160 (Chris’s salary is 2500 too… but in USD!).
I can also understand that USA citizens have their living difficulties and struggles too. I am not trying to compare “who is worse” here but if we look at the currency exchange rate it can possibly make a big difference in some cases (like buying flashlights). This is one of the main reasons why a lot of Malaysian citizens are rushing over to Singapore to work there - because their currency value is much higher than ours, we work there and spend in Malaysia, it’s like increasing one’s salary 2.5 times immediately! By the way, mind to share with me what is the average monthly salary for a fresh graduate degree holder in USA? How much is it for engineering related degree?
I think a Big Mac is a little more expensive here, but not much.
As others say, things can be more expensive here, but that also creates lots of money to cut back and free up money.
If you have almost no disposable income thanks to paying $1500 a month for an apartment, get a roommate and suddenly you have several hundred dollars free every month.
There were oil workers in the Williston area that were making ~$90k, but using most of it on overpriced housing and food...and drugs too, but that's another problem. Then there were other workers in that area living out of their vehicles, and banking lots of money in a short amount of time.
Canadians near the border cross into the United States because dairy products are that much less expensive.
Adjustments in diet can often free up lots of money too.
Even driving differently can free up a couple hundred dollars a year.
Then there's job opportunities available here that aren't available in many countries, even when it's working online. Some people could manage their time better and make money during time that would otherwise be unproductive, like while taking public transportation. A blog or book written by an American is probably going to make more money than someone in your country. There's a few folks on reddit's vandwellers subforum that make most of their money that way.
I could probably sell some of my unused junk on craigslist (online classifieds) and make RM2500 for a few months. Some people even make a full time job of buying and selling via craigslist.
Basically, the little things people in a richer country do will free up more cash than if the same thing were done in a poorer country, assuming wages scaled.
A GT86 is about 25grand in US. About 75 grand in Norway. That car is easier to buy that car in the US than in Norway. Thats mainly due to "bad fuel efficiency". Which in most places in the US is considered good efficiency. :p And then there is gas prices, which seems dirt cheap in the US. So its funny for us to hear Americans complain gas prices. :D
The above examples may have been more extreme. Everything is not that expensive here compared to the US. Like electronics and such. Living standards are generally higher here though.
Needles to say. Lights from China are really cheap in comparison to everything else here.
There are pros and cons to everything. Usually there are more pros living in a rich country. I would certainly say so. But there can be pros living in "poorer countries" as well. Just as an example, with the right education you could be offering services through a computer to other 1st world countries while living very cheaply where you are located.
A friend of mine could be doing his previous job from a computer in Malaysia just as well as in Norway. But if he was living over there. Lets just say he could have bought a lot of TK61`s on a monthly basis with all the disposable income he would have after usual living expenses.
On a sidenote. A TK61 can be bought for close to 130$.
If you buy that Fenix flashlight that costs $160, you end up paying $301 for it:
35% tax on international purchases: $ 56
50% tax when it comes to customs: $ 80 (*)
Storage fees: $ 5
And you can only buy twice a year.
(*) The first purchase of the year has a $ 25 discount on this tax.
BTW, my monthly salary is much less than 1k
PS: Those are the prices I pay if I buy at international sites.
If I wanted to buy here, at Argentine online stores, numbers would be very different.
I won’t find the Fenix here, but for example, if you’re lucky enough you could find the well-known Sipik SK68 for about $30 (when it’s about $5 at Chinese stores)
That TK61, since we’re talking about prices, is $247 today out of the shop in my country. A lot of families live with a lot less here. I personally would not pay that kind of money for it. For $130, maybe.
I think it's all relative more to your situation, than to where you live. Poor people are poor people, rich people are rich people. That never changes. Some say, well you got it made in XXX country. That might be true, but I don't see it. I make less than $1200 per month take home. I have no health care, vacation time, holidays or any of that stuff. Never an increase, no extra pay and I see that a lot in the USA. People just don't talk about it. There are way more people in the USA, in the under $15000 a year wage, than in any other wage bracket.
I know in some countries it is much worse! I doubt the average Chinese person can afford to buy a $5 light. I know it is that way in many countries.
The disparity between the have and have not people is huge and it continues to increase. It always will, but I do know that in many countries, even with a "good salary", it is hard to buy things like flashlights locally or internationally due to the excessive costs and taxes.
I am very lucky that I do not have to pay any fees for incoming products. If I did, I would not be doing this. The average light (metal light, not plastic), in Wal-Mart this year is $50. I would never ever buy one for any reason.
If I did not have access to "cheap hosts", I would not be here. Maglites are too expensive any more to mod.
I know many of you in other countries have it much worse.
Just want to point out- I was shopping waisting some time over the weekend at the local cutlery store who also happen to be a fenix and nitecore dealer, to walk in to the local shop and buy a TK61 here in the good ol’e USA would cost me $240 + 7.75% sales tax…
A single 2600mAh nitecore rebranded 18650 was $16 + tax. Point is nowhere is it cheap to buy local be it in store or via locally based shipping, it’s always going to be cheaper to order from china.
I’m glad to read so many constructive inputs. But again I’m not comparing who live an easier life, who earn more or rich and poor people, instead I’m comparing the flashlight purchasing power of the people with the same level of income. When an American thinks buying a $200 flashlight is expensive, for us who are living in Malaysia when I spent my hard earn RM200 I can only buy a budget level flashlight. The ratio of flashlight’s price to one’s salary is what I’m talking about.
As for the Toyota GT86 it costs RM243k in Malaysia. With average income (say RM2500) we can definitely own this car, in dream.
The price of Maglite in Malaysia is also around $48~60. Again when it is converted into our currency it has become RM150~200+.
Considering a Maglite sold at $60 (RM192),
With $2500, Chris is capable to buy 41 Maglites.
With RM2500, Alex is only capable to buy 13 Maglites.
The currency itself makes a big difference here. No government tax or shipping cost are considered in this case.
Just to give you some idea, RM2500 is about the average starting salary of a engineering bachelor’s degree holder in Malaysia. Since nobody provide me the information, as I search in the internet the average starting salary in US is $62k per annual (~$5k/month), now that is high. http://www.naceweb.org/about-us/press/bachelor-degree-starting-salary-rises.aspx
I know there are people with relatively low income in every country in the world, people struggling with living in every corner of the world and 1st world countries may offer better and more opportunities than the 3rd world countries do, but that is another story and concern. I feel sorry to TomasVarnik and cpfdaniel that you guys have to buy the same light at much higher price, but that is due to the taxation (local government policies), not by the currency exchange rates. I don’t know what currency do you use in your country but imagine if your currency is smaller than USD then you will have the problem as I mention earlier.
I see a lot of US retirees living here in Leyte, Philippines. They receive their pensions in US dollars and spend it here in the province areas - not in the big cities like Manila and Cebu - to take advantage of the very low cost of living. That way, their pensions, which could hardly be enough when spent in the US, would make them live lavishly when they spend it here. $1200 (54,000 peosos) net a month like OL’s might just be enough to make ends meet in the US but here in Leyte where the minimum wage is less than $170 (7,650 pesos) a month, that amount is huge. Add a good Filipina wife/ personal secretary/ care giver and they’ll live like kings for the rest of their lives.
I used to be an Army Officer earning about $550 a month and my family lived in Cebu City, which has a higher cost of living than that of Leyte. My salary then was just enough for my family composed of a wife and a son. Of course I was not into flashlights yet and I don’t think I can afford to collect lights with that salary either.
When I transferred to a private company (Power Generation) in 2005, and relocated my family to Leyte, that’s when I tasted a ‘better’ life. No we did not change our lifestyle but earning more than 4 times my previous salary allowed us more flexibility like better education for my 2 kids and bigger monthly savings. And of course I can now spare some for flashlights - maybe not a TK61 which I have no plans of buying, ever - but some decent good performance flashlights recommended by members of BLF.
I think no matter what your income is, wherever you are located, and whatever the rate of your currency is, as long as your lifestyle doesn’t compel you to spend more than what you earn, you’ll be fine.
Ok, what about 1 advantage that the Chinese have over Americans in purchasing power? The ability to send things using our postal service (once it reaches our USPS system) at a much cheaper rate than it costs us to send things within our own country.
That’s true for almost any country. China can send almost anywhere in the world cheaper than local…
I’m a US engineering graduate, back when I graduated the average starting salary in the US was $4.1k. I returned back where my salary was about $400. LOL… crazy difference. But I guess that’s what it takes to serve our own country.
Don’t even get me started on our car prices. I took 13 years loan to pay off a subcompact car, close to RM100k ($33k) total. One that normally cost around $12k in the US.
Malaysian household debt stands at 87% earlier this year. We’re dug pretty deep in. So, in our example, the disposable income is much much lower. That’s why you’ll be seeing us buying mostly $5-$10 budget lights.
Holy crap for $33k you get a nice BMW here. In 13 years that car is ooold. Cars are not much worth it, better to buy second hand, the depreciation in the first year is something like 30%.
