Mini review of an LED ceiling light fixture, no bulb required

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dchomak
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Mini review of an LED ceiling light fixture, no bulb required

I was in Home Depot today and having a bad time. Had some time to kill while I waited for a manager that might resolve an issue I had. I was already in a bad mood as I walked around the store waiting, so I thought I would take it out on this LED light fixture.
Here it is.

That’s a $30 fixture with integrated LED, no bulb required, marked down to $20 because of the subsidy that the State of Connecticut provides. You know, trying to get us to be green. I think it’s ironic that they throw around our hard earned “green” trying to help us to BE green Wink
Well, because I was in such a bad mood, I thought I would try and pick apart what I was standing there looking at.
Here goes.

I stood there just looking at the box and I just started to see all kinds of things that just got me going.
Upper left hand corner, the logo and name. “EnviroLite” with 2 green leafs popping out of the logo. Gimme a break, will ya?

Notice the picture of the globe and the line “Save Money, Save the Planet” Yep, they actually said “Save the Planet”

Pure GreenSpeak! How “Gore-esque”

The lower right hand corner proclaims “SAVE up to $675” But lets look at the fine print!

They come to the $675 figure based on an energy savings of $625 over the life of the fixture. They also figure a $50 savings in replacement light bulb savings.
I won’t argue the $50 in replacement bulbs, an incandescent fixture would probably go through 25 bulbs during the lifespan of this fixture (perhaps 23 years) That 23 year figure pops up everywhere.
What isn’t mentioned is at the end of life, the whole fixture has to be replaced, remember this does not contain a replaceable LED bulb. That means another fixture has to be purchased (let’s use todays unsubsidized price of $30) AND the cost of hiring an electrician to wire in the new fixture. His charge today would probably be around $150.
But wait there’s MORE.
Look carefully at the fine print and you will see that their energy calculations are based on a fixture using 2 – 60 watt incans. This fixure provides 848 Lumens, 2 – 60W icans would provide 1680 Lumens! Why would they do that???? You be the judge!

848 Lumens for this fixture

Labeling on a package of 60W Incandescent bulbs

OK, now that I got that out of the way, lets do a tear down!
BTW, don’t forget I’m in a BAD mood, mad at Home Depot, mad at the “Greenies”, mad at the whole world. And after reading the box as I described above, there is NO WAY I would ever buy this fixture. Regardless of the quality, I would never buy from such a deceptive company.
So how to do a tear down without actually buying the light?
Easy, do it right in the store!
I forgot to take a pic of the globe, but it was glass. It was actually quite nice. It was frosted for better light diffusion.
There are 5 boards, each with 8 SMD type LEDs for a total of 40 LEDs. All mounted onto that silvery metal fixture. That should provide plenty of heat dissipation and help the longevity of the LEDs. Remember they need to last 23 years.

Here is a closeup of one of the boards

There is a constant current driver in the center of this fixture, let’s have a closer look at that.

When I first saw that, I wondered it THAT would last 23 years. I’m guessing it won’t.
But wait, look at the ratings!
The output is 20V – 33V at 500mA. 33V at 500mA is 16.5W, that is where they get the 16W figure here.

What they don’t mention is that 16W is the output from the driver, the fixture probably consumes 21W!
Not a fair way to compare.

Actually, I liked the light, but like I said, I was in a bad mood.
I feel much better now………

Edited by: sb56637 on 09/02/2017 - 12:43
FlashPilot
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The problem with the guarantee in all of these cheap chines built SMD LED’s is that they only have to work up to the time frame and don’t guarantee the lumen output… which tends to drop off quite sharply after any sustained use. I doubt they are nichia’s or similar quality. It’ll be interesting to see how bright they are after a year or two. The dollar per lumen/watt will be very high after you factor in the purchase price. To date at the consumer level, its still hard to beat the break-even with the 50 cent CFL, which has greatly improved in both light quality, efficiency and longevity.

dchomak
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FlashPilot wrote:
The problem with the guarantee in all of these cheap chines built SMD LED’s is that they only have to work up to the time frame and don’t guarantee the lumen output… which tends to drop off quite sharply after any sustained use. I doubt they are nichia’s or similar quality. It’ll be interesting to see how bright they are after a year or two. The dollar per lumen/watt will be very high after you factor in the purchase price. To date at the consumer level, its still hard to beat the break-even with the 50 cent CFL, which has greatly improved in both light quality, efficiency and longevity.

Yes, and I forgot to mention that the warranty for this “23 year” light is only 3 years.

And that in the energy use comparison, the use of 2 – 60W incans is mentioned only in the fine print but the 120W that they would use is screaming at the potential buyer in a prominent location on the box. Of course those 2 – 60W incans would produce twice the lumens of this unit.

Actually that should read “Uses only 21W instead of 60W”
There, I fixed it for them Smile

totilde
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Does Home Depot have any kind do feedback email address or so? Try sending the link to this thread, to see their answer

Mooooooo

DavidEF
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totilde wrote:
Does Home Depot have any kind do feedback email address or so? Try sending the link to this thread, to see their answer

Well, HD doesn’t produce this luminaire and probably doesn’t know about the inconsistencies in the labeling versus reality. I’d still like to hear what they say. But I’d rather get the manufacturer on the line. Anybody feeling froggy and wanna take a jump at this?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

hank
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Did you check to see if that “UL” label is honest?

Here’s what to look for: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/services/programs/anticount...

It has the same model number as some “EnergyStar” fixtures, but different power rating:
https://esstaging.sradev.com/productfinder/product/certified-light-fixtu...

Ejected Filament
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DavidEF wrote:
totilde wrote:
Does Home Depot have any kind do feedback email address or so? Try sending the link to this thread, to see their answer

Well, HD doesn’t produce this luminaire and probably doesn’t know about the inconsistencies in the labeling versus reality. I’d still like to hear what they say. But I’d rather get the manufacturer on the line. Anybody feeling froggy and wanna take a jump at this?

Let me see if I can save you the trouble.

Quote:
Hello Davidef
We ultimately sorry for the inconvenience this will can create. We laughing like at you for how not right from the claim at the 120. We have returned advices to the CS and ensure will not to keep happened. Please to happy and buy confidence to be best product in market of lights. We can lol at silliness of 120. Much sorry, you will enjoy.

Bob.

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Ejected Filament wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
totilde wrote:
Does Home Depot have any kind do feedback email address or so? Try sending the link to this thread, to see their answer

Well, HD doesn’t produce this luminaire and probably doesn’t know about the inconsistencies in the labeling versus reality. I’d still like to hear what they say. But I’d rather get the manufacturer on the line. Anybody feeling froggy and wanna take a jump at this?

Let me see if I can save you the trouble.

Quote:
Hello Davidef
We ultimately sorry for the inconvenience this will can create. We laughing like at you for how not right from the claim at the 120. We have returned advices to the CS and ensure will not to keep happened. Please to happy and buy confidence to be best product in market of lights. We can lol at silliness of 120. Much sorry, you will enjoy.

Bob.


Thanks, Bob! I feel much better about buying this light now! Can I get these factory direct with free shipping?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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Free Shipping is $1.93 extra.

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Definitely in series, notice at 6 oclock, no jumper to complete the circuit

Interesting…but sure as heck ain’t worth no $20 (reduced price by government subsidy)

I do like the low profile of the light…but daggumit not for that price especially since the price of LED’s is dropping so dang fast

DavidEF
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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Definitely in series, notice at 6 oclock, no jumper to complete the circuit

Interesting…but sure as heck ain’t worth no $20 (reduced price by government subsidy)

I do like the low profile of the light…but daggumit not for that price especially since the price of LED’s is dropping so dang fast


I think this light might be a good candidate for a mod! If you think about all you’re getting, $20 is probably a fair price, although $15 would be better. I don’t think I’d want it at any price, unless I could upgrade to brighter LED’s. That 848 lumens ain’t near enough for me!

Looking closely at the layout of the top of the boards, they would make more sense as parallel runs. All the LED minuses are in the center, and the plusses point up and down from there. That would make for a lot of extra trace routing if they were connected in series. The boards then look like they are connected to each other in parallel also. But, if everything is parallel, how do we explain the driver rating?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

wight
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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Definitely in series, notice at 6 oclock, no jumper to complete the circuit

Interesting…but sure as heck ain’t worth no $20 (reduced price by government subsidy)

I do like the low profile of the light…but daggumit not for that price especially since the price of LED’s is dropping so dang fast

[voice of authority Wink ] The PCBs are connected to one another in parallel. The missing jumper is not needed for that… On any given PCB the LEDs are setup in 8s1p. This matches very nicely with the PSU’s rating of 20-33v (2.5-4.125v per LED covers almost any emitter they could install, including hot/cold conditions). [/voice of authority]

In terms of the price… I don’t buy a lot of whatever-this-thing-is, but $20-30 seems reasonable for a glass dome, stamped metal thing, and hardware (depending to some degree on quality). If you were purchasing the incandescent version it probably wouldn’t include bulbs at that price… or am I way off base on that?

Also, FWIW, based on size alone I’d assume that the CC PSU included with this thing is probably much better than your typical bargain-brand LED bulb’s PSU. Not to mention that it’s like One Million times easier to replace when it fails (because we know it will).

And yeah, I agree with OP – I dislike all the deceptive marketing on the box. Deceptive is maybe too generous, I’d say that they are lying.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

dchomak
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I had to go back to the store for a second time to try and resolve the issue I had. (they wouldn’t help me out) While I was there, I did a second tear down in the store to get a better pic of the LEDs. Not the best shot but here it is.

wight is right, (Whoa, is wight pronounced “white” Silly ) on both counts. The LEDs look to be wired 8s1p with each 8 LED board in parallel with the others, and yes the manufacturer LIES.

wight, can you tell from my pictures what kind of lighting Home Depot uses? :bigsmile: (private joke)

It seems that much of the “green” industry is at the least deceptive. Here are some pics of “green” incandescents. They are replacements for those power hungry “standard” incandescents that they are trying to wean people off of.

Here’s one, the GE reveal. A “60W incandescent replacement” that “uses 28% less energy”.

Trouble here is that it also produces 33% less light! Only 565 Lumen vs 840 Lumen for the 60W

That was GE, here’s Philips and their false hype. Once again “28% energy savings”, but once again, this one gives off (drum roll please) —— 28% less light! WTF.
oh, I almost forgot, this special bulb is Mercury free! That’s a good thing right? let’s buy THAT one.

Here is one more, this one isn’t half bad. 28% less energy and only 11% less light. That is IF you can believe the Lumen claim. Either that or the poor filament is being pushed so hard that it only lasts a couple of hundred hours.

BTW, ALL of these icandescents cost significantly MORE than the older “standard” incans.

Anywhere there is money to be made……………..

And lastly while I was there I noticed that they now have the Philips 60W equivalents, on subsidy, marked down to $3.97. I would of bought one to test out, but remember, I am mad at Home Depot

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Great info and pics mad man!  Thank you.  HD better shape up.

hank
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These aren’t from green businesses, any more than anything wrapped in your country’s flag is from a patriotic business — these products are “greenwashed” — from any-label-for-a-buck businesses.

No UL registration number on anything in that package either?

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I liked the idea on these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310924296991

LED´s are on a one row strip near the edge.
At least in theory they have good heat dissipation that way.
There is on 8mm clear glass at the leds, then a diffuser glass which can be seen here on pics.
Gives very even light beam.
2 of the big ones are in bathing room, at least enough light in there now. Dunno about savings BUT those cost me 26EUR/piece, locally they cost in here 159EUR/Piece (true story!!!!!)

I don´t know about the power consumption but I do know, that they sell smaller ones as 9W but if you remove the sticker OR look at the driver, they are 6W Silly
So, they cheat to the other way I guess..

I got 30% of money back since 30% of power is “missing” Wink

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Another thing:
Generic weak E27 led bulbs cost here about 15EUR to 50EUR.
I have come across ONE good ones, that cost 10EUR a piece, they don´t have PWM, consume maybe 11W and they really compare to a 60W compared the room by eye.
(maybe, because LED gives light mostly downwards?) Anyway, I´m very surpriced that I can live with these.
These are actually THE FIRST LED E27 replacement, that I give thumbs up and yeah, I´m picky! 8)

Also sold by a Airam brand, so should not be the worst.
here:
http://www.valopilkku.com/fi/Lamput/LED-lamput/12/+LED-+LAMPPU+AIRAM+11W...

Packaging IS STRANGE!!
NO green bla bla, no hype, nothing about energy savings. I did´t by these until a friend recommended Flat Stare

…and yes, they are sold out from almost everywhere in discount boxes, only the expensive (worse) ones are kept on shelf. Maybe better marginals on them?

The most important advantage for me about these LED´s is instant-ON.
For garage (also to kitchen and some other rooms) I naturally bought lotsa CFL tubes for more scattered light distribution and for shear output power. Garage needs also heating, so plenty of lights help on that also 8)

dchomak
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Well, I was in Home Depot again today, and all the lights in the OP were gone. Not just the lights but the whole display, everything. I did make it a point to speak to management about that light (remember I’m mad at HD, and lovin’ every minute of it) so they either pulled them, not likely, or some fool came in and bought every one of them.

Anyway, there is a new light in town. This light is the same size and it too is on subsidy. There were no prices on them, but I scanned it with my Handy – Dandy Home Depot app and it told me that the price was $50 normally but subsidized to $25. The first thing that jumped out at me while looking at the box was the more modest energy savings claim. Only $349 over the life of the fixture.
Also there are no claims of saving the planet.

Claims of 15W LED gives the equivalent of a 90W incandescent.
Wow, this one lasts for 34 years. That certainly is an improvement over “last weeks model” of only 23 years. Boy technology advances a fantastic rate.

But I gotta admit, they are being more honest in the energy savings. This light comes in at 1100 lumen, maybe because it is white, not warm white.

Now if we can believe what we just saw on the box, this fixture gives 1100 lumen vs 848 lumen for the original fixture. As we know from the OP the 848 lumen light claimed 16W but is probably really 21. This light claims 1100 lumen from only 15W.

OK, this sticker says 15.9W

The fine print on how they calculate the savings. Here they say they are using a 75W incandescent, not a 90W as stated elsewhere. ???

Now it’s time for another “in store tear down”. Several employees walked by as I was into it, but they knew enough not to ask if I needed help. It was obvious I didn’t need any. |(
Here are the insides, the driver and the LEDs

Count ‘em, 36, 4 less than the 848 lumen model but they give 1100 lumen. They MUST be drivin harder, but that can’t be because they consume less power. Something isn’t right here. Look closely and you can see that the driver states and INPUT of 15W. The OUTPUT is 38V at 340mA. (12.92W)

A shot of the LEDs

This time I didn’t forget to take a shot of the globe, it’s vinyl, not frosted glass.

Bottom line, this light costs $20 more list, 50 vs 30, has more lumens with less watts, saves less money though, is white, not warm white and looks to be more cheaply made.
I would have to say with all the inconsistencies on the packaging, I would have to say that I couldn’t really believe ANYTHING I read.