Next big mod idea - worth trying?

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Mattaus
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Next big mod idea - worth trying?

Hi all,

As usual my mind is thinking ahead before I've even finished my current project.

Right now I'm thinking of getting a Coroui (or however it is spelt), removing the stock emitter and MCPCB, grinding out the flat shelf in the base of the emitter that surrounds the XML, and making a custom emitter PCB with 9 dedomed XPE2 emitters. They should fit. Drive the crap out of it (custom driver) and see what happens.

Worth a try? Each individual emitter has more throw in it than an XML. 9 of them in a reasonably deep emitter could provide a LOT of usable throw, although it could produce a bit of a messy beam.

Thoughts?

- Matt

pinkpanda3310
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Personally I don’t think throw will be improved. 9 xpe’s will equate to roughly the emitting area of an mt-g2 ??

  

Mattaus
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Yeah that was my initial thought but would the overall surface brightness not be much higher? Zero thought put I to this obviously.

pinkpanda3310
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Possibly but the mt-g2 has a kind of mesh shaped emitting area. This on the other hand will have rather defined points of light. I imagine it would be like the noughts and crosses template, only with really thick lines.

  

ohaya
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Hi,

It’s definitely worth a try, but how would the 9 beams be focused?

Mattaus
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ohaya wrote:
Hi, It's definitely worth a try, but how would the 9 beams be focused?

 

A deep as possible reflector would help. The Coroui may not be the best. Any suggestions on a cheapish host with a really deep reflector?

Mattaus
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Or perhaps like the principle behind the Plight SR96 lots of tight individual reflectors would work better? Then again that particular light uses MKR LEDs which are effectively 4 XPG2 emitters...

DavidEF
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Maybe individual aspherical lenses?

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Mattaus
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Could end up with a pretty ugly beam pattern that way. Each beam would have to be focused and that would result in a horrible pattern at shorter or longer distances - only the one focused distance would look any good.

pinkpanda3310
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Something like a tk61 with a really wide reflector would be best.

  

ohaya
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Mattaus wrote:

ohaya wrote:
Hi, It’s definitely worth a try, but how would the 9 beams be focused?

 

A deep as possible reflector would help. The Coroui may not be the best. Any suggestions on a cheapish host with a really deep reflector?

From the XP-E2 datasheet, 9 x XP-E2 would be 10.35mm x 10.35mm, even if you packed the emitters side-by-side and without any space.

A single MT-G2 emitter is 8.9mm x 8.9mm.

In other words, 9 x XP-E2 emitters would be larger than 1 x MT-G2, so the emitter hole in whatever reflector you use would need to be larger than one for an MT-G2.

I don’t know how focused the XP-E2s are, but I wonder what the composite beam would look like without any reflector (e.g., a mule) as you suggested?

Mattaus
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I imagine it'd just be all flood. Any emitter , no matter how small, is all flood without an emitter.

My theory - however loose - is that 9 XPE2s in a single reflector would throw much better than a single MTG2. Zero maths or even any doodles to back that up with of course.

Probably rubbish lol

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Mattaus wrote:

Could end up with a pretty ugly beam pattern that way. Each beam would have to be focused and that would result in a horrible pattern at shorter or longer distances – only the one focused distance would look any good.


Excuse my newbie ignorance. Would obfuscating the lens to blur the individual beams into one help any?

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ohaya
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Mattaus wrote:

I imagine it’d just be all flood. Any emitter , no matter how small, is all flood without an emitter.

My theory – however loose – is that 9 XPE2s in a single reflector would throw much better than a single MTG2. Zero maths or even any doodles to back that up with of course.

Probably rubbish lol

We won’t know until you try :)!! Maybe someone here could machine a reflector with an emitter hole and flat area around the emitter “array” that you’re proposing? I think I’ve seen threads where people have machined their own reflectors.

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I would assume they lose the benefit of small surface area, made worse by the fact there is wasted space between each emitter. Effectively it would be worse than an MT-G2 if the theory is correct regarding emitter surface area and throw, if they wre arrayed like a single emitter.

9 in a multi reflectored light would yield more light (more emitters) but less throw (smaller reflector area per emitter) anyway. Would be easier to use less XM-Ls for same effect I would think.

Mattaus
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The coroui that fastech sells looks as if it could house the emitters. I'll probably buy one to play with anyway because they are cheap enough. 

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Have you seen gtamzing’s mkr build?

  

Mattaus
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pinkpanda3310 wrote:
Have you seen gtamzing's mkr "build?":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/23850[/quote]

Lol I was about to say no and then I looked at the thread and realised I was the last person to comment. Wonder why it was never finished?

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Lol, I missed that bit too Big Smile I wonder if it was the battery issue made it land in the ‘too hard basket’?

  

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I hope the host is ordered. I've booked a new thread for you. Hurry up. 

 

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I have also seen that a 9 XM-L reflector might fit in the big head CORfsdfsdf.....

Even 9 XM-L de-domed would outthrow an MT-G2 in a similar sized head as far as my experience goes with smaller setups. 

Ive had a project "sitting" for about a year (aka being delayed due to more interesting projects and lights) 5 emitter reflector with 4 XP-E2s and one XP-G2 or XM-L. Have not tried it yet.

Ive got good experience with XP-G2s (domed and de-domed in multi-emitter setups)

Depending on your drive current, I would consider XP-G2s. But please do XP-E2s and take beamshots, that way we can all see how it compares with some other lights.

I dont see how the beam should look bad as long as the emitters are properly focused. XP-G2s and XP-E2s work nicely in small multi-emtiter reflectors. That is, if the reflector is decent.

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I am not getting it, partly because in the OP I think you called the reflector 'emitter'. So you want to use the stock big reflector of the Courui and put 9 dd xpe2's at the bottom of it? If that is the case, it will be very disappointing: throw happens by light emitting surface really close to the center of the reflector, move away from there and it will dramatically decrease. A single well driven xml2 emitter, even with dome, will probably outthrow the 9 xpe2's spread out over the large area.

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XP-E2’s will only make their magic at maximum drive current. Anything less than maxed out and you are looking at a surface brightness than another LED could rival (if it was maxed out). You will not be able to use an OSHPark board for this, the thermal resistance will be much too high. (Surface brightness will fall due to heat). I think the only way to do it is with copper strips with some soldered to an underlying sheet of copper and others insulated from it. The XP-series LEDs are quite small, making something like that would be difficult or impossible for me. I guess if you very carefully delaminated an OSHPark PCB and cut out the thermal pads – this also sounds like it would be difficult / impossible for me to do properly on that scale.

I’d think you’d use a 3s3p arrangement in order to get the tightest spacing. That’s 6A at 10V or something (I don’t know the Vf) – a pretty mean demand for a host that holds 3×18650.

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The heatsinking on the pill isn’t the best. You’ll probably need to fabricate a new thicker LED shelf as well that would wick the heat away. However, once you have enough mass hitting the inner side walls of the thing, it should be able to handle the heat.

ohaya
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djozz wrote:

I am not getting it, partly because in the OP I think you called the reflector ‘emitter’. So you want to use the stock big reflector of the Courui and put 9 dd xpe2’s at the bottom of it? If that is the case, it will be very disappointing: throw happens by light emitting surface really close to the center of the reflector, move away from there and it will dramatically decrease. A single well driven xml2 emitter, even with dome, will probably outthrow the 9 xpe2’s spread out over the large area.

We (including myself) have been talking about reflectors, but I wonder if maybe some TIRs would work? In particular, for 9 emitters, maybe 3 Carclo narrow triples, arranged triangularly?

EDIT:

So take 3 of these:

http://www.illumn.com/leds-drivers-optics-mcpcbs/20mm-triple-xp-g-mcpcb-...

along with 3 of these:

http://www.illumn.com/carclo-10507-10-0-mm-lens-front-narrow-array.html

and arrange the 3 in a triangle?

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ohaya wrote:
djozz wrote:

I am not getting it, partly because in the OP I think you called the reflector ‘emitter’. So you want to use the stock big reflector of the Courui and put 9 dd xpe2’s at the bottom of it? If that is the case, it will be very disappointing: throw happens by light emitting surface really close to the center of the reflector, move away from there and it will dramatically decrease. A single well driven xml2 emitter, even with dome, will probably outthrow the 9 xpe2’s spread out over the large area.

We (including myself) have been talking about reflectors, but I wonder if maybe some TIRs would work? In particular, for 9 emitters, maybe 3 Carclo narrow triples, arranged triangularly?

EDIT:

So take 3 of these:

http://www.illumn.com/leds-drivers-optics-mcpcbs/20mm-triple-xp-g-mcpcb-...

along with 3 of these:

http://www.illumn.com/carclo-10507-10-0-mm-lens-front-narrow-array.html

and arrange the 3 in a triangle?


I’d like to see that. But, will it all fit in the host that Matteus will be using?

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I got the big head Courui a week ago, very nicely built light with an excellent anodized surface. Feels very polished and professional in hand. The lens is large, much larger than an HD2010 but smaller than a TK61. I’ll double check measurements on it directly.

The reflector has a large flat base to it, might be ideal for what you’re planning. Not ideal for a mod involving a single XM class emitter. In stock form with a hot de-dome mine is doing 190Kcd. Very tight beam profile, surprisingly so.

It’s a nice light, cheap enough, big head, big reflector, multiple cells in parallel for runtime, go for it!

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With room to spare Smile

diameter inside bezel = 65mm, 20mm stars.

Circles in circles here
3×20=60. Got 21 leds handy Silly

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

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it’s not that wide at the shelf where the emitters sit. Tapered head, you can’t bore it that wide.

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pommie wrote:
With room to spare Smile

diameter inside bezel = 65mm, 20mm stars.

Circles in circles here
3×20=60. Got 21 leds handy Silly

Cheers David


Now THAT would be AWESOME!

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My guess: bad beam, no significant increase in throw (compared to a single LED). I'd go for individual reflectors/TIRs/aspherics. 

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