Yes or No! Should I Take an Ice Pick to This Light? Need feedback.

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Ouchyfoot
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Yes or No! Should I Take an Ice Pick to This Light? Need feedback.

I picked up this Wolf Eyes Boxer host for cheap. Its an obsolete HID model that came with no emitter or battery carrier.

 

 

 

I unscrewed the retaining ring and exposed this inner cap that is where the HID bulb fits in. This "cap" is made of plastic and does not seem to be threaded in. I don't know what's anchoring it, but I cant get it out.

 

Okay. Let's look at it from the other end. Looking in from the tailcap, you can see where the battery carrier goes in.

 

I already have it unthreaded, but you can see where the specialized battery carrier has four contact points. I looked it up, and the carrier itself is expensive. I do have several series carriers that I can fit.

 

Here's the interesting part. Beneath the carrier contact, it appears that all the HID electronics are still in the light and sealed with what looks like some kind of liquid bakelite that was poured in and hardened. The wires from the contact ring are going through it.

These electronics take up about two inches in the end of the tube.

 

 

 

So what do you think? Should I say "electronics be damned" and just chip everything out of there with an ice pick and hope god will guide my hand with the aftermath. Just smash it out and hope I can come up with a plan for its soul?

 

Other decisions that need to be made are how I'm going to install the emitter, and what kind.

I was hoping an MTG would fit, but you can see the reflector sits right on top of the wire pads.

Here's a 10mm sinkpad. It's doable.

I could probably grind down a 16mm sinkpad so it would fit right inside the reflector.

 

Anyway folks, I need some guidance. Should I just hack out those "electronics" so there's no turning back, and what emitter and how to mount it.

pinkpanda3310
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There was not one mention of using hid again = that stuff has gotta come out.

  

bushwhacked
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Ice pick it.

P60dropins.com (just a redirect for now)

Halo...
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Ice pick?
Drill !

Ledsmoke
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Did you never consider HID ? Then ice pick it Smile

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

Lightspeed
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I would probably drill a couple holes in the socket to try to twist it free.

Alternatively I might freeze it for a day and then quickly heat the tube and try to drive it out.

Bakelite unfortunately can expand in humid conditions which would make it nearly impossible to remove without your ice pick. If it’s epoxy instead of Bakelite freezing should make it more brittle and, in combination with heating the tube, might help to free it from the tube.

djozz
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Wait a minute, do I miss something? If that reflector is for a HID-lamp the correct focus is way inside the reflector, a led should be on a pillar, and even then, the deepest part of the reflector stays unused.

DBSAR
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i would mod it with a new HID set up as the reflector is designed for the point-of-light source to be suspended probally a 1/2 inch or deper into the reflector. Not sure how well an LED emitter would work of focus well. i can imagine a good 50 W + HID bulb and ballast, and a good custom 3 or 4 18650 cell carrier for it.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

wight
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djozz wrote:

Wait a minute, do I miss something? If that reflector is for a HID-lamp the correct focus is way inside the reflector, a led should be on a pillar, and even then, the deepest part of the reflector stays unused.

  • djozz and DenBarrettSAR already pointed this out, but it’s a pretty important point. The focal point is going to be pretty far forward compared to the LED reflectors you are used to. A podium is necessary for your conversion.
  • I don’t see why it would be Bakelite, the driver is certainly encapsulated in epoxy potting material.
  • They didn’t just pull the bulb and carrier and sell the empty host for no reason. It’s either eating bulbs or it just doesn’t work at all. Either way, there’s no point in salvaging it. I’m not sure how much fun you’ll have with an icepick and epoxy. Maybe the drill or the the freezer will help.
  • The epoxy looks to me like it was poured into the plastic cap – I can see plastic around the edges behind the contact plate. Freezing the thing sounds like a good plan. Failing that I’d tape it up and chuck it in a press (sometimes you can use the drill press as a press) to get the thing out.
  • Looks like you’re going to need a maglite-style heatsink with a driver pocket once you gut the thing…. and a battery carrier with a tail clicky on it?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Ouchyfoot
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Hmmmm. I never considered the focusing, but I think it will be OK. HID bulbs emit light from all sides so they have to be placed high up in the reflector. LEDs only emit light from the bottom. Of course I’ll have to run tests.

I’d hate to put out a lot of money to make it HID only to find the guts don’t work. I’d rather buy a new FireFox. This light was an older version of a now discontinued model. I checked the specs, and an MTG will outperform what this light was rated for. Kind of like restoring a Lada.

I guess I’ll just have to dig the guts out and take it from there. A true hobby project.

AlexGT
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What is the size of the reflector, díameter and depth, you might be able to find one designed for LEDs in that size

wight
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Ouchyfoot wrote:
Hmmmm. I never considered the focusing, but I think it will be OK. HID bulbs emit light from all sides so they have to be placed high up in the reflector. LEDs only emit light from the bottom. Of course I’ll have to run tests.
eh… I really don’t think that’s how it works. Allow me to refer you to all Maglite incan->LED conversions. Note that they all use a podium. Also note that the “Rebel reflector” from LED mags does not require this, that’s because it’s focal point is at the bottom rather than a few MM up. You need the LED to be where the filament was in order for the reflector to focus. HID just has a plasma gap or whatever, but the principle is definitely the same. Since the gap is smaller with HID, I expect the focus to be better.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t do the mod, I’m just trying to help you avoid making something that won’t work right. Planning on a podium from the start is really different from trying to add one after you can’t get the thing to focus. Testing will help you see what we mean though!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

jacktheclipper
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Mummify it with some sturdy tape to preserve the ano and get to hackin' .

And once you get the body tube free of all obstruction , feel free to let out a MUAH HA HA HAAAAAA .

What I do

 

comfychair
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Once you find the focal point you can chop off the base of the reflector, the part that's not needed anymore, instead of using a pillar. I suspect it will be pretty bad with a LED though even when it's in the 'best' location.

Ouchyfoot
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I think I’ll just scrap it. A reflector that won’t work and a hollow tube without a pill isn’t worth the work involved.

comfychair
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So make a 'pill'.

This was done with a hacksaw, file, drill press, & sandpaper:

http://75.65.123.78/srk/Dsc08467.jpg

http://75.65.123.78/srk/Dsc08478.jpg

2" dia 6061 barstock: http://www.ebay.com/itm/360856642037

wight
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I’m not so sure that the reflector won’t work (I’m not so sure that it will either). HIDs are not point light sources, but they are pretty small, like an LED. I would think that the beam would be much better than a lot of incan to LED conversions. (Am I wrong about that?) Plus, the reflector looks like MOP, how bad can the beam be? And comfy is totally right about chopping off the base of the reflector, that’s a great alternative to a pillar. The heatsink assembly still has to get high enough to put the LED into focus, but at least you don’t have to worry about how to thermally couple a pillar to a heatsink/pill combo without a lathe.

This looks like a fun host and I was really tempted to buy the thing myself! Plus, isn’t this size your jacket-pocket sweet spot?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Illuminaria
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Ouchyfoot wrote:
I think I’ll just scrap it. A reflector that won’t work and a hollow tube without a pill isn’t worth the work involved.

I want to see how you solve MT clearance. Heck, comfy just made you a pill!

GL

comfychair
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When you chop off the unneeded part at the base of the reflector the hole automagically gets bigger. Solves several problems at once.

Ouchyfoot
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I decided to have a go at the innards. Things do not bode well. I twisted away with pliers from the top, yanking out a few springs and wires. I finally drilled a hole through and through. 

It's solid all the way through. I don't think I'll be able to clear it. I even took a thick heavy steel rod and tried sledging it from both ends...it didn't even phase it. 

It seemed like a good idea when I purchased it, but I didn't know I was going to run into this immovable plug.

 

 

 

wight
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After drilling a hole clear through the thing, does the material at the top (around the bulb socket. Looks like it has machining marks.) seem to be the same material as the stuff that was poured in from the bottom?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Ouchyfoot
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No, it’s some type of plastic/nylon. I’m assuming the stuff that was poured in is some kind of epoxy.

locusto03
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What about doing something like the cheapy smd led bulb replacements all over eBay, only with Cree led's? I'm picturing a copper/aluminum rod sticking up into the reflector with a few stars mounted around the original focal point. Probably unfeasible, but it would be different.

Ouchyfoot
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I have a plan, but nothing is going to happen if I can’t clear that plug.

comfychair
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Has something changed recently with the laws of physics/chemistry, where heat no longer softens/melts plastic??

Ouchyfoot
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I’ll put that on my list comfy. Do you think I should torch the top end? As a last resort I’ll bring it into the maintenance shop at work.

wight
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Burn’em outta there! Just kidding. Heat sounds good, or freezing it. Or Freezing it and then applying heat to the outside maybe.

Or sitting it under the drillpress and pressing it out?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

comfychair
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I would probably attack it with one of these: http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessories/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=9901

Cut two slots front-to-back so you can break it into two pieces.

Ouchyfoot
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I just hit the plastic/nylon part with a mini torch. It started bubbling and burning like a tire. I have it sitting on the cement, it’s still burning away all by itself. Like a tire fire. I’ll just let it burn and see what happens.

unknown00101
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Things are starting to heat up now. Smile

Ouchyfoot
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It's still burning!

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