Yezl Y3 - a picture breakdown

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boffid
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If the driver has Ipeak=0,25/Rsense, my values would result in 7.5A for MT-G2 and 4.5A for my XM-L2. However, peak value is not same as the average value. Average value depends a lot on ripple in current. I would assume my MT-G2 must have a high ripple ie. average value much smaller than the peak value.

8V total cell voltage to a 7V load (MT-G2 at high current) would be only 4.2A with 3.7A current at tail, assuming 100% efficiency.. With practical efficiency below 100% the average current should be smaller than this of couse. I think 4.2A could be a reasonable value for a very triangular current waveform with 7.5A peak.

If I was really interested on this, I could desolder some wires and measure it with an oscilloscope. However, I’m not. At this point I’m happy with knowing that the average current is reasonably high, the light is bright enough and the led is not severly overloaded (based on average draw at tail and a rough estimate for led current being slightly above it).

wight
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boffid wrote:
If the driver has Ipeak=0,25/Rsense, my values would result in 7.5A for MT-G2 and 4.5A for my XM-L2. However, peak value is not same as the average value. Average value depends a lot on ripple in current. I would assume my MT-G2 must have a high ripple ie. average value much smaller than the peak value.

8V total cell voltage to a 7V load (MT-G2 at high current) would be only 4.2A with 3.7A current at tail, assuming 100% efficiency.. With practical efficiency below 100% the average current should be smaller than this of couse. I think 4.2A could be a reasonable value for a very triangular current waveform with 7.5A peak.

If I was really interested on this, I could desolder some wires and measure it with an oscilloscope. However, I’m not. At this point I’m happy with knowing that the average current is reasonably high, the light is bright enough and the led is not severly overloaded (based on average draw at tail and a rough estimate for led current being slightly above it).

Since you aren’t interested enough to hook it up to a scope, take my word as gold (I have hooked buck drivers up to scopes, including two other QX9920 based drivers last night). Unfortunately your post is mostly incorrect. The formula I posted is for the average, not peak, current. The output waveform is much more like a flat line than a triangular wave.

You are running into the situation I warned about in the last paragraph of my last post in this thread (#239). The driver is unable to reach the current you have set. You could decrease from three R100 to two R100 and see almost no difference (your setup will be unable to make 5A, 7.5A, 10A, 20A, etc – it can only make around 3.8A as you’ve said).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

boffid
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You seem to be absolutely right on that one. I added another cell and with three 26650s it did indeed rise up to 4.2A at tailcap.
That should result about 6-7A for the led with reasonble efficiency assumed. Shocked

No, I did not dare to keep it long for a extended period at that current. I’m not too confident about how much overdrive the driver can handle.

wight
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boffid wrote:
You seem to be absolutely right on that one. I added another cell and with three 26650s it did indeed rise up to 4.2A at tailcap.
That should result about 6-7A for the led with reasonble efficiency assumed. Shocked

No, I did not dare to keep it long for a extended period at that current. I’m not too confident about how much overdrive the driver can handle.

Good sport!

If I were you I’d probably target around 4A with my resistor mod (assuming 4A is what you want!). You should be able to do that using just the resistors you’ve got, and it sounds like you’ll probably want to drop the current for your XM-L2 a little too if you’re worried about overcurrent for that driver (6.1A).

That’s just my suggestion though! (EDIT: if you set the actual desired current you don’t have to worry about how many cells you use in the future)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

boffid
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Changing the resistors for a 4-5A max current crossed my mind as well. I think 4A is quite plenty with a MT-G2. For general use that could actually use a low-low mode in addition to the Hi/med/low it has now.

That being sed, I must first give it a quick try outside just to see the huge amount of light it is able to give. Smile

I’ll keep the XM-L2 as is for the time being. I really like how it throws and I’m not too conserned it it gets sacraficed for the science.

I really love this host even if it is somewhat large.

[edit] Tested it. A real joy to see that amount of light! I guess it kind of “throws” ie. you can see far Smile but it lights up much larger area than any of my other lights. It seemed to start dimming some at about 30s or so at what point I ended the test. No need to destroy this fun toy. (It warms up pretty fast, not hot at that time though. I guess I should have leveled the pill before glueing on the led). I’ll be returning to 4A level I guess.

tryps
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The Y3 is a great light thats for sure.
But I wonder if anyone tried to put this LD34 driver into this light, the stock driver has 22ish mm and that driver has 23,6 according to spec (haven’t seen an exact masurement). It has an on board switch that could fit. It has a voltage range up to 8,4V and uses constant current regulation. The UI is good imo(Convoy L4). You might even change the current with the Key-Set method that “Simon” posted somewhere (Has to be checked). I don’t know if it works with MT-G2 LEDs but CC would be a great benefit. Sould give you great efficency in lower modes.

edit: Whoops just noticed that the stock driver is a 23ish mm driver so that makes the task in hand a lot easier. Might be a perfekt fit, the little knob won’t fit anyways so you either have to drill a hole or just file it of.

grantman321
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Just an update on the modding progress on my two Y3’s…

Both are in 2-cell configuration. Both have the emitters on maxtoch mcpcb’s, shimmed up using flattened copper pipe that’s roughly the same thickness as the mcpcb, with the shims soldered to the bottom of the mcpcbs. One has a dedomed stock XM-L2 – resistor modded with an R100 added (total resistance 0.045), pulling roughly 5A measured at the LED using my DMM (after everything I learned in this thread, it’s now sporting bigger 14ga leads, soldered in place). The throw is pretty good, but I wouldn’t consider it mind-blowing. I haven’t really tested it anywhere I can reach out more than 400 yards (which it hits somewhat easily), though. It’s a rather useful beam pattern – plenty of spill, large-ish hotspot. Seems to be relatively focused (no donut on the wall past about 6 inches out). I do like it a lot more than other ‘throwers’ I’ve built (which is limited to basically a modded C8 with dedomed XP-G2 driven hard and focused well in a smooth reflector). Turns out I really don’t care much for pencil beams. So I like the beam on the Y3 with the dedomed XM-L2. Not crazy about the tint, so it may get swapped out at some point.

Main reason I’m posting is because of my other Y3… I reflowed a higher bin MT-G2 (Q0) where there was previously a dedomed (sliced + LED seal) P0 bin MT-G2. Driver is modded with the R150 removed, and two R100’s added for a total resistance of 0.03913. Measured around 6A on high at the emitter.

The results are… spectacular. This light is freaking awesome. Heat transfer seems to be pretty good, and now that it’s cold outside it’s not getting remotely near ‘too hot’ – Only getting mildly warm. With the other MT-G2 it would get sorta hot after a few minutes when the ambient temp was around 70F, but the head seems to shed heat rather well.

This has instantly become my favorite light. I’ll try to take some beamshots tonight to show y’all what I’m talking about. I’m new to taking beamshots… are there any standard-ish lights out there that would be helpful comparisons? Most all of my lights are modded in some way or another (some more extensively than others)… only lights I have that are currently unmodded are a Nitecore P12, and a mini Mag LED Pro+. Also have a Solarstorm SC02 that has only had a UCL added but is otherwise stock (for now). So if one of those would be helpful, please let me know. I do have two other working MT-G2 lights if that would help – a Convoy C8 with an MT-G2 P0 (brass pill, smooth reflector, AR lens) driven at around 4.5A and a SF L2M with the sliced P0 formerly in my Y3 driven at 3.04A (may be stacking more 7135’s on tonight, it’s feeling weak and needy at 3A). Also, what is more helpful, a longer shot before trees/objects (200 yards) or a shorter one (25 yards)?

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

Tom E
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Dang, g-man, these sound like awesome modded Y3's! Too bad you don't have a light meter to measure throw. I would think your de-domed XM-L2 should be doing over 200 kcd, maybe close to 250 kcd, in that range. Where did u get the Q0 bin MT-G2?

My vote for beamshots would be to do both distances Smile! I've been using UCLp's in the Y3.

grantman321
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Got the Q0 from intl-outdoor. I don’t think I’ve seen the Q0 bin anywhere else yet. I wanted both that and a 16mm noctigon for an MT-G2, so bought the Q0 already mounted from IO, then when it arrived, I pulled both the Q0 and dedomed P0 and reflowed the Q0 onto the maxtoch mcpcb and the P0 onto the 16mm noctigon. So now the dedomed P0 resides in a P60 dropin. The tint is rather warm for my taste with the dome sliced. I didn’t notice any substantial improvement in throw, but it could just be the tint messing with my eyes.

On a related side note, an L2M with the stock 18350/16340 to 18650 extension removed and a longer 18650 extension added it fits two 18500’s perfectly. So the size is pretty darn small (and awesome) for an MT-G2 light. Just not crazy about the tint and output quite yet. I think more power is the solution. Or that emitter may end up living in a mini Mag modded to fit a P60 pill and another MT-G2 altogether may end up in the L2M. Yes, I know I have a problem. Once you start down the modding path, you just can’t stop.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

wight
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tryps wrote:
The Y3 is a great light thats for sure.
But I wonder if anyone tried to put this LD34 driver into this light, the stock driver has 22ish mm and that driver has 23,6 according to spec (haven’t seen an exact masurement). It has an on board switch that could fit. It has a voltage range up to 8,4V and uses constant current regulation. The UI is good imo(Convoy L4). You might even change the current with the Key-Set method that “Simon” posted somewhere (Has to be checked). I don’t know if it works with MT-G2 LEDs but CC would be a great benefit. Sould give you great efficency in lower modes.

edit: Whoops just noticed that the stock driver is a 23ish mm driver so that makes the task in hand a lot easier. Might be a perfekt fit, the little knob won’t fit anyways so you either have to drill a hole or just file it of.

It’s fair to assume that the LD34 may be of higher quality than the stock driver, but the stock driver is a ‘CC’ buck driver. Tom E has seen inside an LD34, maybe he has pictures?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Tom E
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wight wrote:
tryps wrote:
The Y3 is a great light thats for sure. But I wonder if anyone tried to put "this":http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flashlight-driver-Flashlight-cir... LD34 driver into this light, the stock driver has -22ish- mm and that driver has 23,6 according to spec (haven't seen an exact masurement). It has an on board switch that could fit. It has a voltage range up to 8,4V and uses constant current regulation. The UI is good imo(Convoy L4). You might even change the current with the Key-Set method that "Simon" posted somewhere (Has to be checked). I don't know if it works with MT-G2 LEDs but CC would be a great benefit. Sould give you great efficency in lower modes. edit: Whoops just noticed that the stock driver is a 23ish mm driver so that makes the task in hand a lot easier. Might be a perfekt fit, the little knob won't fit anyways so you either have to drill a hole or just file it of.
It's fair to assume that the LD34 may be of higher quality than the stock driver, but the stock driver _is_ a 'CC' buck driver. Tom E has seen inside an LD34, maybe he has pictures?

Sorry, checked my pics of the L4 and didn't have anything on the stock driver. I really don't care for the L4's UI - hate side switch's that can't turn the light ON and OFF, so I'd always want to replace it if I could.

Wasn't aware the LD34 is PWM-less - if so, pretty awesome, but again, lacking an ON/OFF ability is critical to me.

Mitko
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Well, i tried modding my Y3 the same way, but whatever i do i cant pass 3.5 amps with ld 1 driver, too many wires and crossings, and that driver is great! It shines in my c12, yet, Y3 is a way better thrower plus, has way better thermal management

P.S my Y3 default driver is a disaster, 2amp max on a fresh 18650 PF/b/26650 TF( same for all+- 0.1 amp)…and my DMM is Benning..

Tom E
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Mitko wrote:
Well, i tried modding my Y3 the same way, but whatever i do i cant pass 3.5 amps with ld 1 driver, too many wires and crossings, and that driver is great! It shines in my c12, yet, Y3 is a way better thrower plus, has way better thermal management

We need details! Smile. U have a good setup for measuring high amps? Take care of all the high amp issues, like bypasses on the springs, heavy LED wires, good wires between the stock driver and LD-1 piggybacked? Low resistance, high amp battery? Fully charged battery?

I would expect at least 4.5A form the LD-1 in a Y3 with all the details taken care of...

tryps
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Tom E wrote:

Wasn’t aware the LD34 is PWM-less – if so, pretty awesome, but again, lacking an ON/OFF ability is critical to me.

At least it’s what I think it is, in my L4 there is now pwm detectable, via ears and eyes. Don’t have an oszilloscope on my desk sadly.
The inducotor is rather small so I assumed it’s a proper switching driver. But wouldn’t write that in a rock yet.

Yeah that’s how preferences differ from one to another, I like the UI somehow but I get your point about on/off.

But gotta say I love this light, it’s just so good to fit your own needs.

Mitko
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Well, its virtualy the same as your setup, its just the emitter is directly wired to the driver with 20 awg
With the same setup i do measure 5.02 amp on my UF c12( with the same driver…
“good wires between the stock driver and LD-1 piggybacked” this might be an issue, i did by best, yet, 3.5 tops

What could i expect from that ld 34?

I realy like how Y3 fits my Ak103, its like its made for that rifle, fits extremely fine

Btw, is there something Y3 similar with a side button and 17mm by default driver? Like hd2010?

tryps
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LD34 won’t give you any current gain, at least I don’t think it went higher than 3A stock. Just thought it would be good for people like me that are a little annoyed by stock PWM and want to keep 2 cell capability on XM-L2 setup. Some of those LD drivers are able to change current by bridging a set/key pin to ground.

Tom E
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Mitko wrote:
Btw, is there something Y3 similar with a side button and 17mm by default driver? Like hd2010?

--> I like the MaxToch M12, but no side button Frown. Not sure - might be an Olight model out there, but lot more money and I suspect not as good as a modded Y3. Ones I'm familiar with in this size are HD2010, T08, M12 (all tail switch lights). Hhmm, think there's another 2 cell light (longer) out there with a side switch with similar reflector size -- can't recall details... The Courui has maybe an edge on the Y3, but 3 cells would make it heavy, bulky I would think.

tryps
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I think Small Sun ZY-T13 is the one you had in mind with 2 cell no details.

Mitko
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Well, even 2 battery ones are too long and bulky(for my taste), Y3 with a single battery and LD 1 would be great if i do manage to fix it as i should: at 3.5amps its better than Olight Sr52, throws better, has tighter beam, its lighter and dont have that fat body

I have to fight it( the y3) obviously!

P.S i didnt had luck with the default driver too, tweaking it brought nothing, from 2amp to max 2.4, tried r100…r050,even r020

Tom E
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Guess you have no pics, but I'd like the details of exactly how you piggybacked the drivers, what gauge wire you used, etc.

grantman321
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Mitko wrote:
P.S i didnt had luck with the default driver too, tweaking it brought nothing, from 2amp to max 2.4, tried r100…r050,even r020

From what all I did with mine, I’ve learned that with one cell, you aren’t going to see a DMM register over 2.5 or 2.8 no matter what you do. The voltage sag of the battery above 2A plus the resistance of all the components plus the DMM’s inherent resistance is going to drop the voltage to close to or below the forward voltage of the LED and because the Y3 has a cc buck driver, it won’t pull the amps you want as the V-in has to be above V-out for a buck driver to function properly. It’ll require two cells to get over 3A no matter what you do with the resistors. That’s how mine worked, anyway.

If you’re set on using one cell, you’ll have to swap or piggyback the driver.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

grantman321
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As promised… it’s time for some beamshots!

For reference, it’s roughly 30 meters to the shed and roughly 50 meters to two trees at which all the lights are aimed in the middle of the frame.

Control Shot

Nitecore P12

L2M w/ sliced MT-G2 P0 @3A

L2D w/ 3-up XP-Ls @~6A (DD)

Y3 w/ Dedomed Stock XM-L2 @5+A

Y3 w/ MT-G2 Q0 @6A

Mini Maglight LED Pro (… for science.)

And now for a longer shot. Sorry, lots of ambient light around here. Yes, it does actually kinda look like the control shot to the naked eye. No, that is not a creepy werewolf plotting my imminent demise. That’s my dog, Sawyer.

Google says it’s 230 meters to the steeple, and 320 meters to the trees behind and to the right of the steeple from where the light is.

Control Shot

L2D w/ 3-up XP-Ls @6A

Y3 w/ Dedomed Stock XM-L2 @5+A

Y3 w/ MT-G2 Q0 @6A

All beamshots taken with Sony NEX-7 at 10mm (15mm full-frame equivalent), F4, 2.5 seconds, ISO 400, auto white balance.

All in all, the Y3 with the MT-G2 is throwing pretty far considering just how much light and how broad of a beam it’s kicking out. It’s definitely hitting the trees behind the church which are well over 300 yards away. The Y3 with the XM-L2 is throwing much, much further than that. I tried to get the exposure on these as close to reality as possible, and I think they came out fairly accurate, all things (crapton of ambient light) considered.

Let me know what you think. This is now the second time ever I’ve taken beamshots. Pointers for taking better ones always welcome.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

bibihang
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The beamshots are good! Thank you. Beer

nofearek9
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will the LD34 driver fit/work for the y3 flashlight ? anyone tried?

Tom E
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nofearek9 wrote:
will the "LD34":http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flashlight-driver-Flashlight-cir... driver fit/work for the y3 flashlight ? anyone tried?

Well, from my OP, the Y3 driver I measured just under 23 mm while the LD-34 is listed at 23.6mm - maybe it can be filed/sanded down to fit, but the Y3 driver has two bump outs 90 degs off from the switch, while the LD-34 has only one 180 degs off from the switch, so again, some moddind would be needed.

Not sure why you would want an LD-34 in there, but it may be adoptable - not sure...

nofearek9
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i dont want to replace it , i just saw this today and i thought would be a nice alternative if we blow the stock driver.

led4power
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Mitko wrote:
Well, i tried modding my Y3 the same way, but whatever i do i cant pass 3.5 amps with ld 1 driver, too many wires and crossings, and that driver is great! It shines in my c12, yet, Y3 is a way better thrower plus, has way better thermal management P.S my Y3 default driver is a disaster, 2amp max on a fresh 18650 PF/b/26650 TF( same for all+- 0.1 amp)...and my DMM is Benning..

Well,I bought Y3 from CQG group buy,and I was disappointed,very anemic output and lots of scratches/dents.

Also I couldn't get more than 2Amps,no matter which battery I used.Then,I measured led's Vf and guess what,3.7V at 1.8Amp!

Most crappy xm-l2 I've seen. So,if you use stock led in Y3,it's good idea to check forward voltage,because I'm sure I'm not the only one who got crap grade xm-l2.

2nd,when you use LD-1 in lights with >17mm driver place,it's very important where you solder GND wire on LD-1;best place is closest to sense resistor,or even on sense resistor GND pad(if wire is not too thick).This ensures minimum resistance.Soldering wire on gnd ring that's far away from sense resistor can add significant amount of parasitic resistance,since current must flow through the gnd ring to sense resistor.

nofearek9
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what batteries do you suggest ,for use 3×26650 ?
i found this KeepPower 5200mAh 26650 ,if the specs are correct its “small” 6.6 × 2.6 × 2.6 cm ,usually 5000ah batteries are 7+cm lenth

Werner
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your link goes to the imr this is indeed shorter and 67mm could be right but they are unprotected and no real imr(the discharge curves match the normal 5200mAH cell)
it’s plausible that they are a bit shorter than the normal protected 5200 cells which are 71mm

Link to HJKs 26650 comparator

I have the imr4200(best battery available in terms of voltage under current) with the imr wrapper from gearbest and it is 67.5mm

nofearek9
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thanks , you are talking about those ,correct? i believe 67.5 will be fine for 3x use.

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