Knife strop questions;

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light junkie
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Knife strop questions;
Hi all since BLF also has a large portion of busget knfe affectioados I has to aak qhat TN does a leather strope do to a knifes esge I have a Gatco ultra fine ceramic hone and I was told by many people (mainly on the forum)to get that super scary edge I need to on strop if TN so what soesitdois my question and what do I look for in a atrope?I have bwwn looking on ebay and found some but I sont know what to look for, Thanks

Lj

DB Custom
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I use a 3” wide piece of scrap leather, about a foot long. I’ve rubbed metal polish and oil into it, have used it about 15 years, now just a few quick runs over it will keep most any knife I have in tip top ready to go shape.

I like the Lansky hone system for bringing the rough edge up to par, then rely on the leather to keep the daily wear and tear in line.

The old barber shop strait razor strops are fantastic if you can find one. About 3” wide and 3’ long, try searching for one in ebay.

jacktheclipper
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I use the folded edge of a corrugated cardboard box .

What I do

 

Chloe
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It depends on how you use it. Good technique can restore a dull edge or make an already sharp knife scary sharp. You can strop with anything really; paper, newspaper, leather, denim.

Before rushing out and buying one I’d experiment with things you may already have. An old leather belt (grain side), or thick denim are pretty good.

Cereal_killer
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First thing is if you’re needing to strop during resharpening to get the edge sharper you’re not spending enough time on your stones/hones, you should get the knife sharp enough on your hones that a strop wouldnt take it any further. A good strop (or several, I have 5) is great tools to maintain an edge but if you cant get the edge fully refined using just stones you need to spend more time on your technique.

I am a pretty good sharpener, not excellent or a “pro” by any means but I’m more than “just good enough”. here’s a few video’s I’ve made of my CRK small Sebenza CF with S35VN steel I sharpened all by hand. (these were my first 2 video’s ever so they’re pretty bad and only 1/2 on screen lol)

(video 2 more centered)

I sharpen on 6” DMT diamond plates (the continuous surface ones) from XC-EEF [thats extra course threw extra extra fine] then switch to a 8×2” spyderco ceramic stone that started out as a fine stone but I hand lapped it so one side was 3600 grit and the other side is 10k grit. Coming off the 10k ceramic hone it doesnt need any stroping, even using my finest strop wouldn’t provide any more refinement and using a more course strop would actually hinder it.

I have 3 2 sided leather strops (I make all my strop’s out of 2 5gal paint stir sticks glued together) and 2 fully wrapped denim strops The leather ones are the “course” ones (still very fine overall) and have different stick and paste compounds on them. The denim ones have 1, .5 and .25 micron diamond sprays and the final side is just bare denim. I use these for edge maintenance which I do nightly (takes under 2 minutes a night and I can keep the edge push-cutting paper for a couple months before needing to touch stones again)

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Cereal_killer
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This isn’t me but this is a link I have saved and direct anyone that asked me towards, very helpful basic / beginners info:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/963298

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

DB Custom
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CK, That’s SICK! Silly

I just got a Strider clone stupid sharp, like an hour ago. Wonder if it’ll do that….

Ouchyfoot
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A strop will make your blade razor sharp.
Honing on stones is good to bring the knife to sharpness. Really sharp if you’re good.
As you move down in coarseness, the edge will look (under a microscope) serrated. The serrations are jagged and uneven in size. As you get to the fine stone, the serrations begin to be more evenly spaced and uniform in size, making it good for a smooth sharp cut.

Using leathers to finish it off, the serrations get even more even…like a razor blade.
Stropping with bare leather doesn’t really do anything but polish the blade, perhaps straighten some bent serrations after use.

You need stropping compound. The compound is rubbed onto the leather…then you strop. I have a strop for gold compound, which is a little courser, and then move to a strop with green compound which is fine. This will get it wicked sharp.
Red compound (extra fine) which is known as jewelers rouge, will mostly polish the edge.
Get a piece of wood about 2-3 inches wide and a foot long, go to a shoeman and get some leather, and glue it down. (He can do this for you also). I use it with the fuzzy side up.(it gives better bite) you can have fuzzy leather on one side of the board, and smooth on the other.
Get compound and strop! It makes a difference.

DB Custom
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CK, I checked my Strider clone and by gosh if it doesn’t do similar to that with a page out of the phone book! Supposedly a 440 blade, it’s 3/16” thick! I used the 600 stone last in my Lansky kit, then used a strip of leather I have fastened on an old stone to “strop” it on the Lansky. Not quite a mirror finish on the edge, but getting close.

I seem to recall that stropping by hand with a loose strop, barber shop style, will put a convex edge on the blade that is tough and extremely sharp. My Katana is sharpened in this way, not a flat edge coming together but two convex curves meeting in a razor sharp edge the full length of the 28” blade. (similar to the shape of an acorn if imagined in a cross section of the blade.)

light junkie
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jacktheclipper wrote:

I use the folded edge of a corrugated cardboard box .

Jack that’s is what I have just started doing lol and I have noticed a difference in guess I am trying to get rid of the folded over part of the blade and thanks Cera l _ killer Chloé and everyone else’s I just remember I think 8steve88 and xatu mentioned leather stop to get that razors edge .. I mean I can get them sharp enough to shave the hair of my arm and slice through pages of magazine but somewhere I seen video a of a knife slicing through loose sheets of toilet paper .I have found quite a few st ropes on ebay and amazon I just don’t know what the difference is or the technique on how to use either the 3 ‘ barber stops or the Lansky stiles or the various compounds.

Lj

DB Custom
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Even with a Lansky hone that has guides to give you the “perfect edge” you have to develop a technique that works for you. I push the stone/diamond into the blade, never dragging it back. So in a sharpening session like todays, cutting a new edge on both sides of a new blade, it can take hours to recut the bad sharpening job the knife came with. After that it’s easy.

Work on developing a consistent style, and find the proper way to hold the blade, whether fully manual or on a guide, and stick to that. Consistency yields the best results, whatever your style may be.

Edit: I just took this Strider clone to the 3” leather strop with some Wenol metal polish rubbed in and it now has a mirror finish edge that is just too sharp to shave with! It’ll slide under the skin trying to shave.

Ouchyfoot
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You have to love it when it’s stropped sharp like that. I always keep alchahol swabs and bandages nearby.

DB Custom
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LOL

When they’re this sharp you can show it off by sliding it through the hair on your arm about 1/4” above the skin and watch it grab and slice hairs without danger of slicing yourself. I think this is the sharpest I’ve had this level of blade…most of mine are ATS34 or equivalent. Looking hard at that newish ZDP189…

Cereal_killer
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ZDP-189 is amazing as a dress up knife steel but if you do any sort of work with your knife run away. I literally had it chip from stripping insulation off romex. ZDP also rusts (worse even that D2). I recommend M390 as a super high end, high hardness super steel that’s much more rust resistant and a lite tougher. Remember hardness and toughness are two completely different (and opposite) things.

My current favorite steel is M4 like on my spyderco Gayle Bradley but I’m not scared of having to prevent rust, just another aspect of daily knife care.

This was after a 3 hour reprofiling to 18DPS (from factory edge) on my diamond plates when I first got my GB (factory edges are never good enough for me). Both of the raw spots are where I make contact withthe stone to ensure I’m using a consistent angle/stroke and since I flip the blade over, not swith hands to do the other side the same 2 fingers are in contact the entire time.

Btw I sharpen back-n-forth, I don’t lift on the back stroke.

One time I did an 8-3 romex chopping test, M4 of my Spycerco vs D2 of my Benchmade 710 (D2 ain’t no joke either) but the M4 blade still shaved after making 5 threw cuts (took a fair amount of chopping) of the 4x solid strands (8-3 is 8AWG each 3 conductor/1neutral) but the D2 was destroyed, so much so I packed it up and sent it back to BM to let them deal with it lol.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

DB Custom
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I’m a user, will cut almost anything and it’s likely that just about anything will need to be cut. That said, I’m not out there like I used to be. It’s hot as hades here and we sweat. Salty sweat can really get to a blade. So rust resistance is important. But no, I don’t like a hard blade that chips. I can’t stand chips, because while it’s easy to sharpen a blade that’s gotten dull from use, it’s a pita to re-profile a blade with nicks and chips in the edge.

Ixnay the 189. Nuff said there, I’ll fugetaboudit.

M4 huh?

I’ve been carrying an ATS34 Buck Strider mini. The blade is thick, comparatively short, and I like Titanium liners and G10. Gotta have a liner lock, if not a frame lock, as I’ve been carrying them so long now I’d hurt myself with anything else. This Strider clone seems to have a much larger blade, but it’s actually only about a 1/4” longer than the Buck. (3” cutting edge) This one too has a thick blade, so it should be able to take some abuse. And it was only $16.98 shipped. I have no idea how they do it. I also don’t know if it’s 440A or C or 7Cr17Mo or what it is. It’s hardened pretty good, was not exactly easy to sharpen. It’s even got the BOS heat flame stamp on it, but it’s missing the little indention where the machine actually tests it. Go figure.

8steve88
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I use a cheap strop, £2 leather belt from a charity shop, Solvol Autosol or Peek or whatever metal polish you use, spread on the grainy side of the leather belt, strop away.
You can use 12 to 18inch lengths of the belt glued to a piece of timber or use it whole and hook the buckle over a hook or lever type door handle.
Recently I’ve been going for the more toothy edges as I cut Paracord quite a bit and find the tiny serrations of a toothy edge cut better. Dragging the blade across the Paracord it’s better with a toothy edge but a sharpened until shiny edge push cuts better.

EDIT……..I must add that you have to be careful if you are going to strop slip joints or the SanRenMu detent locking knives, dragging the knife spine first over the strop might be enough for the blade to close, it shouldn’t because you don’t need to apply a lot of pressure when stropping but when first starting it’s tempting to push too hard and a slipjoint isn’t meant to have pressure on the spine side of the blade and stay open.

light junkie
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DBCstm wrote:
Even with a Lansky hone that has guides to give you the “perfect edge” you have to develop a technique that works for you. I push the stone/diamond into the blade, never dragging it back. So in a sharpening session like todays, cutting a new edge on both sides of a new blade, it can take hours to recut the bad sharpening job the knife came with. After that it’s easy.

Work on developing a consistent style, and find the proper way to hold the blade, whether fully manual or on a guide, and stick to that. Consistency yields the best results, whatever your style may be.

Edit: I just took this Strider clone to the 3” leather strop with some Wenol metal polish rubbed in and it now has a mirror finish edge that is just too sharp to shave with! It’ll slide under the skin trying to shave.

Want and yes I understand the lifting if the stone on back stroke I guess I am just frustrated because I have been stuck at this level and can’t pass to the next level of sharpness like I believe it was a youtube video of a mora fixed blade slicing through sheets of toilet paper effortlessly.

Lj

DB Custom
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That is not an easy thing to accomplish and quite rare. The right combination of blade design, blade steel and expert sharpening techniques is a difficult combination to achieve. Very few will ever get to that level.

Can you completely and totally disassemble and reassemble your Glocks? Can you make the Glock have a 3 1/2 lbs trigger pull? Once upon a time I achieved that, wasn’t easy, and I was told very few Glock armorer’s could do it. I certainly wasn’t a Glock representative! But I had friends…

The point being, there are skills that few master, and sometimes it’s just impossible for others to duplicate what might come naturally to another individual. Cereal Killer has found a way to create an incredible edge. And he’s admitted it takes hours sometimes, with advanced techniques. Keep on keeping on and perhaps you will find yourself doing things you never dreamed possible.

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I can vouch for CK’s knife skills, he elmered me a big ol honkerin’ blade…sharpest thing I own…

Oh CK, my bro in law can get those drilling well collar hardened steel plates (they use them in the well and use to lock the collar under ground in the rocks and angle the pipe over) very very

rotary slip wooley I think is what they call em

Back side is flat and hardened steel, can these be used to sharpen a knife…I need someone to teach me to keep my knives sharp…I can sharpen somewhat but not like you did

Found this
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-load-a-strop-Knife-Sharpening/?AL...

Lansky Sharpeners any good?

light junkie
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Im either to stubborn or to dumb to quit maybe about 1/2 &1/2 so next and hopefully last question, should I buy barbers stops off line or try 8steven88’s sugestion of just getting a. Old belt and nail it to a board, I also have some “Metall” aluminum and stainless steel polish, will that work?

Lj

aoeu
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I used to use the Lansky system but found it to have very limited merits.

-good for sharpening few and small knives. Longer knives require too much labour, repositioning of the knife on the clamp, angle changes towards the far ends.
-high risk of injury because the motion requires you to pass over the blade continuously. A moment of inattention and you’ll slip an cut yourself
-takes tooo long to put new profile on the edge, even with the diamond kit.
-clamping system sucks.

Took me about an hour to reprofile and sharpen 5 knives – a cleaver, santoku, and other smaller knives. That’s just not good enough!

Now I just use a belt sander/linisher and go through the grades. For kitchen stuff I find finishing with 400-600 grit to be perfect even though it won’t shave your arm. I’m never going to hand sharpen again! My advice to anyone is to get a Worksharp knife sharpener as it takes the guess-work, skill, and labour out of the equation.

DB Custom
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The Ken Onion model looks especially appealing. Gonna have to give that one some serious thought.

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My buddy has a WSKO (worksharp ken onion edition). It’s a good tool no doubt but don’t think for a second your gonna get one of those, learn to use it (cause like any sharpening technique it still requires practice) and then have any skills that transfer over to hand (or guided hand) sharpening.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

8steve88
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light junkie wrote:
Im either to stubborn or to dumb to quit maybe about 1/2 &1/2 so next and hopefully last question, should I buy barbers stops off line or try 8steven88’s sugestion of just getting a. Old belt and nail it to a board, I also have some “Metall” aluminum and stainless steel polish, will that work?

Any paste that is slightly abrasive will work, even the leather on it’s own will polish the edge to some extent. If you are nailing the leather to a board make sure to fix it on the sides not the top so the blade can’t come into contact with the nail or screw heads. Gluing would be much better, contact adhesive is good as it doesn’t harden the leather and remains a bit flexible.

There are some really excellent strops available as well as diamond paste. there are also sheets of micro mesh, abrasive sheets with very fine abrasives in grades of 500, 1800, 2400, 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12000 and higher. not at all expensive when you consider the price of strops and abrasive pastes Amazon has a set of nine grades size 6” × 3” for £7 and they last very well.

I have a Lansky hone system, actually several sets including the diamond and given practice and a couple of clamps and mounts it’s amazing the length of blade that you can sharpen. The single most important extra, a mount of some sort, the plastic one from Lansky is good – this allows you to concentrate on the sharpening. A close second is a black Sharpie, put a coating on the bevel to allow you to see where the hone is removing metal from the blade.

I recently bought a Lansky four rod turn box and I’ve been impressed with the way it sharpens, very good edges without a lot of effort, for my needs at the moment just the brown medium grit ceramic rods are all I need to get a working edge. The white fine ceramic rods get a good sharp edge a stropping after that and it produces a very sharp knife.
All the systems require practice and time to produce good results, there’s no short cut, take your time and get it right.

Cereal_killer
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I was gonna email this to WH but I decided to post it for everyone.

The lansky turn box isnt bad per say, its cheap and easier to learn but I suggest spending a little more and getting a spyderco sharpmaker, reason being with a turn box there are no flat surfaces, if/when you’re ready to switch over to stones you cant do so with the turn box, you have to buy new equipment, with the spyderco SM you simply lay the triangle rods down on the bottom of the unit and thee you go- a flat stone. It also has points for getting smaller serrations.

For anyone wanting to start out freehand my #1 suggestion is a 4-sided diamond block (cheese greater looking thing) from harbor freight, its a surprisingly well build piece of equipment for being from HF. The thing only goes up to 4 or 600 grit so it’s very course DO NOT START OUT ON YOUR GOOD KNIVES, go out and pick up some cheap knives from the thrift shop, you will make the first ones worse before you get better.

The biggest aspect of sharpening is angle control, you have to hold the blade at a steady angle, any angle from ~10 up threw 25DPS (to 20-50 total) will give you a sharp edge as long as its properly apex’d and the burr removed, different angles are better for different steels and different tasks, you wouldnt want to sharpen your camp chopper to 20* and you wouldnt want to sharpen your paring knife to 50* but you can at first, much more important than angle is getting down to new steel, getting a proper apex and fully removing the burr. Make sure the burr fully forms on one side BEFORE flipping it, if your not bringing it to a burr EVERY TIME your not accomplishing anything but wearing steel off your blade, n omatter how much steel you remove if you dont get that apex your knife will not get sharp. Start out by getting yourself a piece of paper, fold that in half so you have a 45*, now fold that so you have a 22.5, use that to visualize how to hold the blade and go from there, a 45* angle (overall, 22.5DPS) is a good place to start, learn to hold that angle perfect and you can go from there.

More later if anyone has any questions, gotta go pull a head off a truck to have it sent out by noon today…

Note I’m busy and didnt proofread, will go over it later when I have time to revisit…

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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This guy has some nice strops for sale http://www.stropman.com/ You can checkout youtube as there’s quite a few reviews of his strops.

I ordered one a year or so ago from him. He has pretty good service. Of you could always make your own if you don’t want to to buy a pre-made. It’s not too difficult – basically just a strip of leather glued to a piece of wood.

light junkie
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I switched he’d from a Lansky to a Gatco, because of the narrow area and the risk of you fingers slipped and filet them in nice little strips and I am going to give the old belt trick glues to a 2”×4” while my premade is on its way , I s seriously have been using g a Lansky since ’93 and the Gatco since 2000 and as I stated earlier I can get them sharp enough to shave with, but scary sharp as say Benchmade, spider Co or lone wolf’s out of the box thanks for all the tips I will give all mentioned tips a try.

Lj

light junkie
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Cera l _ killer a couple of apologies 1 he was right I had to spend over an hour with my ceramic hone on my Gatco @22° and it got scary sharp on my Harnds Viper and Schrade 501 both with 9Cr18MoV blades they took much more work to get the same edge as my 8cr18Mov blades and #2:a BIG APOLOGIE on my part because I pre-judged him because of what some CO member accused him of , so I owe him a public. Apologie thank you for the tip and almost your input I home you will forgive me and give me and we move past this.

Lj

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This is just some of my thoughts that have popped up over the years when reading the countless knife sharpening threads. This is not meant to offend anyone nor discourage anyone. It is just my opinions and experience.

 

To get good at it you have to practice. I don't think there is a sharpening system made yet where you can skip that step. So toughen up. Sore fingers are part of the game. As is ruining a good edge, cutting yourself, getting dirty fingers and getting let down by some magical sharpening system. Sorry. There is only one shortcut in my world. It is right at the end of this message and it is called stropping.

Get a cheap and medium sized knife from anywhere cheap. Practice on that. Change the angle to a solid 30 degree and down to a skinny 8 degree or anything in between and each time go out and try that knife. You will find that you prefer one over the other. And that is allright! You don't have to have an exact 17 degree something on you blade. Even if your favorite youtube knife hero says so. Maybe 22 fits your use a lot better.

Get a cheap and small knife. Repeat the steps. New angle. Maybe a new profile alltogether. I've changed the blade profile completely on a few knives after the tips broke off. Did the sharpening on an ordinary carborundum knife sharpening stone. The square one. One side is fine the other coarse. Takes some time but unless you chose a psycho hard steel knife to try it on then you will get it done sooner than you think. (But not as fast as you may wish)

Get a sharpening steel. Now learn how to use that. That'll keep most of your knives tip top most of the time. Dont buy a diamond one. Those are for removing material. Steel ones are for straightening the edge. If a sharpening steel does not produce a super sharp edge in 20 strokes or less you go back to the stones/abrasive paper/fancy machine and try again.

After you learn to use that sharpening steel you can keep you pocket knife scary sharp most of the time by sharpening it on just about anything. Adjustable wrench, spanner, screwdriver, a glass bottle, a shovel, the back of another knife... You name it.

Get a cheap piece of leather. Forget those expensive strops. Because if you upfcuk just once when stropping... you cut that strop halfway through before you can stop your hand... Ask me how I know! (Mine was an old leather belt where the buckle had broken... Phew. But still)

Get "something" put on that leather strop. I don't care what it is called. 790000 grit fairy dust? Fine by me. Just get something. It makes a difference. But once your knife is really sharp it will hardly need the strop. But stropping it till that last fine edge is a lot quicker than doing it any other way. I have used the carborundum paste we use to grind engine valves. The finer one. 400 or 500 grit if I recall. And dont use a whole lot of abrasive paste.. Wet the leather with some oil. Does not matter what oil it is. Then apply the paste.

I am by no means a master at sharpening knives. But all my kitchen knives are shaving sharp. My 3 dollar 2 inch pocket knife cuts 1.5" reinforced rubber steam tubes with little effort. I practiced a lot. 

 EDIT: Some things I forgot..

 

Ever wonder when it is "good enough" ? It is when you touch the blade to your fingernail at an 90 degree angle and try to gently move it sideways. If it "bites" in to your nail and does not want to move or if it scrapes the surface off it is good enough! (don't push on it, no pressure! If it is scary sharp it will cut through that nail before you even think about it.)

Many cooks use this to assess if their knives are sharp enough after a session with the sharpening steel. Why? Because if they tried the shaving then there would be hairs in the soup! (An actual cooks joke Undecided. At least it was a cook that told it to me when discussing knives and sharpening) 

Best fixed blade knives are Mora knives. For the money and in any situation I've had to deal with. Can be as sharp as you like. Can take a beating. Comes with orange handle so you can find it again if it ever goes anywhere outside with you. These can be punched through a kevlar plate. I don't need anything else. About 8 usd here in Denmark.

Best daily folder is Opinell. Nothing fancy for the money but can become scary sharp on the flat side of a small rock in 1 minute flat. Comes in all sizes. Illegal to carry here in Denmark due to the lock. So I carry a 3 usd noname folder.

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

Dimbo The Blinky
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Location: The Indigo State, USA, Earth

First off, I completely concur with every single thing Ledsmoke said. There is one point I’d like to sharpen up, if I may be so bold.

Ledsmoke wrote:
To get good at it you have to practice.
That’s not perfectly precise. “Practice Makes Perfect” is a bit of a tautology. Actually Practice Makes Permanent. Only Perfect Practice Makes Perfect. First you have to work out the perfect technique, using the paper guides explained earlier, or whatever suits you, then practice that.

Okay, that’s all I can add.

There is one other thing, I must say:

Ledsmoke wrote:
I am by no means a master at sharpening knives.
And I take exception to that comment. At a minimum, it would be extremely debatable, and I believe the maxim “by their fruits ye shall know them” proves it false.

Other than that, I’d offer a tip for QC inspection: If you get a strong light behind your head, so that the light shines past your face onto your knife edge… Easier done than said… Imagine the light rays running past your eyeball onto the knife at a distance you can focus on… Now imagine the plane of the blade running such that it would look like you’re trying to slice your eyeball in two equal pieces… If you rock the blade back & forth lengthwise so the light spot moves along the cutting edge, look for flares or disturbances, which are either flat spots or rolled burr edges. This is less useful after sharpening, but in a pinch it will show you where you need to work most to fix an edge. And where your buddy used your knife to whack Romex. Shocked

Thank you ALL for this awesome thread and all the excellent Knowledge!!!

Dim

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Dimbo The Blinky
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Location: The Indigo State, USA, Earth

If you want to whittle steel, like whittling wood with your favorite pocket knife, get yourself one of these:

It’s nothing but a Carbide bar on the edge of a small steel bar. KISS. I picked one up on a whim at the local hardware store, to see if it would make sharpening lawn mower blades less of a chore. It worked.

For a giggle, to test it, I tried whittling the edge of a double-bit axe head I was in the process of re-handling… One stroke down each side of an edge made the old head (the axe, not mine!!) dangerous to work on!!

Needless to say, I’m impressed.

Not shilling, just sharing. This is a cool tool and it is small enough to fit almost anywhere you want it, and will get any metal you can find (even bar stock, I’d wager) sharp enough to skin a deer, without a lot of work. No, it won’t likely make an edge like you guys are discussing in this thread, but it will make an edge you can use to cut things, on anything metal and flat — and that right soon.

I only paid around seven bucks, so needless to say I went back & picked up a few. One of them is the only sharpening tool in my BOB now…

Hope this helps.

Dim

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

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