Comparison: X40 vs K40M vs K50 vs Old-Lumens MT-G2 Maglite vs TK75 R86 edition, vs TK61 stage 1 vs retard light

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RaceR86
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Comparison: X40 vs K40M vs K50 vs Old-Lumens MT-G2 Maglite vs TK75 R86 edition, vs TK61 stage 1 vs retard light

Intro

I wanted to compare some lights for the fun of it, compare numbers, beamshots, various info and subjective thoughts in order to give BLF users some perspective on how various lights compare.

Feel free to ask questions and discuss.


 

If you like beamshots comparsions of other modified lights, in a lower price range. Then you might be interested in a couple of beamshot comparison threads ive done in the past:

Beamshots: Comparison of modified budget thrower favourites

Beamshot comparison: Led Lenser X21R vs various modded lights

Beamshot comparison: Some of my modified bright lights

This thread is about more expensive lights. Basically in the 100$+ range and with quite similar size.


Pictures of the lights:

More details on the lights here, from left:

X40 stock (Edit, now modded, details further down in this thread. See Bonus section for output numbers)

K40M stock (Edit, now modded, details here. See bonus section for output numbers of the modified light)

K50 have its own mod thread here. (My light is currently running stock driver and XM-L2 U2 2C. Its pretty much like a stock light.)

Old-Lumens 2D Maglite with MT-G2 and 9A driver have its own build thread here, with beamshots and videos (She is a beauty!)

"Retard light" have its own mod thread. (Lets get retarded in here)

TK61 have its own mod thread (My light is currently a "stage 1" light. Just a resistor mod and stock emitter)

TK75 R86 edition have its own mod thread. (All numbers and beamshots at 6,6A to each emitter. Which im perfectly fine with)

 


Lumen comparison:

Measured by me @30 seconds. Non calibrated equipment. I dont claim accuracy or perfect consistensy. All lights measured the same day (some were double checked) Fresh and suitable batteries for all lights. Lights with underline are what I would consider properly regulated (they will have same/very similar output even with lower voltage cells)

K50                     1397 Lumen

TK61 (stage 1)      1502 Lumen

K40M                   2888 Lumen

X40                     2913 Lumen

OL Maglite           3287 Lumen

TK 75 R86 edtion  5063 Lumen

Retard light        12453 Lumen ( 13734 at startup)

 

Lights with stepdown:

K50, after close to 1 minute and 10 seconds its got a minor stepdown. It drops about 110 lumen  (from about 5A to 4,5A to the emitter)

K40M, after close to 1 minute and 10 seconds its got a minor stepdown. It drops about 210 lumen (measured difference from about 1 minute to 1 minute and 10 seconds)

TK75 R86 edition, temperature based stepdown to a fixed lower level

 

X40 vs K40M Lumen

This is an interesting comparison. According to Sup/Acebeam these should be 500 lumens apart (K40M 3000 and X40 3500). My numbers says they are roughly 25 lumens apart (first time I measured).  Ive measured them a couple of more times. And X40 comes up on top every time. But difference is usually only around 10-80 lumen. In terms of lumen at startup, these lights are basically the same.

K40M drops about 210 lumen at 1 minute 10 seconds. From 1 minute 10 seconds and to 5 minutes it drops another 80 lumen.

X40 have no step down. From 1 minute 10 seconds and to 5 minutes it only dropped around 20 lumen. I was quite amazed at that.

I put some protected NCR18650BD at 3,6V in both lights. K40M showed 2856 lumen (basically the same as with fresh batteries) X40 "only" showed 2142 due to the lack of regulation. X40 seems to be nicely regulated for some time.

Other:

Old-Lumens 9A MT-G2 maglite and the retard light are highly dependent on cells in order to reach their peak output. X40 not so, but it will start to drop after some time.

I dont think the Maglite reflector combined with MT-G2 does a great job at putting out the lumens. Double checked output, batteries and amps.

 

Lux comparison:

Measured at 15 meter, highest reading I was capable of finding after 30 seconds. Numbers or comparable with eachother. May not be comparable with numbers I`ve posted in the past, or will post in the future.

OL MT-G2 Maglite   55350cd (3287 Lumen)

K40M                       72630cd (2888 Lumen)

X40                          80190cd (2913 Lumen)

K50                         190080cd (1397 Lumen)

TK75 R86 edition    205200cd (5063 Lumen)

Retard                     220050cd (12453 Lumen)

TK61 stage1           261630cd  (1502 Lumen)

 

Beamshot comparison:

Camera settings for all pictures:

1s, F5,6, ISO800, Auto WB, focal length 17mm (aps-c)

These pictures may be a bit representative for tint, but don't count on it due to auto white balance. I did not want to try to make it into a tint comparison. (But free to discuss tint and the lights)

In comparison to my previous beamshot comparison, these shots are one step less bright. Otherwise the retard light made the trees look like they were on fire.

First, in the order they were lined up in the picture above:

Decided to go get another not so bright light to compare with. Warsun H003 on full blast! Review here.

Oh, and the control shot:

Beamshot mouseovers:

X40 vs K40

X40 vs TK75 R86 edition

X40 vs retard

K40M (MT-G2) vs Old-Lumen`s maglite (MT-G2)

K50 vs TK61 (stage 1)

K50 vs TK75 R86 edition

TK61 vs TK61 killer

TK75 R86 edition vs retard light

Warsun H003 vs retard light

 


Bonus stuff:

-Added numbers from Supbeam X40 with de-domed emitters. Stock otherwise.

-Added numbers from Fenix RC40 (stock).

-Added numbers from resistor modded K40M.


OL MT-G2 Maglite   55350cd (3287 Lumen)

K40M                       72630cd (2888 Lumen)

K40M resistor          96660cd (3759 Lumen)

X40                          80190cd (2913 Lumen)

RC40                       134190cd (3591 Lumen)

X40 de-domed         151200cd (2625 Lumen)

K50                         190080cd (1397 Lumen)

TK75 R86 edition    205200cd (5063 Lumen)

Retard                     220050cd (12453 Lumen)

TK61 stage1           261630cd  (1502 Lumen)

 

De-doming the emitters in the X40 gave me about a 10% loss in lumen and a 90% increase in cd compared to stock.

Resistor mod on the K40M gave me about a 30% increase in lumen and cd.

 

Thoughts, rambling.... :

Might add some here....

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

Edited by: RaceR86 on 10/07/2014 - 23:53
ImA4Wheelr
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Good thread idea.  Do you have a link or can you tell us what method you use to measure lumens?

EDIT: If it's buried in here, please give me a post number.

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can’t wait for your piXXX

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RaceR86
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Good thread idea.  Do you have a link or can you tell us what method you use to measure lumens?

EDIT: If it's buried in here, please give me a post number.

Thanks buddy.

Lumens is calculated based on ceiling bounce. I have a "nice place" to do it. No sphere or anything. It wont do low numbers. But im mostly interested in the big numbers and it seems to do those "good enough". Numbers in this thread are comparable. My numbers from the past or future may not be comparable with numbers in this thread.

This thread will hopefully be more about beamshots and such. Just wanted to add numbers and various info to it. Smile

Beer

Oh... Gonna go out for beamshots now... Ill try and make night into day. 

 

M4D M4X wrote:
can't wait for your piXXX

Ill hopefully post them tomorrow, or the day after.

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I look forward to the beam shots and lux comparisons! 8)

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

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It will be interesting to see the beam shots.  The Maglite is not the best light for an MT-G2 led. From what I have seen, the 90mm reflector thar MRsDNF used in his big light, just about works for an MT-G2. We know that even an XM-L2 benefits from reflectors in the 60mm-70mm range, so I would believe an MT-G2 in a 100mm-120mm range reflector, would do great.

Which of these lights have an AR coated lens? I only used regular coated glass in the Mag. It would be interesting to see a comparicon between with lens and without lens. Also, it would be interesting to see how much the drop is in the Mag, with the diffferent steps in the ramp. I wonder if it's actually better in the long run, to run it not at the highest setting and how much difference that is.

Anyhow, interesting thread. Thanks for putting it up.

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

My YouTube Flashlight Video Channel

The BLF Modding Links Thread 

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/1374/jQ2wdL.jpg

 

RaceR86
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wolfdog1226 wrote:
I look forward to the beam shots and lux comparisons! 8)

 

LUX COMPARISON now added to OP! Smile

Ill see when I get around to post the beam shots (not today)

 

Old-Lumens wrote:

It will be interesting to see the beam shots.  The Maglite is not the best light for an MT-G2 led. From what I have seen, the 90mm reflector thar MRsDNF used in his big light, just about works for an MT-G2. We know that even an XM-L2 benefits from reflectors in the 60mm-70mm range, so I would believe an MT-G2 in a 100mm-120mm range reflector, would do great.

Which of these lights have an AR coated lens? I only used regular coated glass in the Mag. It would be interesting to see a comparicon between with lens and without lens. Also, it would be interesting to see how much the drop is in the Mag, with the diffferent steps in the ramp. I wonder if it's actually better in the long run, to run it not at the highest setting and how much difference that is.

Anyhow, interesting thread. Thanks for putting it up.

Glad you found it interesting.

Your Maglite, and the "retard light" does not have AR lens. The others came with AR lens from the factory.

Did some double checking once again on the Maglite. Im seeing 8,8A at the emitter (with freshly charged cells). Seing 8,9-9 A at the tail. Tried replacing tail with wire, same output, but there might be a little bit resistance in the tail.

Like the retard light, its highly dependent on having freshly charged high discharge cells in order to reach peak output. Due to the extreme heat, and also voltage sag, output will be dropping quickly.

Not sure what others would think, but having it regulated to...  say 6A and with room for protected 26650 cells would make more sense to me. That is still a lot of light, and most cells will "fairly quickly" be down there anyway. You will also get less sag due to heat, and difference in output will not be that much. In some lights, I would not mind the more extreme currents, but those have larger heads with cooling. On a Maglite most of the heat will be in the "body", and the area that heats up quickly (above the switch)is not that large. When that is said, its not that important. The user can program high to be whatever he wants, and then he can ramp further up if he wants even more output.

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http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

RaceR86
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I hope you guys like beamshots. Smile I also added pictures of the flashlights in OP.

Id recommend to jump to the mouse over pictures.

I can do more mouseovers if anyone wants to.

I also have beamshots with more zoom (not just wide angle). Those are better for comparing the lights with more throw, but I think these pictures, mouseovers, and all the numbers tell a good enough story. Besides, there are only two proper throwers here. Some of the others just have a ton of throw due to the output.

btw, measured K40M. About 4,8A to the MT-G2 (but it sinks a bit, and then there is stepdown).

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impressive pictures!

thanks

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maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

RaceR86
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M4D M4X wrote:
impressive pictures! thanks

Beer

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

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Wow, I love them all, excluding the Warsun.  Talk about precise work.  Those pics appear to be completely in alignment on everything.

My fav by far is the TK75 R86 edition. 

That Retard is just full on crazy.  Perfect for when you want to completely clear an area of nightfall.

RaceR86
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What? No love for the Warsun, the guest contenter? Silly

Moon "moved". Sad As you can see, the Warsun picture was taken a bit later.

I agree. TK75 R86 edition is certainly my favorite. (Although, I would swap the emitters with something NW.) Its also the most expensive light, with the highest amount of time put into it. So it it better be.

The retard is a multi purpose tool. You can use it as a stove as well. Big Smile Very handy for making omelet and such.. 

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
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Since you already went full retard on that host, mine is still in the box. I’m waiting for a lull before I “tard” it up.

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Very nice beamshot, looks like the forest is on fiiiiiiiiiire Shocked with the retard light.

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I'll take all the MTG-2 lights and the TK75 just to show I'm not biased. Thanks for the effort.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

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Yeah, ok, I'm convinced, I need my own little retard Silly

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Ouchyfoot wrote:
Since you already went full retard on that host, mine is still in the box. I'm waiting for a lull before I "tard" it up.

Mine can be the "tard", yours can be the "turd". Kinda like yin and yang.

I have yet to find out of the modes and such, but Im still enjoying the "tardness" of it.. MAX 2 minutes at a time. Big Smile

 

miojames wrote:
Very nice beamshot, looks like the forest is on fiiiiiiiiiire Shocked with the retard light.

Smile

MRsDNF wrote:

 

(quote went retard)

Out of the MT-G2 lights the K40M is IMO the better light due to formfactor (which I obviously like based on the lights in this comparison) and reflector, but no way you're getting my OL Maglite! Big Smile You want the/a K40M? Dont you have a couple of lights that spanks it?

I don't think you really need the TK75 R86 edition with your 2014 contest build, unless you have started to get a thing for more pocket friendly output monsters.

The MT-G2 lights are nice. Due to the tint and beam, I prefer the stock K40M over the stock X40.

The stock lights wont be stock for long though. Actually, one is already (lightly) modded, and the other is in pieces, partially modded. Gonna take one for a spin now and see how it turned out.  Party

InfinitusEquitas wrote:

Yeah, ok, I'm convinced, I need my own little retard Silly

Everybody needs a bit of retard. Big Smile

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Nice comparisons Beer

  

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In terms of excellent performance with an MTG2, in a fairly compact format, the MX25L3 is still the best option.  The K40M does beat it in output, but the performance gap is very small visually.

RaceR86 wrote:
Everybody needs a bit of retard. Big Smile

I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night, a 90/2000 sitcom.

The troublemaker, not so bright kid Reese said a remarkable thing... "You live in a world of "what if's" I live in a world of "what the hell"" Silly

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Thanks pinkpanda.


Some weeks ago I modified the X40. Just a basic mod. Stock emitters was too CW for my taste (cooler compared to 1A, and the stock CW emitters in the TK75 as an example) The emitters also had that extra bit of red/pink color in them so I considered them good for de-doming. You can actually notice that in the beamshot if you compare to the TK75. I was not a huge fan of the stock emitters.

Here is a quick peek under the skirt of the X40.

Fairly thick aluminium reflector.

Nicely attached copper mcpcb (probably DTP based on the limited sag, I did not test). I forgot measuring amps at the emitter.

The screws that were holding the driver in place had zero epoxy or anything on them. So in my light it was effortless to get the driver out. (I think Acebeam now makes it much more difficult in all their lights.) R082 and R100 looks like sense resistors. I did not play with them. Light is not regulated when voltage becomes too low, its only got 3 cells, I want to use high capacity cells, and Im not that tempted to resistor mod these lights that got fancy electronics for the charging circuit and such. So I left it stock. Got more pictures if anyone likes to see.

De-domed emitters.

Stock O-ring below the lens was a PITA to get nicely in place on my light since it should have been a bit wider.

For some reason I experienced an issue with sometimes activating strobe when setting the light on highest setting. I tried to make sure that the driver was twisted in a way that made sure the strobe was as far as far way from the magnetic field from the highest output setting as possible, but I still experienced that strobe got activated in some cases. Fixed that with drilling up the driver screw holes with a 0,5mm larger drill bit. That meant I could twist the driver 0,25mm further away. Problem solved! I recommenced to not take out the driver if you don't have plans on trying to modify it. Zero issues with accidental strobe activation in the past weeks.

Numbers:

X40                          80190cd (2913 Lumen)

X40 de-domed         151200cd (2625 Lumen)

That is about 90% increase in cd and 10% loss in lumen according to my lux meter.  Tint became NW. No red in it anymore, its got a little bit of the typical de-domed tint (with hints of more yellow/green), but not much. It turned out decent. Which is pretty much as good as it gets for de-domed XM-L2s.

I have also measured new (stock) RC40 that I just got in.

RC40                       134190cd (3591 Lumen)

All numbers can be compared in the bonus section in OP.

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InfinitusEquitas wrote:

In terms of excellent performance with an MTG2, in a fairly compact format, the MX25L3 is still the best option.  The K40M does beat it in output, but the performance gap is very small visually.

Thanks for sharing.

Did you sometimes experience that your modified X60 went into strobe on highest setting? (I think you said that sometime) If so read my previous post. I got the issue on my X40, but fixed it. Its not directly related to modding the light as far as I can tell.

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RaceR86 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

Did you sometimes experience that your modified X60 went into strobe on highest setting? (I think you said that sometime) If so read my previous post. I got the issue on my X40, but fixed it. Its not directly related to modding the light as far as I can tell.

The only light I experienced that issue with, was the first batch of X60's Vinh modded.  I actually haven't used it in months Shocked

The X60 stock is also gathering dust.

The three lights I ended up using a lot last camping trip were a dedomed X60, dedomed mm15, and a modded TK76.  With the TK76 pulling most of the weight.

A modded RC40 was also on the table, in the third mode, acting as basically a lantern.  If there is a light to go nuts with, modding, it's the RC40... tons of mass to absorb heat, and built like a tank.  Mine, admittedly, now carries a few battle scars.

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Thanks for the beautiful beamshots & reviews. According to your pics the K40M is much brighter then the X40 in terms of lumens the X40 is slightly more?

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InfinitusEquitas wrote:

RaceR86 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

Did you sometimes experience that your modified X60 went into strobe on highest setting? (I think you said that sometime) If so read my previous post. I got the issue on my X40, but fixed it. Its not directly related to modding the light as far as I can tell.

The only light I experienced that issue with, was the first batch of X60's Vinh modded.  I actually haven't used it in months Shocked

The X60 stock is also gathering dust.

The three lights I ended up using a lot last camping trip were a dedomed X60, dedomed mm15, and a modded TK76.  With the TK76 pulling most of the weight.

A modded RC40 was also on the table, in the third mode, acting as basically a lantern.  If there is a light to go nuts with, modding, it's the RC40... tons of mass to absorb heat, and built like a tank.  Mine, admittedly, now carries a few battle scars.

Which light have the most side spill out of RC40 and X60? Im thinking about the outer spill that is close to your feet. Is there much brightness difference between the spill from the lights? (comparing domed emitters vs domed)

Light with battle scars > light with dust Big Smile

If you have too many X60 lights, you can send one my way. I can take care of it. ^^

My first impression of the RC40 is like you say, its built like a tank. But still like a lightweight tank, Fenix style.

 

my9221 wrote:
Thanks for the beautiful beamshots & reviews. According to your pics the K40M is much brighter then the X40 in terms of lumens the X40 is slightly more?

Beer

About K40M vs X40 brightness. The X40 measured slightly higher lumen, but the differences is so small that it could just be that my light meter reads higher on CW lights. These lights have pretty much the same brightness.

When you look at the comparison beamshots and see the K40M as "much brigher", I think that have to do with several things. X40 throw a bit further and put out more light down range. Its not that easy to notice on the wide angle pictures which makes you focus more on the close up/mid range. Second, X40 puts out more light in the mid range wider out compared to K40M. K40M puts more light towards the center, which can be perceived brighter. I would also say that the X40 have a bit more light further out compared to K40M that is not seen on the pictures. Im talking about the very outer dim spill light. K40M spill is pretty much what you see, once it goes dark it goes dark. No gradual transition. X40, have a bit if very dim spill light outside of the "main spill". The transition between zero light and the typical spill light is more gradual. I hope that makes sense. Sorry if my bad descriptions made little sense. That is how I remember them when walking outdoors side by side and also some notes to the pictures. I dont need to explain where K40M is brighter since you can see that.

Here is another mouse over comparison with more zoom. (X40 on mouse over).

I think you will see easier that more of the lumens are hitting the trees in the distance, and that requires more light. You will also see more lights at the edge of the picture on the X40.

Id say these lights have very similar in output, they just have a different beam patterns and emitters.

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Yes, thanks for the lengthy explanation!

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Very qualitative beamshots and review. Thanks for the effort.

some of my actual experiments and reviews:
UF-T20 review and mod —->http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30186#node-30186
My EBRZM, over 1 million cd thrower—-> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30274#node-30274
Ervin’s try (2nd. Annual BLF Scratch Made L

eebowler
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Looking at beamshots online sometimes feels like looking at a murder in a movie.: shrug. Race, that retard light is freaking jaw dropping!!! Shocked Shocked :_( Thank you for the beamshots and lumens numbers Smile

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

RaceR86
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Cheers guys!

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

Nightbird95
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WOW! Shocked

That retard light of yours is truly retarded in every sense of the word! Big Smile

I wonder if I can replicate that mod. Its doesn’t have to be as insanely bright as yours but I’m setting my sights on my X-100. J)

I really love this forum and I’m glad to be in the right company. Smile

RaceR86
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Yeah, its quite retarded, and with good tint. Smile

Have not seen your around much lately nightbird95. Hope everything is good.

I just answered your question in this thread regarding your X100.

Beer

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

Nightbird95
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Thanks again RaceR86.

I’ve posted a little lately because I’ve been preoccupied tweaking the mod on the 6X XM-L Bike Light I won from ledoman. I’m also planning to do a tint mix and dedoming on this X6 bike light but it would be after I have solved its driver issues.

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