Triple XP-L Convoy S2 MTN Edition BLF17DD Review

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RMM
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grantman321 wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what sort of emergency this fellow is in that would require quickly constructing a flashlight. Quick! Vampires! We need at least 2,000 lumens or we're doomed!

Me too!  I love your avatar, grantman321.

Regarding the fitment--these are budget hosts after all, and there is bound to be some slight tolerance differences.  The length shouldn't change appreciably, but if it doesn't fit diameter-wise I would suggest this simple solution:  get out some sandpaper and take off the high spots until it fits!  

Sal415:  did you buy the host and spacer from my store?  I don't see where you bought an S6 host or a triple spacer.  

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RMM wrote:

Me too!  I love your avatar, grantman321.

Thanks — I’ve met several of the Robertson guys (before the show, back when only hunters had ever heard of them outside of Louisiana) – though I haven’t met Si. Got to hang out with Jase for about an hour at a small event I helped organize for active & retired military guys at Fort Bragg after the first season of the show. They’re awesome people.

RMM wrote:

Sal415:  did you buy the host and spacer from my store?  I don’t see where you bought an S6 host or a triple spacer.  

Yikes!

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I wondered what my little Cypreus Triple XP-L would do with an Efest Purple 35A, so I just took a tail amp reading with a rested cell for kicks and grins.

How about 12.56A? Might oughta stick it in the lightbox and see what that equates to…pretty crazy for sure!

Edit: Looks like ~3312 lumens at start from this rested cell. Like I really needed to know this, with Sinner’s 18650 Cypreus looking so svelte!
Edit II: A more fully charged Samsung 25R showed 3553 at start!

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The interesting thing about the Cypreus hosts is that they can absorb that insane heat and release it through your flesh in a more controlled manner. My MTG2 in an S3 lets the heat out very fast and I can’t hold it for a full minute on turbo, but the Cypreus I can. If I dip back into turbo after the step down at one minute, it gets too hot. By too hot I mean it’s burning my hand. I wonder if I could hold onto an S6 with the copper slug for a minute on turbo?

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Have any of you guys built a triple with XPG2s and the BLF DD17 on a copper spacer? If so how much light did you get out of it?

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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Well, obviously we’re getting too much guts in too small of a light. The Cypreus EDC 18350 is very small, I love it’s weight with the copper spacer in it and it’s very impressive. Having 7 levels to pick from it’s a useful light in at least 5 of em. Smile I can’t say that Turbo is really useful as it is really pretty short lived.

That said, I love my high powered lights! Can’t use em for real world situations a lot of the time, but still the modes make em at least carryable for normal situations…if you can leave turbo alone. I have a Delrin locker to carry a spare cell, need to get one in 18650 size for the X6 and Sinner Ti lights as they both take 2 of the 18350’s. At some point I start to get concerned about the bomb in my pocket though, does that make sense? Don’t want anyone thinking I actually am sane on occasion…

I did build a Convoy S2 with an XP-G2 and a Qlite running 2.25A. Shocker, I know. It still gets hot in Turbo level, at some 500 lumens. This is my 7 yr olds light, his favorite. Smile

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I think we need a well set up pill — holding any chosen emitter and driver — built with mass and radiator fins on the outside — as the middle piece of any flashlight.

Make it threaded for attaching a battery container, and for attaching a head with optic or reflector.

The old 35mm SLR cameras often had very well made adapter rings, so you could as we now say “Lego” lenses from various sources onto camera bodies from various sources.

Often the adapters would have a bayonet mount on one side and screw threads on the other for making things fit together.

And they had to worry about precise distance between lens and film plane — which we don’t.

I know the ‘lottery’ — people using the machine tool that makes and matches threads, these days, aren’t trying for compatibility with anything. But there can’t be all that many useful choices, right?

I’m wishing for something that would end up looking a bit like the hand guard on a sword, I suppose — wider than the battery holder/handgrip, like a collar, effective at losing heat.

Just dreaming. But right now these modded triple high-powered lights are reaching the energy density where they’re overlapping with IEDs, and so long as lithium-ion cells overheating can be trouble, they will be. I wonder how fast a li-ion starts to break down when it’s repeatedly heated too hot to hold?

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That’s why I would like to see an inert battery tube that wouldn’t absorb heat from the head/pill. Like carbon fiber for example. That would go a long way to keep the cells cooler and still be strong with the benefit of looking awesome. Smile

Ti bezel/tail cap, copper pill/fins, carbon fiber head and battery tube. Smile Oh, $25, max. Silly Oops, I think our wish list just exceeded our budget…

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hank wrote:
But right now these modded triple high-powered lights are reaching the energy density where they’re overlapping with IEDs, and so long as lithium-ion cells overheating can be trouble, they will be. I wonder how fast a li-ion starts to break down when it’s repeatedly heated too hot to hold?

I don’t know but I’m a find out!

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My efest 800s (18350s) are no longer holding a charge sufficient to take the light out of moon mode. Oops.

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scottyhazzard wrote:
My efest 800s (18350s) are no longer holding a charge sufficient to take the light out of moon mode. Oops.

Sounds like you need some of the Purple Efests, they rock at high discharge.  The regular red Efests are good up to around 6A, but beyond that I think they're getting pushed pretty hard.

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new time temp amp data up

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Scotty, I built a triple XP-G2 R5 2B for a Solarforce L2M shorty. I used a 7/8” diameter copper pill 1 1/16” long (made from bar stock) to fit in the L2M, Efest Purple 18350 and it draws 8.4A with the BLF17DD driver. Start output is 2084, 1766 at 30 seconds. Still doing 1500 at 4 minutes with a head temperature of 144º.

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I’m not Scotty,

But you say the lumens will droop and the head temp will stabilize long into 4 minutes?

I don’t think I’ve got the balls to run this thing that long, considering how hot it gets so quickly

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I left the timer at 120 secs on my Roche F6 triples, seems fine to me. (as long as you don't change hands with it after that amount of time, the normal-temp hand gets quite a shock Shocked )

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wd, that’s with XP-G2’s on a big chunk of solid copper. Scotty asked about hard driven XP-G2’s output in comparison to yours. Look how much copper is under this, and even with XP-G2’s it heats up pretty good…

Comfy, so what you’re saying is keep the fried hand on the light and it’s ok? lol

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I’ve used thermal paste on the head threads of my last 2 Solar Force triples—Seems to pull the heat to the head more and slows it to the lower tube a bit—Has anyone else tried this

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Thermal pastes only work where the layer is very thin, like microscopically thin. In thicker layers it acts as an insulator not much better than air. To get the thin layers required usually means very flat highly-finished surfaces and high clamp loads, things that are usually not possible in most flashlight parts other than like between MCPCB & pill top, pill flange to head surfaces, or rather tight press-fit pills.

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So when you tighten up threads till something binds (head to body) therefore making the threads pretty snug against each other—that’s not a tight fit

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In a narrow contact area like the spiral lands on the threads you likely have enough surface contact that the paste wouldn't help. And it definitely won't help between the other parts of the threads that aren't physically touching.

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You got me wondering now if putting a thin copper foil like Teflon tape on the threads would increase head to body contact

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If you got a tight enough contact you wouldn't be able to unscrew it.

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I tried to put solder paste on the threads, figuring to reflow it together. I couldn’t get it to thread or screw in with the paste on there. Probably would have been a PITA to keep all the wires in place. It took a long time to clean out with an old tooth brush and paper towels.

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Is it worth running a triple xpl on a sensible current that would allow you to run it constantly without heat issues in an Convoy S host? How much current would that be and what output would we be expecting? I like the setup but always prefer to have safe runtime on a high mode and then all-out turbo with stepdown.

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aoeu, it might be worth looking into as the Cree datasheet shows a more efficient 350mA to be an ideal. So if 1A or a little more were provided to the 3 XP-L’s then the triple should be in an ideal working range. This could, of course, be configured into the UI at the second or third level to offer a choice of efficiency, while maintaining a more robust high and 100% turbo. (can’t give up the all out blast of awesomeness!) Smile

I would think output would be in the 500-600 lumen range at those levels.

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Thankyou I checked it out. Seems you do get a ~20% advantage from driving same current through 3 XP-L than that current through one XML. I suppose that would mean the triple would produce less heat with the same current and lumens?

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comfychair wrote:

Thermal pastes only work where the layer is very thin, like microscopically thin. In thicker layers it acts as an insulator not much better than air. To get the thin layers required usually means very flat highly-finished surfaces and high clamp loads, things that are usually not possible in most flashlight parts other than like between MCPCB & pill top, pill flange to head surfaces, or rather tight press-fit pills.


Okay, wait. You’re saying that thermal paste, something that is supposedly made for helping to conduct heat between two surfaces, is just barely better at conducting heat than air? That is hard for me to understand. According to Engineering Toolbox, even Styrofoam (made to NOT conduct heat) conducts heat better than air. Plain ole Epoxy has a thermal conductivity that is almost 15 times that of air. Insulating brick (didn’t know that existed) conducts heat at a rate 6.25 times that of air. Yes, these are still relatively tiny amounts, because the only thing that air conducts heat better than is a vacuum. But, we’re talking about thermal paste. It should be pretty good, I’d think, at doing what it was made for – especially compared to leaving the air void that would be there if the paste wasn’t!

edit: to clarify, there are several gases on the list that are less heat conductive than the air we breathe, but I call them all ‘air’ for the purpose of these comparisons.

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David, for me it’s a moot point…2 bare pieces of metal in contact with each other will conduct heat between each other. period. Are there microscopic gaps that hold air at the junction? Most assuredly. It becomes a matter of quantity I would think. Microscopic air gaps between surface contact leave how much percentage of contact at a loss? Can’t be much, if the gaps are microscopic in nature, right?

It’s really a question of efficiency, and the effort to increase efficiency might be more than the net gain in these applications. We struggle to max out the emitter performance, while the cell sags and loses power…effectively killing all of our efforts in the first half minute anyway. Vicious circles.

The bigger point is that if the thermal paste is not applied as it was intended then it could be more detrimental than beneficial. The idea is to fill the air gaps and leave the metal to metal contact. By using too much, you separate the metal to metal and only have paste…losing more than you gain.

I saw someone recommend applying the paste to each surface and then scraping the surface clean of paste with a razor blade. The two surfaces would then mate with the best possible contact.

Almost all of these considerations are extreme examples of taking things to the Nth degree. Something we’re getting pretty good at in our search for flashlight Nirvana. Wink

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I keep saying we need ray-gun-type cooling fins.
I just found the ideal hardware to mod with the latest, hottest emitter:

Uh, yeah, it needs some work:

Quote:
THE XRT TYPE 1 IS SOLAR POWERED, SO UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE FRPM CHAMBER (UPPER ROUNDED & FINNED PORTION) BE PAINTED OR OTHERWISE OBSCURED. UNDER LOW-LIGHT CONDITIONS THE XRT TYPE 1 HAS SUFFICIENT STORED CHARGE FOR 10 SECONDS OF USE WITH THE SELECTOR ON THE MAXIMUM SETTING. IF EXTENDED NIGHT-TIME USE IS ANTICIPATED THE PURCHASER SHOULD PROCUR AN XRT TYPE 1AX OR XRT TYPE 1BX ALONG WITH THE EXTERNAL POWER SOURCE.
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DavidEF wrote:
comfychair wrote:

Thermal pastes only work where the layer is very thin, like microscopically thin. In thicker layers it acts as an insulator not much better than air. To get the thin layers required usually means very flat highly-finished surfaces and high clamp loads, things that are usually not possible in most flashlight parts other than like between MCPCB & pill top, pill flange to head surfaces, or rather tight press-fit pills.

Okay, wait. You're saying that thermal paste, something that is supposedly _made for_ helping to conduct heat between two surfaces, is _just barely_ better at conducting heat than air? That is hard for me to understand. According to "Engineering Toolbox,":http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html even Styrofoam (made to *NOT* conduct heat) conducts heat better than air. Plain ole Epoxy has a thermal conductivity that is almost 15 times that of air. Insulating brick (didn't know that existed) conducts heat at a rate 6.25 times that of air. Yes, these are still relatively tiny amounts, because the only thing that air conducts heat better than is a vacuum. But, we're talking about thermal paste. It should be pretty good, I'd think, at doing what it was made for - especially compared to leaving the air void that would be there if the paste wasn't! edit: to clarify, there are several gases on the list that are less heat conductive than the air we breathe, but I call them all 'air' for the purpose of these comparisons.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Your ideal insulator, styrofoam, could very well be a very good conductor at a thickness of 1-3 microns.

edit: And this is why these reference charts are misleading at best. You have to know how to interpret the data as it applies to a specific situation, and if you don't know how to do that, you'll think you understand something you really don't.

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