17mm & 20/26/27mm single-sided DD/FET driver release: A17DD-SO8 / A20DD-SO8 / etc

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wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

Further thought leads me to believe I got the MCU discussed above off a q-lite from IOS.  Actual investigation confirms the presence of solder select disco modes.  My bad.   

To actually test NLITE on this driver I built a second driver with a different MCU.  This one came from RMM about a month ago on a 4× 7135 driver and I had him flash nlite onto it.  I built the driver with 22k resistor first and got the first stepdown at 3.21 volts.  There were several steps noted to progressively lower light levels but there was no associated flashing.  I substituted a 19.1k resistor and didn’t get a stepdown until 2.7 volts.  That’s a long way of saying NLITE works fine.  

 

Cool, thanks for the additional info. Definitely useful stuff!

Your measurements appear to show a variance from the specified value on either the 22k or the 19.1k resistor. No big surprise there. For example, 1% tolerance on a 19.1k allows for the wide range of 18909 to 19291 ohms.

To knock the 22k resistor down you could piggyback a high value resistor such as 220k to 330k. Ideally that might net a 2.96v, 3.01v, or 3.04v stepdown respectively for 220k, 270k, or 330k. (this is based off of your 22k stepdown measurement, not your 19.1k stepdown measurement)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

kyfishguy
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  I scrounged a 330k resistor and piggybacked on the 22k.  Stepdown voltage was 2.95v.  I'm putting the light back together now! 

  Any thoughts on a piggyback resistor value that might reduce the stepdown voltage from the 3.47v I was getting with the 22k and q-lite combo?  The 2.8v I'm getting with the 19.1k is a bit low for comfort. 

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

  I scrounged a 330k resistor and piggybacked on the 22k.  Stepdown voltage was 2.95v.  I’m putting the light back together now! 

  Any thoughts on a piggyback resistor value that might reduce the stepdown voltage from the 3.47v I was getting with the 22k and q-lite combo?  The 2.8v I’m getting with the 19.1k is a bit low for comfort. 

I’m glad the 330k did something decent.

As far as a value to piggyback for the qlite’s R1, sure. All I’m doing is using a handful of calculators. I understand how this stuff works, but just punching stuff into calculators is easiest for me.

  1. Determine target voltage. For that I use a voltage divider calculator, such as this one from Raltron. Simply input your Input voltage (stepdown voltage) R1, and R2.
  2. Determine target R1 value. Change the input voltage to the desired stepdown voltage. Delete R1 and recalculate.
  3. Determine piggyback value for 22k R1. Use a parallel resistor calculator (solver!) such as this one from sengpielaudio. Input our starting resistor value (R1) into R1. Input the target value into Rtotal.
  4. Choose nearby standard resistor values. http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcclurel/resistorsandcaps.pdf
  5. If necessary do your calculations in reverse now, calculate the Rtotal for a piggybacked resistor (say 330k on 22k), then punch that into your voltage divider calc along with the 4700 ohm R2 and the output voltage you calculated earlier. This will allow you to produce/check the stepdown voltage.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

kyfishguy
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That was an interesting process, thanks for the education.  If I did it right, the gate voltage calculator comes up with an R1 value of around 18.4k for a stepdown voltage 0f 3.0v.  The issue of course is that we already know that an R1 value of 19.1k gives a stepdown voltage of 2.8v so going lower won't help.  What troubles me some is that the entering the stepdown measurement of 3.47v and the 22k/4.7k resistor values gives a gate voltage of 0.611, somewhat higher than your expectation.  Some seat of the pants stacking (assuming we needed a total R1 value between 19.1k and 22k) gave me a tested stepdown voltage of 3.1v at a total R1 value of 20.5k by stacking a 300k resistor.  I might try an 800k next if I can find one.

wight
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Which direction are you trying to go from 3.1v?

It would likely help if you measured your resistors. You did use a 1% 22k part, right? I’d measure all 3: the 19.1k, the 22k, and the 4.7k.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
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wight wrote:
[snip] PSMN0R9-30YLD – rufusbduck pointed this one out, it has very similar characteristics to PSMN3R0-30YLD but is better. Slightly lower Rds(on) and slightly lower Vgs. Also significantly higher “total power dissipation”. We expect the lower Vgs to ensure that the FET remains more “fully open” on single cell setups.
Has anyone tested this FET yet? RBD? DBCstm?

Thanks.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

RMM
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I have a few of them, but haven't gotten around to testing one yet.  It was super expensive, so I really want it to do something! Foot in Mouth

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

wight
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RMM wrote:

I have a few of them, but haven’t gotten around to testing one yet.  It was super expensive, so I really want it to do something! Foot in Mouth

Me too.. on both counts.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
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Being close to Mouser it won’t take but a couple 2 or 3 days for them to show up.

I won’t sit on em. Wink

absalom
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I’m interested in putting this driver in my Convoy C8. Currently, it’s just an XM-L2 with 7135*8 but I want to take it to the next level. What all would I need for the conversion? Would I need additional heatsinking to make it work? Looking forward to hearing back!

wight
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absalom wrote:
I’m interested in putting this driver in my Convoy C8. Currently, it’s just an XM-L2 with 7135*8 but I want to take it to the next level. What all would I need for the conversion? Would I need additional heatsinking to make it work? Looking forward to hearing back!
  • With a good cell and a low-Vf emitter this driver will provide extremely high currents. Most XM-L2 don’t have a low enough Vf to get the craziest currents, but you could easily see something like ~6A, which is a lot. You’ll need to ensure that you are using a DTP MCPCB such as the ones from SinkPAD, Noctigon, or Maxtoch. A regular non-DTP MCPCB (copper, aluminum, whatever) can be expected to destroy your emitter at 6A. Look at MTN Electronics or INTL Outdoor for those parts, although I think there are plenty of other places that carry SinkPADs.
  • Of course you must ensure that the (DTP) MCPCB is adequately seated against the head and transmitting heat out to the flashlight body properly. Normally this involves having a thin layer of TIM (CPU heatsink grease) under the MCPCB. This high-current situation is very hard on the LED, so heat management (cooling the LED) is critical.
  • No heatsinking at all should be necessary for the driver. It produces very little heat (only “switching losses”).
  • Mouser and DigiKey partslists to build the driver are on Page 2 of this thread.
  • You’ll also want a driver spring, probably (again, MTN or IOS are good places to look). You’ll definitely want to bypass both springs. (Unless you don’t use a spring on the driver. In that case you’ll only need to bypass one spring of course!) The quality of the spring doesn’t matter much once it’s bypassed, you don’t need a high end spring. Here are two threads which show bypasses:
    http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26414 (look in the OP)
    http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26415?page=1 (look at post #55)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

absalom
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wight wrote:
absalom wrote:
I’m interested in putting this driver in my Convoy C8. Currently, it’s just an XM-L2 with 7135*8 but I want to take it to the next level. What all would I need for the conversion? Would I need additional heatsinking to make it work? Looking forward to hearing back!
  • With a good cell and a low-Vf emitter this driver will provide extremely high currents. Most XM-L2 don’t have a low enough Vf to get the craziest currents, but you could easily see something like ~6A, which is a lot. You’ll need to ensure that you are using a DTP MCPCB such as the ones from SinkPAD, Noctigon, or Maxtoch. A regular non-DTP MCPCB (copper, aluminum, whatever) can be expected to destroy your emitter at 6A. Look at MTN Electronics or INTL Outdoor for those parts, although I think there are plenty of other places that carry SinkPADs.
  • Of course you must ensure that the (DTP) MCPCB is adequately seated against the head and transmitting heat out to the flashlight body properly. Normally this involves having a thin layer of TIM (CPU heatsink grease) under the MCPCB. This high-current situation is very hard on the LED, so heat management (cooling the LED) is critical.
  • No heatsinking at all should be necessary for the driver. It produces very little heat (only “switching losses”).
  • Mouser and DigiKey partslists to build the driver are on Page 2 of this thread.
  • You’ll also want a driver spring, probably (again, MTN or IOS are good places to look). You’ll definitely want to bypass both springs. (Unless you don’t use a spring on the driver. In that case you’ll only need to bypass one spring of course!) The quality of the spring doesn’t matter much once it’s bypassed, you don’t need a high end spring. Here are two threads which show bypasses:
    http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26414 (look in the OP)
    http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26415?page=1 (look at post #55)

Much more involved than I thought it’d be, and that’s ok. I’ll probably just wait for this A6 GB to happen!

wight
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It’s not really involved. The only crucial thing is to heatsink the LED properly.

In general doing spring bypasses is only necessary to improve performance. All high current lights benefit from doing this. (If you won the Vf lottery and have an XM-L2 emitter with a really crazy low Vf it’s possible that you could damage a spring. I’ve only done that with an oldschool XM-L @ 8-9A, the XM-L2 will not likely pull enough current for that to happen.)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

absalom
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Which diameter MCPCB would I need for a Convoy C8?

Would this driver work in lieu of building my own from scratch? Pros? Cons?

wight
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absalom wrote:
Which diameter MCPCB would I need for a Convoy C8?

Would this driver work in lieu of building my own from scratch? Pros? Cons?

I don’t have a C8, but I imagine it’s 20mm. There are many different C8’s, so I recommend that you take yours apart and check for yourself to be sure. I think older or less nice C8’s may have used 16mm.

Nothing wrong with that driver! The layout is inspired by this driver (v024). I think that my driver (v024, v031, v043) is considerably more attractive in appearance than the ones from MTN. Performance should be in the same class.

I’d still recommend building your own: you’ll learn more, become more comfortable with the parts, and save money. RMM charges a very fair price for his assembled and programmed drivers… but you can still build your own for a fraction of the cost. You can purchase PCBs and parts for 3 of these for the price of one pre-built driver. (Much) Better price breaks happen at 10x though, so I’d order 3x PCBs (the minimum) for $2.20 and at least 10x of all the parts from Mouser, just like the cart in post #38 shows. You may want to pickup 100x of the 1uf capacitor and the two resistors, as the price breaks are huge on those once you hit 100 pcs. It’s $4.00 extra total for an extra 270pcs (90 extra of each). The 1uf capacitors are especially useful for converting Nanjg-105c drivers to offtime.

Take a look and form your own opinion. IMO the parts are cheap enough compared to built drivers that you can afford to destroy… well… a LOT of them in the learning process if necessary.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
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“I think that my driver (v024, v031, v043) is considerably more attractive in appearance than the ones from MTN. “

Really? More attractive? A driver? It goes inside, never to be seen again, how does it’s appearance matter? I bet you pay a lot of money to have the underside of your vehicle undercoated don’t you? Silly Much prettier when changing the oil from underneath if it’s spray painted all neat and all…

Function rules. Simple as that. Absalom, don’t let the obsessive compulsive issue of the designers get under your skin. Richards driver will work fine for you and you’ll see a huge difference in output over a stock C8 driver.

We’ll rate how pretty they are when Wight has a few hundred built up for sale… Wink

(bustin your b@lls ol boy!) lol

wight
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I can’t help it! Sure impresses the folks at Jiffy-lube though…

Wink

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

RMM
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You guys are pretty funny!  I hope that nobody takes this stuff too seriously, because I know I don't.   Laughing  

I also agree that wight's design is much more attractive.  He has a better eye for layout and symmetry than I do, and I think it's obvious that he has a lot more patience than I do!  43+ revisions?  I don't think I have 43 revisions with all of my boards combined.  Wight takes the time to think about the aesthetic appeal--he's like the Jonathan Ive of flashlight driver design.    

I'm the kind of guy that once I get something that works well, will probably stick with it until something clearly better comes along.  I guess you could say that I value function over form.  Not to say that form doesn't matter to me, because it does, but when there is limited time and resources I am willing to sacrifice form.  Wight doesn't sacrifice; uncompromising aesthetic design is his vice. Tongue Out

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DB Custom
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I don’t mind the usual drivers, don’t pay any attention really, but I DO notice these nice aesthetic designs! Changing cells you see the patterns, the arrangement, and then it’s appreciable, obvious the time was taken to lay it out pretty.

I especially like the PZL driver, looks really neat in the light. Wink

Edit: Looking for components with 24K gold overlay on the connections. I mean, if the board is so pretty so should be the components, right? Smile

Edit II: The devil is in the details, when something is done all the way as best as it can be…it shows. Look how much better it would be if they applied that way of thinking to this fabulous emitter…

I have to wonder just what they were thinking with that charcoal grey mess under the die?

seben
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I’m just getting ready to order parts. 20 Boards are already on order.
(need to build some XHP70s 2×18350 – After seeing Dales Pics the need is great ^^)

I assume any 1% decent resistors will do.

I’m not sure what specs the -D1 diode-(low Vf) should be and a proper Zener?

C1 at 4.7 or higher value for the zener mod?
And maybe some additional R1s at 19k?

I’m also looking into getting a Programming adapter – currenty I’m still not able to find a decent clamp for icp.

Thanks and greets

cajampa
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It is the
Pomona 8 pin soic test clip. part number 5250. IC test clip
you want for the programming adapter.

seben
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cajampa wrote:
It is the Pomona 8 pin soic test clip. part number 5250. IC test clip you want for the programming adapter.

Thanks!

Mitko
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Where one can found tips on how-to program and firmware for that driver?

cnrffl1
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You can start with this http://budgetlightforum.com/node/36216.

sinner
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You can use Star firmware or nlite, there are also some firmwares tweaked by ToyKeeper and DBCstm you can pm them to get the .c files.
Just a word of advice, there is a lot to take in, do it one step at a time otherwise you’ll be “f*ck this s*t$%%^” in no time.

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

cajampa
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I just found this PSMN0R7-25YLD at nxp, it looks to me like it could possible be the next step up from the PSMN0R9-30YLD

It isn’t released yet & is noted as “in development” at nxp but those specs they have released so far of it, looks to me that it could be slightly better than the PSMN0R9-30YLD by the overall slightly lowered resistance on many parameters.

Mitko
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Yeah, i read about that matter like 3-4 hours already.

One thing: is the main software needed fully operational with 64bit only OS? – i use win7 and win 8 OS 64bit….

Quote:
“f*ck this s*t$%%^”
hehe, i aint much of a “gave up easy” person, but EU is very short of that kind of drivers, otherwise i wont bother at all
sinner
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EU needs drivers. Got it Silly and good luck to you.

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

Rufusbduck
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Hard to say since there is no graph corresponding to fig 8 showing Rds-on as a function of gate voltage. It’s not just how low the resistance is but how much voltage needs to be applied to the gate to get that low number. My guess is it’s pretty good but that would be just a guess based on what the graphs usually look like. Things like thick wires, spring, and switch mods will likely have greater impact at this point. Also paying particular attention to electro mechanical connections like threads and rings is important.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

sinner
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I’m using windows 10 Tech Preview, 64bit, and everything worked thus far. The only Issue i had was with installing the Usbasp drivers, for that you would have to disable the driver signature enforcement , Pretty sure you’ll have to do that with windows 8 PC as well.

Disable driver signature enforcement Win 8/8.1/10
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_d...

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

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