[WIP] 17mm DD+single-7135 driver / single sided / Dual-PWM

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Mike C
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wight wrote:
How are people feeling about 0603 sized components these days?

I use 0603 exclusively in my drivers as I want to utilize the space as much as I can. I also bend pins on the MCU, put the MCU where the spring usually is (for space and easy access to flash the light without full disassemble) and cut of the tabs of the 7135s to make them shorter (custom Eagle library part). One of my drivers where I’ve done this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/43350

I did a design with 0402 sized components but they where to annoyingly small for me to work with, so I’m sticking with 0603.

Btw, nice to see you back, if only for a while.

bdiddle
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Has anyone built this driver with a second stacked 7135? Adjusted the modes to use the pair of 7135’s for more modes of non-FET power? (more efficiency)

Newb

bugsy36
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bdiddle wrote:
Has anyone built this driver with a second stacked 7135? Adjusted the modes to use the pair of 7135's for more modes of non-FET power? (more efficiency)

Not physically stacked that I am aware of but with more 7135's. The single 7135 was basically a method to achieve a regulated "Lo" that many complained was either "to the moon Hi" or a "subterranean Lo".

Wight and PilotDog68 both have drivers with more than one 7135

It's the simple things that we take for granted that cost us the most

Ευκαιρία λέει πιάσε με από το μέτωπο γιατί μόλις έχω περάσει δεν θα με πιάσειs

pilotdog68
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bdiddle wrote:
Has anyone built this driver with a second stacked 7135? Adjusted the modes to use the pair of 7135’s for more modes of non-FET power? (more efficiency)

Yep, I’ve done it multiple times. I got tired of stacking though so that’s when I made the DoubleDown driver boards.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Tom E
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I dunno. With 4 or 5 nice well spaced modes, only 1 mode (32%-40%) uses PWM's on the FET typically. The lowest 3 including moon use the single 7135. One full 7135 mode does like 120-170 lumens roughly with a good NW or CW LED, good AR lens, so that's like 10% typically.

4-5 modes are my favorite settings. Adding another 7135 has no advantage that I can see for a 4-5 mode set.

Am I missing it, but is a FET+1 OSHPark driver available anywhere, from anybody in 20 mm size? Anyone have an interest in making one if it's not around?

I really miss this wight FET+1 driver in a 20 mm size...

pilotdog68
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In most of my lights I just want three modes, and I like the middle mode to be regulated at ~1 or 1.5amps. That’s why I like the extra 7135’s.

Tom E wrote:
Am I missing it, but is a FET+1 OSHPark driver available anywhere, from anybody in 20 mm size? Anyone have an interest in making one if it’s not around?

I really miss this wight FET+1 driver in a 20 mm size…


You can use the 20mm DoubleDown for that too. If you just populate the top side it’s FET+1 with some other stuff thrown in.

Quote:
20mm and 22mm Revision 2.1 (Current)
These boards are identical except for the outside diameter. They have all the same features as the 17mm board, plus:
  • LED+ hole is now directly in the center
  • Attiny45/85 ready
  • Separate pad for Pin 3
  • Zener ready
  • Gate pulldown resistor for FET

Oshpark link for 20mm ……………. Oshpark link for 22mm

[/quote]

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Tom E
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Oh thanks PD68! I just looked at my OSHPark order history - did order these boards back on Nov 7th(silly me Foot in Mouth).... I ordered 22's, 20's, and 17's. K, I know I need the 20's for a couple of projects, gotta get organized better..

pilotdog68
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Tom E wrote:

Oh thanks PD68! I just looked at my OSHPark order history – did order these boards back on Nov 7th(silly me Foot in Mouth)…. I ordered 22’s, 20’s, and 17’s. K, I know I need the 20’s for a couple of projects, gotta get organized better..

your memory is getting almost as bad as Dale’s… Silly

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Tom E
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I can totally relate to Dale. Wait, who's Dale? Smile

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You should add a second diode, and put it right next to the second resistor… so that the labels will say “R2D2”.

bdiddle
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Question:

One of these drivers, loaded with the BLF A6 firmware, acts like it has next mode memory. Anytime I cut power, it moves forward. Does not appears to be related to time spent off.

So, in moon mode, click off for 10 seconds. Turn on, it is in mode 2. Click it off for a few minutes, click on, mode 3.

etc……..

Suggestions on what to change? I have a stack of these that work. This one I reflashed, and replaced the OTC.

Newb

Halo...
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Sounds like the OTC is not discharging or at least that’s what the attiny thinks. Is it the same OTC cap as the other (working) drivers?

bdiddle
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Yep

Newb

Halo...
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You could try ToyKeeper’s offtime-cap.c to check what OTC values it’s seeing. It’s in the battcheck folder in her repository.

finges
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bdiddle wrote:
Question:

One of these drivers, loaded with the BLF A6 firmware, acts like it has next mode memory. Anytime I cut power, it moves forward. Does not appears to be related to time spent off.

So, in moon mode, click off for 10 seconds. Turn on, it is in mode 2. Click it off for a few minutes, click on, mode 3.

etc……..

Suggestions on what to change? I have a stack of these that work. This one I reflashed, and replaced the OTC.


I have the same problem in one of my drivers. I think I need to run offtime-cap on his driver and adjust the settings in the firmware. Hopefully this solves the problem.

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/trunk/files/h...

ToyKeeper
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Usually that indicates a hardware problem, but the offtime-cap.hex firmware can at least help diagnose things.

I measure the OTC a few times at 0.5s, 1.0s, 1.5s, 2.0s, and 3.0s. This provides a good estimate of the discharge curve, and the values can be plugged into code to select whatever timing you like. Here’s a graph of three different drivers measured this way:

The blue line is close to ideal.

Of course, if you get 255 every time, the OTC isn’t working at all. Smile

bdiddle
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Yeah I think I might remove everything and rebuild the driver. Considering two different caps did the same thing, and reflashing did not help.

Or maybe just reflow the attiny.

Newb

vex_zg
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I didn’t read all 286 posts… but perhaps this can be useful:

The stencil for Attiny:

actually, when I was starting with attiny85 I learned that the legs can very easily be bent downwards, it takes probably less than 1 minute

That means that the actual footprint for the attiny13/attiny85 can be smaller than official contact pads spread – if you bend the legs downward – the contact pads can almost all be under the MCU itself, not extending so wide around it.

That would save some space on the PCB

wight
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bdiddle wrote:
Yeah I think I might remove everything and rebuild the driver. Considering two different caps did the same thing, and reflashing did not help. Or maybe just reflow the attiny.
If you test with TK’s firmware and find that it’s simply discharging extremely slowly for some reason (did you check the values / measurements on your resistors?) you could add a pulldown resistor from the MCU (ATtiny) side of the OTC to GND. High value, maybe 100k or something (I don’t know).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Pablo E.
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bdiddle wrote:
Question:

One of these drivers, loaded with the BLF A6 firmware, acts like it has next mode memory. Anytime I cut power, it moves forward. Does not appears to be related to time spent off.

So, in moon mode, click off for 10 seconds. Turn on, it is in mode 2. Click it off for a few minutes, click on, mode 3.

etc……..

Suggestions on what to change? I have a stack of these that work. This one I reflashed, and replaced the OTC.

I had a driver with the same next mode behaviour, and it was due to OTC and R1 were spined 90 deegress.

wight
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v014 was never published, here it is. Untested (would you expect any different? ;-)). “ 17mm DD + single 7135 v014 These updates are actually very old of course; I still haven’t done any updates to this board since I came back to the forum.

It’s got a star on the bottom which is hard to see due to OSH Park’s rendering. IIRC my star is barely within the OSH Park design rules. This is the same star I used on the A6 version, but apparently the Chinese fab wasn’t confident about producing it so they changed it to a more conventional / larger one.

I’ll note that the star is a potential dead-short hazard if you use a spring >11mm. If your spring is 11mm OD and you install it w/in the provided area you should see no problem. 12-13mm OD might fit but could easily short and a lot of care should be taken. What would anyone be doing with such a large spring anyway!?

Tom E wrote:
20mm…
pilotdog68 wrote:
20mm…
I didn’t want to be left out. Wink Here’s a simple expansion of the v014 17mm board to 20mm. “ [untested] 20mm DD + single 7135 v001

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

fatboy
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sub thanks

Tom E
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wight - was there a v013 in the 17 mm version? Latest I thought was v009, as in this OP. Could not find a 013 on OSHPark under your name, but Dale posted a v013 version. Any other changes of note between x009 and v014?

wight
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Tom E wrote:
Any other changes of note between x009 and v014?
That’s a fair question Tom E. The answer is I don’t think so. I can’t be positive of course.

v009 – last public release
v010 through v013 – all marked “group-buy_with-star”
v014 – schematic cleanup

v014 should be identical to v013. The Chinese fabs tweaked v013 a fair amount so most folks probably haven’t seen a ‘real’ v013 I think. Sending over the gerbers for v013 was probably my last involvement with the BLF A6 group-buy and I haven’t reviewed exactly what was changed for cheap-fab production. Obviously the star is different. I think silk was also changed.

v014 vs v009: Looks like the exposed copper was expanded a lot on the edges , the star was added, bottom silk now reflects the “A17DD-L” nomenclature vs the earlier name, the spring pad was changed significantly (hopefully to support common spring sizes? or maybe just look snazzy? who knows :-(), and consequently lots of silk locations were tweaked slightly on the top and bottom.

Do you have a link to Dale’s pic? I always enjoy looking at the built pics. I don’t think I have any v013 or v014’s here. I’m certain that I have not built one.



EDIT: I think that v14 is intended to be easy for 5mm or 11mm springs.
  • The OD of the inner spring pad is 6mm, which should be decent for 5mm springs/buttons or workable for 6mm brass buttons (doesn’t someone sell 6’s?) I wonder why I didn’t add some 0.5mm centering indents to help 5mm items stay put? Probably just because Eagle makes it a pain.
  • The ID of the four outer spring pads is 5.5mm. That’s probably a (big) stretch for 10mm springs but I think that it should be a good/decent fit for the 11mm OD springs. Clearly this isn’t suitable for mass production with the star there, but for hand assembly I think that the 4 point setup should provide an easy-to-build and attractive setup. I stand ready to be proven wrong of course.
  • To me this thing doesn’t seem very friendly for 8mm OD springs at all. There’s plenty of copper to scrape in a pinch. I’ll continue to think about how to make it attractive looking and have 8mm guides. I’m a slave to form..

For those who aren’t clear on why the OD of the pads are actually larger than the OD of the spring – it can be very difficult to get the soldering iron to heat the pad and spring nicely when there isn’t a bit of extra space on the pad.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Tom E
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Ohhh - think Dale's post on v013 was in the humongous BLF Kronos X6/X5 thread, long buried by 100's of posts by now, only hours later Undecided.

Thanks wight for the info! I do like the expansion outer tabs for the springs - definitely useful.

In the last couple days I used one of you 009's with a ATTiny85, pins bent in, and piggybacked to the stock driver. The stock driver had a blue LED on it that shines thru the rubber around an e-switch. So, I left the LED and resistor (also switch and charger connector) on the stock driver/contact board, and wired MCU pin #3 to the resistor of the LED. So far it's working great! Got some more tweaks to make to the Narsil firmware to fix bugs, and have it handle low battery alerts, but it's working real nice. Even with the wire on pin #3, I can still clip the MCU for programming because the bent pins elevate the MCU up. Would much rather have a pad for pin #3 on the component side for doing this, but you probably don't have space.

For me, using pin #3 as a jumper doesn't help - I got lots of configuration options in the UI of Narsil.

wight
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Tom E wrote:

Ohhh – think Dale’s post on v013 was in the humongous BLF Kronos X6/X5 thread, long buried by 100’s of posts by now, only hours later Undecided.

Thanks wight for the info! I do like the expansion outer tabs for the springs – definitely useful.

In the last couple days I used one of you 009’s with a ATTiny85, pins bent in, and piggybacked to the stock driver. The stock driver had a blue LED on it that shines thru the rubber around an e-switch. So, I left the LED and resistor (also switch and charger connector) on the stock driver/contact board, and wired MCU pin #3 to the resistor of the LED. So far it’s working great! Got some more tweaks to make to the Narsil firmware to fix bugs, and have it handle low battery alerts, but it’s working real nice. Even with the wire on pin #3, I can still clip the MCU for programming because the bent pins elevate the MCU up. Would much rather have a pad for pin #3 on the component side for doing this, but you probably don’t have space.

For me, using pin #3 as a jumper doesn’t help – I got lots of configuration options in the UI of Narsil.

  • Ah, thanks. I was able to find it based on that. The post you were referring to is #4869 and shows a “real” v13 from OSH Park. The discussion going on around/before that post seems to cover a lot of ground we’ve already covered. I think Sharpie had the Gerber viewer set with a layer missing. Wink Some points are still valid, even if they’ve been touched on before.
  • I agree with you – the star doesn’t do much for me except look cool. I don’t use stars.
  • Maybe later I’ll scoot things around on a 20mm board and break out the extra pins. I prefer to break them out when I can, but as you’ve mentioned space is at a premium.
  • Please be sure to report back on your results with those spring pads.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

giorgoskok
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I’ll post my question and the answer from wight here if someone is interested :

Quote:

Quote:
How can I decrease the amps the led pulls from the driver ?

  • Use a weaker battery
  • Reduce PWM from 255/255 to a lower number like 150/255. This won’t reduce peak amps (PWM on pulse) but will reduce average current.

ToyKeeper
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Tom E wrote:
For me, using pin #3 as a jumper doesn’t help – I got lots of configuration options in the UI of Narsil.

wight wrote:
I agree with you – the star doesn’t do much for me except look cool. I don’t use stars.

… and I don’t use stars any more either. It seems to have become an obsolete carry-over from nanjg days. But I sure could use a convenient pad to solder other stuff to, like an e-switch.

The tiny25/85 efforts have really expanded options, and reduced the need to actually open up the light to make changes.

dthoang
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giorgoskok wrote:
I’ll post my question and the answer from wight here if someone is interested :

Quote:

Quote:
How can I decrease the amps the led pulls from the driver ?

  • Use a weaker battery
  • Reduce PWM from 255/255 to a lower number like 150/255. This won’t reduce peak amps (PWM on pulse) but will reduce average current.

Another option is to choose a FET with higher on resistance. You will reduce peak current, get rid of turbo-to-moon blink, and save several dimes.

one year rookie

wight
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This might not be a great idea. I plead the fifth.

  • This is a Zener+resistor setup placed behind a polarity protection diode. Normally the polarity protection diode might cause our infamous boost problem, but with a 5v zener in place this should not occur. I expect that this should allow for a much smaller decoupling cap for the MCU… but I’ve been wrong before. At this moment I’m not actually certain whether this setup presents a quiescent current problem for single-cell momentary lights.
  • 17mm layout… which is a mess of course.
  • 0603 and SOD-323 sized passives.
  • 2mm via for positive.
  • This passes DRC.
  • Physical component keepout is 0.8mm rather than 1.0mm. Electrical keepout remains at 0.5mm.
  • LED- is smaller than I’d like.
  • GND vias are all placeholders.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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