[WIP] 15mm PAM2803 w/ ATtiny13A rough layout / possibility

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sinner
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I am not sure but dont these things tend to overheat , anything over 1A the IC’s need to be thermally bonded to the pill.. I used to have a bunch of constant current boost drivers for lasers and even for the 2.4a output two of them needed to be paralleled.

here’s a pictorial.

P.S: not my image.

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

HarleyQuin
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We’re talking about 1A output here, not more.
The PAM2803 is specified for 0.75A output. The Nanjg110 is overdriven already with a lower sense resistor (R100 instead of “R127”) and puts out ~1A in 2AA config. But this seems to be safe ground.
I have several Nanjg110 in household use (bunch of silver L2m with 1AA, 2AA in MiniMaglites) and none of them has died yet.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Rufusbduck
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Any chance of paralleling 2 boost circuits on one pcb and controlling them with one attiny 13A?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

HarleyQuin
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I hooked up the full setup (110, ak47, FET) with 2AA and got magic smoke from the PAM2803 Sad

The boost controller simply blew up. |(
It occured after one of the first mode changes, I’m not sure from which to which, it happened fast and unexpected to be honest. There seem to be some spikes…
It’s surely the controller that died, I just swapped this single component from a new 110 and everything is working again (with 1AA).

I’ll stick to 1AA for the moment unless anyone has a convincing idea what might be the cause and how to avoid this.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

HarleyQuin
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I found a nice diode for the job.

The stock SS14 is incredibly large while being not quite up to the job to boot (only rated for 1A while datasheet recommends 2A). As I looked for 2A diodes – all large as hell – I stumbled upon the BAT60A (datasheet).

Even rated 3A, only 370mV forward voltage, and SOD-323 package. It’s the teeny-tiny component on the right, where the cathode line uses up almost half the component. Oh, and the price… 10.5 ct.

I hooked it up in replacement and in the last days I drained 5× 1AA and 6× 2AA (Eneloops) on this driver, while monitoring input and output current. Works perfectly fine. Even increases output current in 1AA config and efficiency in 2AA config (needs a lower input current to reach the 920 mA). I’m truly impressed.

-

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

ImA4Wheelr
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^ Nice discovery.  You're doing some real R&D.  Thank you for reporting this.

EDIT: So far in my search pretty expensive with shipping.  Best I've seen so far is on Ali for $1.06/each.

pilotdog68
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Wow, impressive indeed. So what’s the current parts list?

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

ImA4Wheelr
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Found some at a good price here (50 for 4.95USD shipped).  Thanks for the info again.

RMM
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Rufusbduck wrote:
Any chance of paralleling 2 boost circuits on one pcb and controlling them with one attiny 13A?

Boost converters in parallel to the same load don't work (unless they are the type that are meant to be synchronized). 

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

ImA4Wheelr
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Received my order of 50 BAT60A's yesterday.  Won't have a chance to try them out until I wrap up my current project, but I'm excited about them.  They're so small.  Hard to believe they can handle 3 amps.

Thanks again for reporting your find HarleyQuin. Smile

djozz
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Thanks for the work on this driver guys, I do not have the background to be of any use but I sure would like to see this little  15mm boost driver come off the ground Smile

MRsDNF
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djozz wrote:
Thanks for the work on this driver guys, I do not have the background to be of any use but I sure would like to see this little  15mm boost driver come off the ground :-)

As djozz says. I appreciate the effort as well.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

dthoang
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RMM wrote:

Rufusbduck wrote:
Any chance of paralleling 2 boost circuits on one pcb and controlling them with one attiny 13A?

Boost converters in parallel to the same load don’t work (unless they are the type that are meant to be synchronized). 

What about paralleling them with blocking diodes in series between each boost circuit and the LED?

one year rookie

cajampa
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MRsDNF wrote:

djozz wrote:
Thanks for the work on this driver guys, I do not have the background to be of any use but I sure would like to see this little  15mm boost driver come off the ground Smile

As djozz says. I appreciate the effort as well.

+1 Smile

A good strong boost driver so we can drive 6v led’s with a single battery instead of 2 shorter ones, is one of the few missing things in our ever expanding modding arsenal Wink

ReManG
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Any updates here?

MG
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This is worth a bump from the peanut gallery — just to see if anything shakes out.

hank
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At this rate, we’re going to need
a speed loader for batteries …

(with, of course, a supercapacitor to hold brightness while the dead cell is kicked out and the next cell is rotated into position …)

And so, bandoliers of batteries …

H-Man
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RMM wrote:

Rufusbduck wrote:
Any chance of paralleling 2 boost circuits on one pcb and controlling them with one attiny 13A?

Boost converters in parallel to the same load don’t work (unless they are the type that are meant to be synchronized). 

What about if only the outputs are in parallel but the internals are separate?

I do horrible things to electronics in an effort to get them to do what I want.

Rufusbduck
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Maybe to a multi die led like mce or XHP where you can power one pair of die separate from the other. With the appropriate mcu different boost circuits could power each die of a color led but that’s a lot of circuit. In any case the advantage of small boost drivers is being able to run an led at low power from a primary cell for much longer than a recharge able li-ion whereas li-ions excel at shorter run, higher current applications. Trying to get enough current from a single alkaline to drive an led hard is like trying to carry a piano up a ladder backwards.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
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Could 2 pam2803’s be controlled by the at tiny to give two modes each with constant current rather than pwm control of an fet? Would need separate Rsense for each or maybe an ic switch to control separate Rsense only?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
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Rufusbduck wrote:
Could 2 pam2803’s be controlled by the at tiny to give two modes each with constant current rather than pwm control of an fet? Would need separate Rsense for each or maybe an ic switch to control separate Rsense only?
Good question RBD. Here are my initial thoughts:
  1. I barely remember how this works. Let’s see. The MCU runs off of the output from the boost circuit. That’s the weird and magical thing about these drivers IIRC. My memory of this simple circuit will need to be jostled, but that’s the first potential problem that springs to mind. We’ll have to think about this some more.
  2. Clearly two of these won’t fit into 15mm or course!
  3. Since you’re asking, am I to assume that nothing better has shown up? 1AA or 2AA boost circuits are still like hen’s teeth? Ugh….

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

MRsDNF
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Correct on number three wight. Hens teeth are common compared to the driver outlined.Smile

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Rufusbduck
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Switching between two sense resistors could work I just don’t know what ic to use for a low resistance either/or switch. Pwm might add inefficiency to an already challenged circuit. If low enough the internal switch resistance could be deducted from the Rsense values.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
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MRsDNF wrote:

Correct on number three wight. Hens teeth are common compared to the driver outlined.Smile

Silly Figures. I was hoping that there was some $2 Chinese panacea for this problem by now.
Rufusbduck wrote:
Switching between two sense resistors could work I just don’t know what ic to use for a low resistance either/or switch. Pwm might add inefficiency to an already challenged circuit. If low enough the internal switch resistance could be deducted from the Rsense values.
I don’t necessarily think that it’s a good idea, but IIRC a network of sense resistors and transistors may have been used on another boost driver. Let’s see if we can find it: comfychair – DQG 26650 driver hacking Since all the pictures are now missing from that thread, it is probably pretty hard to follow -> So take a look at these PDFs with the posts + pictures together. Big Smile Page 1 / Page 2 / Page 3

We could always play around and try something, but probably not in 15mm.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

MRsDNF
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There is a guy from CPF that has posted here about a driver for AA's thats close to being finished but could not find the thread here.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Tom E
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HarleyQuin
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thread de-hibernating… Smile
I’ll dig up what I got so far.
But allow for a minute or two.

.

Edit:
Every now and then I prodded along with this driver, but with other matters at hand I did not find the energy to post all my ups and downs. Just hoping to lure @wight into this again…

0:)

.

.
So this seems to work.
It’s Fasttech SKU1127407 (comes in blue now) with mods.
MCU changed to Attiny13a (which was pre-programmed)
Some MCU-traces cut (Pins1/4/5)
Rewired: Pin6 to Fet-Gate (red wire)
MCU+ is already connected to V+out
Rewired: MCU- to GND

MCU- of the original driver is connected to Fet-Source/PAM3. This did not work with the Attiny, it wouldn’t change modes.
Rewired MCU- to GND (black wire) and voila: 3-mode boost driver that did survive several 1AA and 2AA drains.

Still don’t know what the 2 resistors (103 / 18D) really do…

.

.
-*Unfortunately this did not work out…*
Modes do change, but output is flickering in all modes.
(just no time for debugging atm… Sad )-

((( EDIT: Rebuilding it did work, see posts further down )))

.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

MRsDNF
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Tom E wrote:
U mean this one? http://budgetlightforum.com/node/43955

Not that one Tom E. It was a low voltage driver that was nearly completed.

I think this is the same driver on CPF.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?373167-Build-Log-The-...

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Rufusbduck
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Would be nice to see that Fastech driver stripped and a schematic of the oshpark board.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
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@HarleyQuin – That looks like a bunch of good work.

  1. As you pointed out way back (nearly a year ago Sad ) in post #23, there is clearly a problem with my BRD (actually with my schematic). My schematic is very poor, but I have only myself to blame. I don’t think that I confused PAM2803 with PAM2805, but maybe I did? Who knows. I didn’t actually create PAM2803 a part in Eagle, I used another part with the same footprint. Maybe that’s how I got confused (all pins are labeled incorrectly of course Wink ). In any case, you are correct – the output cap should be elsewhere.
  2. Looks like you’ve done all the hard work for us.
  3. It’s too bad we can’t do better than 370mV, but at a glance you do seem to be right! With that in mind this inexpensive diode seems to be a good selection for the project.

I went ahead and ordered 3 fresh donor boards from FT.

Does anyone in the USA have a few of the schottky diodes to spare? I don’t want to mooch, but I also am not ready to place an order with Mouser/Digikey at the moment. I’d be happy to trade something to cover the parts and postage (mosfet(s), 7135(s), PCB, etc).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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