ebay: high seller rating in spite of fake products?

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vex_zg
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ebay: high seller rating in spite of fake products?

how do they get those >98% ratings when so much of what they sell is fake? Do they pump it up somehow ?

Bort
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They are very good at gaming the system, i’ll never forget the one review that a SK68 was not 1000 lumens as advertised and the seller responded that the customer was trying to get a freebee. I think a naive customer is not unlikely to believe that explanation even though a Q5 chip with an alkaline could never do that many lumens.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

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It is annoying how they are getting away with blatant lies and misinformation, but most buyers are not ‘Torch Enthusiasts’ like us. They simply don’t realise what they are buying. If it actually turns up, and actually works, and is actually much brighter than their old incandescent one, they are happy.

bibihang
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This thread has sparked a question of mine and I’m not sure if this has been asked and answered before. So technically we can always open a dispute to claim our money for the flashlight we received which is nowhere near the claimed “2000 lumens”… this way we can easily ruin the business of FT, BG, DX, WB… any Aliexpress/ebay budget flashlight sellers, right?

For instance I order a J18 with “4500 lumens” printed on its body, tested it and I got only 2500 lumens. Now I have all the rights to file a dispute in Paypal saying that FT is cheating me!

(P.S. As a flashaholic I understand that all the lumens claim of these budget lights is always off by too much (or completely Wrong). I just try to gather some opinions regarding this issue, not that I want to be an ***hole to go around and take advantage on things like this. J18 is a great light anyway. Smile )

vex_zg
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3 stories from me:

A while back I ordered 2 Samsung galaxy s3 batteries. Looked to me exactly the same as original. Now some 6 months later, both of them are swollen up, with very little capacity left. So what the heck, I open them up, and see that the seller actually only somehow put a “samsung” foil over a fake cell, which was rated at 1600mAh, instead of 2100mAh. I probably destroyed it fast by charing it up to 4.35V instead to 4.2V as it was designed for.

So I order one from a 99.8% seller, says GENUINE on the listing, and this time I receive a different, non samsung cell, says 2300mAh on it, I tested it to have around 1260mAh.

Few weeks ago, I purchased TP4056 charger boards, provided sample pictures and asked in advance “is it genuine….” ,of course I got fakes.

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vex_zg wrote:
3 stories from me:

A while back I ordered 2 Samsung galaxy s3 batteries. Looked to me exactly the same as original. Now some 6 months later, both of them are swollen up, with very little capacity left. So what the heck, I open them up, and see that the seller actually only somehow put a “samsung” foil over a fake cell, which was rated at 1600mAh, instead of 2100mAh. I probably destroyed it fast by charing it up to 4.35V instead to 4.2V as it was designed for.

So I order one from a 99.8% seller, says GENUINE on the listing, and this time I receive a different, non samsung cell, says 2300mAh on it, I tested it to have around 1260mAh.

Few weeks ago, I purchased TP4056 charger boards, provided sample pictures and asked in advance “is it genuine….” ,of course I got fakes.


With chinese sellers you have to assume it is fake unless proven otherwise, i would never buy a chinese battery, and i buy lights that are reviewed on BLF and batteries from stores that BLFers have found to be genuine (so far i have only bought batteries from intl outdoor and fasttech)

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

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For a while people were ‘selling’ say stickers or some other $0.01 items, to shills, or real, and then trying to scam on more expensive items.

When youre talking about a few dollars for an item, the scrutiny isnt the same as it might be for a $1000 item.

Feedback is often left soon after items arrive and will likely unless DOA be positive, then get a small amount of use. By the time problems arise, if its only a few dollar item, either the buyer loses interest in following it up, or time has expired.

As others have said, some people are completely uninformed. If its brighter than anything they have owned before, it must be awesome.

Just a coupe of possible explanations.

vex_zg wrote:
3 stories from me:

A while back I ordered 2 Samsung galaxy s3 batteries. Looked to me exactly the same as original. Now some 6 months later, both of them are swollen up, with very little capacity left. So what the heck, I open them up, and see that the seller actually only somehow put a “samsung” foil over a fake cell, which was rated at 1600mAh, instead of 2100mAh. I probably destroyed it fast by charing it up to 4.35V instead to 4.2V as it was designed for.

So I order one from a 99.8% seller, says GENUINE on the listing, and this time I receive a different, non samsung cell, says 2300mAh on it, I tested it to have around 1260mAh.

Few weeks ago, I purchased TP4056 charger boards, provided sample pictures and asked in advance “is it genuine….” ,of course I got fakes.


Wrappers for pretty much any popular cell are readily obtainable, and easily fitted. For all we know the wrappers themselves could even be ‘genuine’ as they are likely made in China.
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vex_zg wrote:
how do they get those >98% ratings when so much of what they sell is fake? Do they pump it up somehow ?

I think the simple answer is, ebay don’t really care. Until they are legally forced to clean up their act and be responsible for their sellers, they simply couldn’t give a toss.

There are pretty much no checks to create an ebay account, so with very little effort you could easily fake up ratings and feedback.

And I think there is a trend that if you have an issue, a seller will request you don’t leave negative feedback if you want a refund. In other words a form of entrapment. But they do this scaremongering so as to try and con others based on their good rating.

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Chicken Drumstick wrote:
vex_zg wrote:
how do they get those >98% ratings when so much of what they sell is fake? Do they pump it up somehow ?

I think the simple answer is, ebay don’t really care. Until they are legally forced to clean up their act and be responsible for their sellers, they simply couldn’t give a toss.

There are pretty much no checks to create an ebay account, so with very little effort you could easily fake up ratings and feedback.

And I think there is a trend that if you have an issue, a seller will request you don’t leave negative feedback if you want a refund. In other words a form of entrapment. But they do this scaremongering so as to try and con others based on their good rating.


I actually made a complaint to ebay regarding what I call feedback trading. Their response was that feedback was part of the transaction, and therefore it was correct that a seller might withhold leaving your feedback until you have left it for them, as they are responding to the entire transaction. I stated this was clearly prone to making feedback useless, and just makes people with 100% scared to offer true feedback. They again stated feedback was part of the entire transaction.

Personally I never leave feedback until the seller has. That means that sellers with thousands of feedback items often never leave feedback. As a seller, I leave feedback as soon as Im aware the buyer has paid, in my opinion that is as much as the buyer can be expected to do, and the only thing Im going to comment on in feedback.

IMO, feedback should be withheld by the system until both parties have left it. And it should be the seller leaving feedback when payment is received, and the buyer when (s)he has time to inspect and test the item(s).

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Another issue is, the little ebay do care about is only the process of selling the item, not the item in question, which makes any of the feedback pretty useless anyhow.

e.g.

When you record feedback it’s along the lines of:

How accurate was the item description?
How satisfied were you with the seller’s communication?
How quickly did the seller dispatch the item?
How reasonable were the P&P charges?

Ok description is a little vague. As a re-seller only lists what is claimed from whoever they bought the item from (maker/wholesaler, etc.)

But nowhere does ebay feedback ever ask you if the item was any good. Or about the specific item you actually bought.

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Bort
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tempo wrote:


that is awesome :bigsmile:

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

vex_zg
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hehe genuinely fake runners Smile

I just got a full refund for the samsung batteries, after stating that I have no plans of ever using them and I’d gladly send a video of their destruction.

The TP4065 guy is asking how much money do I want back, I said all of it, even though it’s less than 4$.. I feel a bit sorry for them because I’m arguing about such a low amount.

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tempo wrote:

so will they say that this product genuine FAKE? Big Smile

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zelee wrote:
tempo wrote:

so will they say that this product genuine FAKE? Big Smile


fake fake, counterfeit fake, knockoff fake, you got me

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

hank
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not to mention what you see when you ‘oogle https://www.google.com/search?q=counterfeit+trustfire
or similar searches.

I guess once everything is digital, “reality” becomes meaningless.

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Well, i ordered 14500 LiFePO4 batteries from *bay labeled 1200 mAh and on arrival they measured ~600 mAh, so i complained of false advertising, opened a paypal dispute and got 50% of the cost back. If everyone would do this consequently, this fraud business would dry out…

Aloha, Uli

vex_zg
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UliBär wrote:
Well, i ordered 14500 LiFePO4 batteries from *bay labeled 1200 mAh and on arrival they measured ~600 mAh, so i complained of false advertising, opened a paypal dispute and got 50% of the cost back. If everyone would do this consequently, this fraud business would dry out…

yep, we should all file disputes about false advertised and fake products, they are counting on us not doing it. Even though my wife just told me “leave the poor b***s alone, that money might be worth more to them than it is to you”

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You have to remember, Ebay don’t care, why would they, and they only pay lip service to stopping fake or counterfeit items.
Fake or real they still get a $$ cut, so why should they care.
Plus few companies are willing to really take them on.

I remember talking to the owner of a medium size company in Germany, about people selling fakes of their products on ebay and why didn’t he try and stop it, he simply said “ebay have bigger lawyer’s than we do”

Also often when you buy something genuine and it turns out fake, the seller offers a full refund as soon as you question it, on the condition you leave good feedback, what do most buyers do, waste a lot of time dealing with it and risk losing a paypal dispute?, or just leave good feedback take the refund and move on?, most take the latter

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I have mixed feelings about this.

I avoided ebay for years, but over the past six months or so, I’ve bought a lot of stuff from EBay.

I shop ebay looking for deals. I expect that any given item/transaction could be crap, and that over time, I’m going to have some bad experiences. I manage that risk by keeping my orders small and the items cheap. With the exception of a lot of untested (and very crappy dell batteries) I don’t think I’ve spent more than $30 or so in any one order, and I don’t think I’ve spent more than $25 on a single item. As a further mitigation, I expected that when I do get crap, some percentage of the time it will be redressed by the seller, or by paypal/ebay.

So far though, I’m actually doing better than expected. There were two USB bike lights that I won bids for that never arrived. Ebay quickly found in my favor. I’ve probably spend $5 on boards I thought would have a TP4056, but instead had a knockoff. A few items weren’t quite as described, and I quickly worked out a partial refund from the sellers. I also got a USB meter that didn’t work right. The seller sent me a new one right away. I just got an order of test leads that had apparently been confused with someone else’s. The seller told me to keep them and got me a tracking number on the replacement less than 12-hours from when I reported the problem.

So, as an informed consumer, I might buy something with inflated specs because I think I know what I’ll actually get, and find that is still a good deal. Having done that, it would be crappy for me to turn around and give the seller poor feedback.

On the other hand, I really wish EBay did provide a mechanism that would allow me to share my perspective with other buyers who might be interested in the same item from the same seller. Ebay would be more useful to me if I could better trust the listings, and the ratings.

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bibihang wrote:
This thread has sparked a question of mine and I’m not sure if this has been asked and answered before. So technically we can always open a dispute to claim our money for the flashlight we received which is nowhere near the claimed “2000 lumens”… this way we can easily ruin the business of FT, BG, DX, WB… any Aliexpress/ebay budget flashlight sellers, right?

For instance I order a J18 with “4500 lumens” printed on its body, tested it and I got only 2500 lumens. Now I have all the rights to file a dispute in Paypal saying that FT is cheating me!

(P.S. As a flashaholic I understand that all the lumens claim of these budget lights is always off by too much (or completely Wrong). I just try to gather some opinions regarding this issue, not that I want to be an ***hole to go around and take advantage on things like this. J18 is a great light anyway. Smile )

I see lots of sellers go with “manufactured rated” that way “they” are not misleading you. While we all know that in stock form lumens are a bit like gas milage, “your lumens may vary”.

Remimber most sellers are acting as independent distributors not manufactures, “they” did not build the light and as long as what then sent you matches the photo. On the other hand ebay as a policy sides with the buyers, (I noticed the aliexpress is not buyer centric) I have had buyers open a case not even bother to explaine what happend (totally bank) and still win a dispute.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

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vex_zg wrote:
how do they get those >98% ratings when so much of what they sell is fake? Do they pump it up somehow ?

There are two sides, If you dont know, Sellers can no longer leave negtive feedback for buyers on ebay. when this change went through it back open season on ripping seller off on ebay. (feedback used to be a mutually assured destruction) kind of thing. once the seller lost “negitive feedback every buyer had 100% feedback even if they were professional scammers. So ebay came up with feedback extortion so if a seller makes refunding money contingent on positive feedback, bingo they have breaced policy (the same goes for buyers).

Shre shill bidding happens they buy each others stuff and say how good it is (and loose the transaction cost).

Also they set up account and get x numer of good deals and then try t cash in and blow out some too good to be true deals that never ship. I have no idea if ebay gets there money back on thoes but at least the buyer does (after 45 days).

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

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eas wrote:
I have mixed feelings about this.

I avoided ebay for years, but over the past six months or so, I’ve bought a lot of stuff from EBay.

I shop ebay looking for deals. I expect that any given item/transaction could be crap, and that over time, I’m going to have some bad experiences. I manage that risk by keeping my orders small and the items cheap. With the exception of a lot of untested (and very crappy dell batteries) I don’t think I’ve spent more than $30 or so in any one order, and I don’t think I’ve spent more than $25 on a single item. As a further mitigation, I expected that when I do get crap, some percentage of the time it will be redressed by the seller, or by paypal/ebay.

So far though, I’m actually doing better than expected. There were two USB bike lights that I won bids for that never arrived. Ebay quickly found in my favor. I’ve probably spend $5 on boards I thought would have a TP4056, but instead had a knockoff. A few items weren’t quite as described, and I quickly worked out a partial refund from the sellers. I also got a USB meter that didn’t work right. The seller sent me a new one right away. I just got an order of test leads that had apparently been confused with someone else’s. The seller told me to keep them and got me a tracking number on the replacement less than 12-hours from when I reported the problem.

So, as an informed consumer, I might buy something with inflated specs because I think I know what I’ll actually get, and find that is still a good deal. Having done that, it would be crappy for me to turn around and give the seller poor feedback.

On the other hand, I really wish EBay did provide a mechanism that would allow me to share my perspective with other buyers who might be interested in the same item from the same seller. Ebay would be more useful to me if I could better trust the listings, and the ratings.

I know that was the feedback origional intent. ebay is not perfect but trust me it is better to be a buyer then a seller with them.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

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DO NOT USE eBay buyer "protection",unless you want to loose your money! Open dispute on paypal directly!

Here is my case,I bought this item cca 45 days ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160958163920?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPage...

from UK seller betteries2udirect.

Since he is in UK I expected 10-15max. delivery time(5-7days is usual delivery time from UK seller to me),but I got package after almost a month(and I really needed those batteries).I opened package and seller sent me 2x4 AA digimax NiMh batteries,instead of 2x9V NiMh,well just great.I opened a case,Seller told me that I need to return wrong batteries back to him,he will pay return shipping cost and ship correct ones to me.So I returned wrong batteries and paid ~15$ for tracked shipping,sent a note to seller about that,but interestingly,seller was quiet from that point and just ignored my questions about refund for shipping.About 10 days later he responded that he sent correct batteries,but still no word about 15$ refund for shipping.

But problems doesn't stop there;eBay sent me a notice that if I want,I must escalate this case before 06 Feb,or else it will be automatically closed.Ok,I click "escalate" button,but "Oops,we had a technical hiccup. Please try later..." message pops out.I tried several hours later,same message.Next day,same thing,several times.Next few days-same thing.Strange? Then I googled that same message and found that it's not a techical hiccup,it's a stupid eBay scam,because everything works fine,except that "escalate case" button.Next logical thing was to contact eBay and tell them about that problem.

But when you click "Contact us" on ebay page,select "buying",contact options-zero,not a freaking customer support mail for multi-zillion dollar webpage. Found "chat with us" under sellerMoney Mouth option on ebay.uk page,and after several "please,I will switch this chat to my colleague,this is his area",they promised me they'll resolve that problem and escalate case for me.After two days they did that,and they quickly closed the case in seller's favor,of course!I didn't even have a chance to defend my case.

In the meantime correct batteries arrived,but seller still didn't refund me 15$ for shipping,and of course he never will.

So,after seller cheated me,I leaved negative feedback with explanation,but after few seconds ebay automatically erased it,with explanation that you basically can't leave a feedback after the case is closed! But this is ok to eBay-less negative feedback-more buyers-more Money MouthMoney MouthMoney Mouth to eBay.

And if you look  seller's negative feedback profile,you'll see exactly the same thing for one buyer,no refund for return shipping,who knows how many people seller cheated,but eBay removed their feedback also.

So,the point is,if you have problems with eBay purchases,DO NOT USE eBay buyer "protection",open dispute directly on paypal.

 

DBSAR
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Ebay has become so bloated with millions of scammers and fake sellers they just can’t keep up with it, and ebay has become an open window for the millions of fake and crap sellers an opportunity to take advantage of the unwary and vulnerable general consumer & online shopper. Its their way of doing business, and ebay has so many bad loop holes to allow it.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

vex_zg
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led4power wrote:

DO NOT USE eBay buyer “protection”,unless you want to loose your money! Open dispute on paypal directly!

Here is my case,I bought this item cca 45 days ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160958163920?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPage...

from UK seller betteries2udirect.

Since he is in UK I expected 10-15max. delivery time(5-7days is usual delivery time from UK seller to me),but I got package after almost a month(and I really needed those batteries).I opened package and seller sent me 2×4 AA ………..

damn, thanks for sharing this one… my ebay buying has increased a lot, sooner or later I will run into similar issue.

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i thought they changed rule, so seller can not leave negative feedback for buyer,

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vex_zg wrote:
how do they get those >98% ratings when so much of what they sell is fake? Do they pump it up somehow ?

Personally under 99% for me is bad. After selling thousands of products, all these ratings get an average and in reality rarely you find someone with under 97%. I stick with 99 and something if i can find the product. I read plenty of feedbacks. Also a TOP rated seller is a plus. If you think about it, most sellers sell hundreds of DIFFERENT products. For example they sell good shirts and 1000 people buy these shirts and leave positive feedback. They also sell flashlights (which are clones and bad ones) but just a few people bought that ones and left a bad rating. If you make an average from that, in the end it will be pretty high Wink

led4power wrote:

DO NOT USE eBay buyer “protection”,unless you want to loose your money! Open dispute on paypal directly!


Doesn’t Ebay own Paypal? I heard it is kinda the same. Before the 45 days i always contact the seller. Even if the product is defective. The problem with their policy is that if they send you a bad/defective product, you HAVE to mail it back to the owner if you want a refund. This is bullshit! I had a bad experience over a product and i opened a dispute and they told me to send it back in order to get the money back, which would cost me the same as the product does, so i didn’t send it back. Now this annoys because it protects bad sellers. As far from all them, they could just send you a piece of rock in the box and later what can you do?
I know it sounds bad, but if the product is really defective and you have to throw it away, you should report it as “not delivered”. That way you will get your money back.
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DBSAR wrote:
Ebay has become so bloated with millions of scammers and fake sellers they just can’t keep up with it, and ebay has become an open window for the millions of fake and crap sellers an opportunity to take advantage of the unwary and vulnerable general consumer & online shopper. Its their way of doing business, and ebay has so many bad loop holes to allow it.

well said, this is exactly why i don’t use it anymore, most everything is a chinese knockoff, i assume everything is, and the odd genuine item is too rare for me to throw away money hoping to get.
If i were into vintage items i would consider it, things that have been out of production a long time, rare but not valuable, but i am still skeptical enough to usually not go after these items.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

vex_zg
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So I’m still in dispute over fake TP4056 charging board, total value of shipment is practically insignificant $3. We’re going in circles, unbelievable. Now the seller claims that they spend a lot of money shipping this. My wife told me I should leave them be, perhaps it’s a lot of money for them. I’m kind of angry that there are 100s of cases like this, with so many fakes and so many giving-up scammed buyers. What would you do?

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I would not give them an inch, they straight up lied to you that they where genuine, and then sent you something else.

It is not allowed (of course, but sometimes it looks like the sellers don’t even know that) to have pictures in the listing that is not of the actual product.

Those times i have gotten something other than was in the listing i have gotten a refund, if they refuse i guess you can always escalate, but even that i am unsure of now because ebay have changed the dispute process so many times over the years, it is hard to know what the current rules are, and it was a while i did it last time now.

But don’t let them get to you, this is all part of the game for the bad sellers out there, if they make it annoying enough for you, you think twice next time you get a bad product and then they have won.
Just learn to accept that sometimes you get burned the trick is not to let it affect you emotionally and just deal with it Wink

In the end we still save crazy amount of money by buying from the cheapest seller, i know i do Smile

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