ebay: high seller rating in spite of fake products?

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Ejected Filament
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It wouldn’t matter if they had to spend 10x the price on shipping. If shipping is that much of an issue, then more reason to ensure orders never need resending. Its on them, not you. Value has nothing to do with it, its a principle.

I mean dont do your head in but dont just not bother. I tmattered enough to post, so surely it matters enough to put it in PayPals hands.

mattheww
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My advice is never, ever, use bank transfer on PayPal®, always use a credit card. Basically when you allow PayPal to directly debit your bank account, you have a transaction in which you have no recourse. PayPal isn’t the seller, so PayPal didn’t commit the fraud. Even when PayPal screws up (and they do from time to time and debit your account more than once for a single transaction), they will NOT Accept any responsibility for the bank charges that result.

However PayPal is also a credit card merchant, and 9 out of 10 times if you dispute a credit card transaction with them, they will find in your favor. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong, it has to do with what happens to PayPal if their chargebacks (involuntary refunds) exceed a very small per centage. Rather than have that happen, they simply screw the seller.

While the PayPal terms an conditions say that you agree not to challenge PayPal charges with your credit card issuer, the reality is that Federal Law says otherwise. As a matter of law, a contract cannot override Federal Law, so any conflict between PayPal Terms and Conditions and Federal Law is automatically resolved in favor of Federal Law. Consequently as a buyer, if you use a credit card, you can almost always challenge the transaction with the Credit Card company even if PayPal refuses the refund. What PayPal is deathly afraid of is that chargebacks will exceed the threshold, and when that happens, the merchant bank (I believe it is Wells Fargo) begins holding a portion of the proceeds from credit card sales in escrow to cover potential chargebacks.

So my advice is to use a credit card for PayPal purchases whenever possible. In addition if you are a seller, have a bank account specifically for PayPal deposits, and move any money from that account to another account ASAP when PayPal desposits it. In addition, you can opt out of the eBay/PayPal refund scheme (by default they simply take money from your PayPal account and/or the bank account linked to PayPal), You can also opt out of PayPal’s binding arbitration in San Jose as well. I have done both, but you have to do so in writing.

vex_zg
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ok, not letting them go then. Although I do feel a bit childish, exchanging 20 mails so far over 3$, but after reading the other negative feedback, seems that is the strategy that the seller often uses, bore the buyer to death with endless emails not resolving anything.

The seller just tried to leverage feedback with the refund.

vex_zg
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Update: now I understand how their ratings are unrealistically high, it’s basically scamming, and unless you agree to their terms, you can’t get your money back.
After 40 fruitless emails this is how far we have come:

ebay seller wrote:
hello thank you for your reply but could you please revise the feedback for us first and then we refund to you? if so, we can send the request feedback revision to you. warm regards
cajampa
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Interesting, yeah it looks like ebay’s case procedure have recently become much much worse Sad

I just this week tried to file a case against a bad seller how sent me something that didn’t match the listings pictures, at first i sent a message to the seller because i thought it was an honest mistake, when he didn’t respond i asked for a refund or a correct item resend through the resolution center, but when he still refused to respond i tried to ask ebay to step to help me out, but that doesn’t seem to work at all, all i get is error messages.

Ebay’s case system is totally broken, i never thought i would say this but i miss aliexpress’s system, when a seller have tried to cheat me there i have always gotten my money back quick & easy.

Ejected Filament
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Dont recall, and dont want to reread, but did you use PayPal? If yes, just run the complaint via them. Tell them eBay is broken, and youre done with trying to make that broken system work. Now youre expecting PayPal to function as it promises to do so. The seller is demanding you lie about feedback in order to get what youre entitled to.

In the end you want the feedback to stand, its worth $3 IMO, but should not cost you $3. Id go via PayPal and give the eBay process a miss as its a joke, it seems. As yet Ive not had to deal with it.

cajampa
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Sorry i don’t think you can do that, at least not in my case.

When i tried to open a paypal case i get a error message that tells me that i should use ebay’s resolution center……..the same that doesn’t work……sight Sad

led4power
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One more old story:

My friend needed battery for his camera as soon as possible(<20days),so I ordered from "UK" seller,price is of course ~3x more expensive than Chinese sellers,but because of urgency,I didn't have choice :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281122946574?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%...

from seller memorycard777.

As usual I expected <10days shipping time,but that didn't happen.Item arrived after 18-19 days(so 1-2 days before it would be useless),and there was china post customs declaration on envelope.So seller didn't ship items from UK,but from china,classical dropship,but item's location on ebay was clearly stated:UK,so that a lie.

Because of that,I leaved negative feedback about real china location,so other buyers can see it,and soon after that seller offered me ~50% refund,just to remove that feedback.I refused that,and leave a note to seller that I'll remove negative feedback only when he change item location to real one(china). Soon after that obviously desperate seller offered me 100% refund,if I remove my feedback!Sad thing is,I'm sure many other people took the free money and removed similar feedback,but I told him the same thing:change the item location,and then I'll remove negative feedback.He didn't do that,of course.

If you check seller's listings he still claims that he ships items(price is 2-3x than china ebay sellers) directly from various eu coutries-Germany,France,UK,Spain... and he makes a lot of money simply because of that small "item location" lie.

And that's ok to ebay also,obviouslyMoney Mouth

fireblade893
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led4power wrote:

One more old story:

My friend needed battery for his camera as soon as possible(<20days),so I ordered from “UK” seller,price is of course ~3x more expensive than Chinese sellers,but because of urgency,I didn’t have choice :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281122946574?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%...

from seller memorycard777.

As usual I expected <10days shipping time,but that didn’t happen.Item arrived after 18-19 days(so 1-2 days before it would be useless),and there was china post customs declaration on envelope.So seller didn’t ship items from UK,but from china,classical dropship,but item’s location on ebay was clearly stated:UK,so that a lie.

Because of that,I leaved negative feedback about real china location,so other buyers can see it,and soon after that seller offered me ~50% refund,just to remove that feedback.I refused that,and leave a note to seller that I’ll remove negative feedback only when he change item location to real one(china). Soon after that obviously desperate seller offered me 100% refund,if I remove my feedback!Sad thing is,I’m sure many other people took the free money and removed similar feedback,but I told him the same thing:change the item location,and then I’ll remove negative feedback.He didn’t do that,of course.

If you check seller’s listings he still ships items(price is 2-3x than china ebay sellers) directly from various eu coutries-Germany,France,UK,Spain… and he makes a lot of money simply because of that small “item location” lie.

And that’s ok to ebay also,obviouslyMoney Mouth

Looking at the page you listed he does list UK as item location

Item location:
Jersey, United Kingdom

However at the bottom he does list his location as Hong Kong

Business seller information
memorycard777
Hiu Sin Yung
Rm 714, Hiu wo House, Hiu Lai Court
Hong Kong

Ebay is getting to the point where I don’t want to use it nowadays

Ronin42
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As soon as he offered money in exchange to feedback he breached the “extortion” policy I would say report him to ebay for mis represening AND the extortion, it only taks a few and ebay will pull his account.

If you want to hit him where it hurts get his account pulled, THEN he will not misrepresent his products.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

led4power
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That was over a year ago,and I didn't know about that policy.Can I see my messages and feedback older than 1 year on ebay?I can't find that option.

Bort
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Inspired by this thread

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Lancman
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Just found another example – looks like a fake Skyray SR5 to me.

Daft thing is you can get the genuine article for similar money.

LED Boatguy
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A few years ago, an Airbus A320 jetliner along with several CFM56 engines went missing in China. China’s not-yet-certified C919 looks an awful lot like, yup, an A320.

alpg88
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i had the same thing happen to me, item listed in usa, in about a week i get tracking, the item was comming from china. it came 1 month late, i opened up a dispute before that, while the tracking was showing item was still in china, (for like 3 weeks ) once i got the item, i gave the seller negative feedback, and closed the case. he changed his name next day, but my negative feedback followed him on his new account.

Buwuve
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Lancman wrote:
Just found another example - looks like a "fake Skyray SR5":http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bright-Skyray-2200LM-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-18650-Fl... to me. Daft thing is you can get the "genuine article":http://www.keygos.com/product_info.php?products_id=902 for similar money.


It's funny to read about clone of the Skyray, because it's also a cheap copy of the Lumens Factory Seraph SP6 (also available in titanium). Here is a small review about it. It's one of the most beautiful p60 hosts I know.

Light up the darkness.

Lancman
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Buwuve wrote:
It’s funny to read about clone of the Skyray, because it’s also a cheap copy of the Lumens Factory Seraph SP6 (also available in titanium). Here is a small review about it. It’s one of the most beautiful p60 hosts I know.

So it’s a copy of a copy – sheesh, it gets better and better.
Ooooh that SP-6 is shiny! I like it. Not so keen on the price though.
On the other hand this host looks good value if their shipping charges are reasonable.

Ejected Filament
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Lancman wrote:

So it’s a copy of a copy – sheesh, it gets better and better.


Copy of a copy of a copy of a clone of a fake is almost standard practice.
snakebite
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most folks cant test those whateverfire batteries and dont have a quality cell as a runtime reference.
same with many other items.no reference,it works,so positive fb and all fives on the stars.
going through this now with some chargers that are significantly not as described.and flat out dangerous.
charges at 4.30 v but takes a week to get there.
seller dug his heels in,offered a $2 refund,ect.
all one can do is let ebay deal with it and neg then ding stars.and describe in feedback what you can in the space allowed.

vex_zg
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So some time later, i’ve received some more fake items

TP4056 Charing boards
Fake “Samsung” batteries

For all of them I have asked prior to shipping if they are genuine and they were confirmed. I spent more than reasonable amount on time on this, because I wanted to see “how deep the rabbit hole goes”, on items as cheap as these. After this, NO WAY that I would buy anything valuable on ebay.

for cca 50% of them I got refund. Some did not reply, and some went into circular conversations on purpose to make the buyer give up on his claim. Some Insisted on positive feedback BEFORE they would refund.

Ebay is of NO HELP, they claim it’s buyer’s responsibility to pay return shipping, even though the buyer has essentially been robbed by misleading and lying seller. Ebay support takes ages to get, is usually semi informed, without understanding the case particularities, basically they don’t get involved at all and don’t care.

Paypal is of NO HELP because they also want the buyer to return shipping. Even though you select “counterfeit item”

Bottom line: Use with caution, be prepared to lose money, buy only cheap items, from sellers with very high rating (>99.5 IMO). The ratings are to be taken with caution because as I have experienced, sellers sometimes extort feedback by denying refund unless you change it to positive.

snakebite
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open a case through ebay.
state exactly what the problem is in plain english.no slang,jokes or other bs.
if the seller digs in,offers silly partial refunds,demands you pay shipping for not as described items just escalate.
in the case of the dangerous chargers from lucky*007 ebay gave him a opportunity to send a call tag or pay for the return which he ignored.
after 5 or so days i got an automatic refund.i let it go too long.next time at the first hint of seller playing games its straight to open a case.

vex_zg wrote:
So some time later, i’ve received some more fake items

TP4056 Charing boards
Fake “Samsung” batteries

For all of them I have asked prior to shipping if they are genuine and they were confirmed. I spent more than reasonable amount on time on this, because I wanted to see “how deep the rabbit hole goes”, on items as cheap as these. After this, NO WAY that I would buy anything valuable on ebay.

for cca 50% of them I got refund. Some did not reply, and some went into circular conversations on purpose to make the buyer give up on his claim. Some Insisted on positive feedback BEFORE they would refund.

Ebay is of NO HELP, they claim it’s buyer’s responsibility to pay return shipping, even though the buyer has essentially been robbed by misleading and lying seller. Ebay support takes ages to get, is usually semi informed, without understanding the case particularities, basically they don’t get involved at all and don’t care.

Paypal is of NO HELP because they also want the buyer to return shipping. Even though you select “counterfeit item”

Bottom line: Use with caution, be prepared to lose money, buy only cheap items, from sellers with very high rating (>99.5 IMO). The ratings are to be taken with caution because as I have experienced, sellers sometimes extort feedback by denying refund unless you change it to positive.

cajampa
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I don’t understand the “Ebay is of NO HELP, they claim it’s buyer’s responsibility to pay return shipping”

That has not been the case for me at all. I have gotten full refund plenty of times and never had i been asked to send back the faulty item.

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