Nichia NCSU276A U365, a rough test (april 25th 2016, test updated)

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djozz
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Nichia NCSU276A U365, a rough test (april 25th 2016, test updated)

Edit 4-25-2016: I re-did the output test of this led using my improved method, result in post #23.

              

This is an output test of one of the three fairly new Nichia UV leds (each comes in several wavelengths). This one has a dome and is the 'high efficiency' version (max current 700mA, 365nm version is 780mW@500mA), the others are a 'high power' (max current 1400mA, 365nm version is 1000mW@1A) and a 'mid-power' (700mA max current, 365nm version is 148mW@500mA) version, and the appearance of each is quite different. I chose this one because of good output and not the least because it is 20 euro's cheaper than the high power one. The peak output is at 365nm. I payed 37.90 euro's plus 6 euro's shipping from leds.de (Lumitronics). It came on a 10x10mm miniboard and I sticked for the test to that board because the led has no separate thermal pad but the two-pad lay-out that is the same as the Nichia119 series. So no DTP-copper-board adventures here unfortunately.

The test set-up was the same as what I did with the Royalighting RY-3535P UV-led: the ledboard was mounted on a cooled copper mount, a reflector was placed on top, direct on top of the reflector a piece of copier paper, then a plastic aspheric lens for some collimation but mainly to stop residual UV-light getting out in the wild, and last at 13.2 cm above the lens (why 13,2 ? Undecided) cm a luxmeter. Here's a picture of the set-up copied from the other thread:

I will compare the output results of this led to the Ledengin LZ1 365nm led and the Royalighting led, but mind that everything is nothing more than a rough approximation: I never did a proper output test on the Ledengin LZ1, during the Royalighting RY-3535P testing I measured the LZ1 output at just one current, and that one current was round and about 1A (the led was inside a flashlight with a boost driver, I measured the current once), and used a different reflector (should not really matter much though). Furthermore for this Nichia test I used a different piece of copier paper (although of same brand and batch) and who knows how constant the fluorescence output of copier paper is from piece to piece???

So take the following data as 'ballpark' numbers, any output claim can easily be 10% off (the voltages are precise though, and currents are not far off). I plotted the new Nichia results into the graph from the Royalighting RY-3535P thread, for comparison:

*So what are we looking at? Say that the Ledengin LZ1 was indeed 1430mW@1A (according to specs that is), then the Nichia at 500mA would be 49% of that, so 700mW, not far from the 780mW from the specs. Actually I do not deserve such close results with these very unprecise measurements Wink . The maximum output of the Nichia, at 800mW, would be about 950mW.

*I now realise that I made a mistake in the Royalighting RY-3535P thread, I used 1000mW as the spec'ed LZ1 output at 1A, while it is 1430mW, the 1000mW was at 700mA. Sorry for that (did anyone notice?), and I will correct that over there. It increases the maximum measured output of that chinese uv-led to 600mW instead of 420mW. Oops!

*Clear is that this Nichia performs way better than the chinese led, the voltage stays low, the maximum output is better and at a way lower current, it is almost 3 times as efficient!

*the Nichia can not handle much higher current than 700mA continuously. The voltage is hardly going up at all in the entire range (setting the current on my power supply was not easy because of this) and after having been at 1A, the performance at lower currents had gone down a bit (a few %). So my advice for this led: stick to 700mA max! (I can not relate to the quality of the Lumitronics ledboard used here, I assume it will perform standard for a non-DTP ledboard)

*the Ledengin LZ1 has the better output, but mind that this Nichia has a die that is about 4 times smaller, so the luminosity of the Nichia led is way higher: for what that is worth, it will throw much better. (left=Nichia, right=Ledengin)

 

Next step is building this led into a flashlight and do some illuminiation shots. I can already tell from playing with this led at 50mA with a led-tester (as was also the experience from mash.m over at CPF)  that the amount of visible light is way less than the Ledengin and Royalighting leds. Combined with the smaller die, for me that that makes this Nichia led preferable over the Ledengin LZ1, but a bit of visible light might be useful for some occasions.

tobecontinuedwithilluminiationpictures..

Edited by: djozz on 04/25/2016 - 10:34
Hestbech
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Subscribed!
I’m sooo looking forward to see the differences in visible light. Star

Btw. The amber was send this morning. Hope you won’t get disappointment by the small amount. So I shipped a small surprise with the amber …

It would be dandy if birds pooped candy ::
djozz
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Hestbech wrote:
Subscribed! I'm sooo looking forward to see the differences in visible light. Star Btw. The amber was send this morning. Hope you won't get disappointment by the small amount. So I shipped a small surprise with the amber ...

If you follow the CPF-link, mash-m made some banknote shots that show the difference quite well: the Ledengin LZ1 gives off a dim white-ish light apart from the UV, this Nichia almost nothing.

I'm looking forward to uv-test the amber Smile

wight
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Interesting stuff. Thanks djozz.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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Again nice work. Thanks heaps.Smile

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

shrike3612
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Subscribed!

And Nichia UV is best choice if someone want to find UV light.

I want to make triple Nichia UVs if there is compatible triple 20mm mcpcb.

Is there any mcpcb for Nichia UV? Nichia UV’s footprint was changed to two side not three pointed footprint like Cree LEDs.
That is not good for me.

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djozz
I’m looking forward to your results. The Nichia is too pricey for me with the shipping from Germany so my next UV light will be another LZ1 but inside a TrustFire Z6 this time since your LZ1 zoomie inspired me. I got some glass lenses coming to try out since UV and plastic lenses don’t work as well.

You also inspired me with your MCPCB mods so I will be modding a Maxtoch XML 26mm MCPCB for a LZ1. But before I can do that, I have to figure out how to remove the frackin’ driver. :~

Subscribed!

wight
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shrike3612 wrote:
Subscribed!

And Nichia UV is best choice if someone want to find UV light.

I want to make triple Nichia UVs if there is compatible triple 20mm mcpcb.

Is there any mcpcb for Nichia UV? Nichia UV’s footprint was changed to two side not three pointed footprint like Cree LEDs.
That is not good for me.

You know that you can’t use a triple optic right? (not with UV)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

shrike3612
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Oops! I didn’t know about it.

Would you tell me why triple lens can be accept UV LEDs?

Thanks
Kim.

wight wrote:
shrike3612 wrote:
Subscribed!

And Nichia UV is best choice if someone want to find UV light.

I want to make triple Nichia UVs if there is compatible triple 20mm mcpcb.

Is there any mcpcb for Nichia UV? Nichia UV’s footprint was changed to two side not three pointed footprint like Cree LEDs.
That is not good for me.

You know that you can’t use a triple optic right? (not with UV)
wight
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shrike3612 wrote:
Oops! I didn’t know about it.

Would you tell me why triple lens can be accept UV LEDs?

Thanks
Kim.

UV is 10nm to 400nm light. The triple lenses are made of polycarbonate (PC). If you look at polycarbonate light transmission graphs you’ll see that PC blocks <400nm light.

That is why. The UV will not go through the polycarbonate lens. You must use glass or other materials.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

shrike3612
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Thank you for your advice. It is very helpful!

I’d better to make UV LED only single die with reflector not triple.

wight wrote:
shrike3612 wrote:
Oops! I didn’t know about it.

Would you tell me why triple lens can be accept UV LEDs?

Thanks
Kim.

UV is 10nm to 400nm light. The triple lenses are made of polycarbonate (PC). If you look at polycarbonate light transmission graphs you’ll see that PC blocks <400nm light.

That is why. The UV will not go through the polycarbonate lens. You must use glass or other materials.

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shrike3612 wrote:
Thank you for your advice. It is very helpful! I'd better to make UV LED only single die with reflector not triple.

=much cheaper too Smile !

djozz
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shrike3612 wrote:
Thank you for your advice. It is very helpful! I'd better to make UV LED only single die with reflector not triple.
wight wrote:
shrike3612 wrote:
Oops! I didn't know about it. Would you tell me why triple lens can be accept UV LEDs? Thanks Kim.
"UV is 10nm to 400nm light.":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet The triple lenses are made of polycarbonate (PC). "If you look at polycarbonate light transmission graphs you'll see that PC blocks <400nm light.":https://www.google.com/search?q=polycarbonate+transmission&es_sm=93&tbm=... That is why. The UV will not go through the polycarbonate lens. You must use glass or other materials.

I can confirm the graph in practice: plastic lenses almost completely blocks 365nm light and glass transmits almost all of it. I had to buy a glass lens for my Ledengin LZ1 365nm zoomie for it to work.

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Very cool.  Thank you for sharing.  djozz, your work is excellent, as usual.  Smile

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Jubeldum
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djozz wrote:
Next step is building this led into a flashlight and do some illuminiation shots. I can already tell from playing with this led at 50mA with a led-tester (as was also the experience from mash.m over at CPF)  that the amount of visible light is way less than the Ledengin and Royalighting leds. Combined with the smaller die, for me that that makes this Nichia led preferable over the Ledengin LZ1, but a bit of visible light might be useful for some occasions.

tobecontinuedwithilluminiationpictures..

Illuminiation shots please. Just skip any bathroom illumination pics. :Sp

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ImA4Wheelr
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^
I just received the above light. Its the best UV LED I’ve come across, but it puts out much more white light than I expected. Even after adding one of those zsomething filters. Asked my wife if she also saw a bright whitish hot spot. She said she did too. Her eyes are 11 years younger than mine. Seems unlikely we both could see into the upper UV spectrum. Even with UV googles, the hot spot is pretty bright.

Doesn’t seem better than the cheaper 365 emitters I have purchased other than the output level. Unfortunately, I don’t have any other UV lights to compare to at the moment as my wife lent them to one of her co-workers. I do have a couple different emitters that I can use to build new lights with.

The emitter looks similar to the pictures above, but I haven’t closely compared it yet.

Serp
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In the Convoy from GB nichia is not god soldering

http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showpost.php?p=839893&postcount=642

djozz
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
^
I just received the above light. Its the best UV LED I’ve come across, but it puts out much more white light than I expected. Even after adding one of those zsomething filters. Asked my wife if she also saw a bright whitish hot spot. She said she did too. Her eyes are 11 years younger than mine. Seems unlikely we both could see into the upper UV spectrum. Even with UV googles, the hot spot is pretty bright.

Doesn’t seem better than the cheaper 365 emitters I have purchased other than the output level. Unfortunately, I don’t have any other UV lights to compare to at the moment as my wife lent them to one of her co-workers. I do have a couple different emitters that I can use to build new lights with.

The emitter looks similar to the pictures above, but I haven’t closely compared it yet.

If you look at this post, you can compare how your led looks like. If the white stuff between the die-lines has disappeared, much more white light is emitted. I’m pretty sure that it is caused by the led overheating at some point, in my case the ledboard was floating because I did not tighten the pill well enough, or the solder job could have been bad, like Serp showed.

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Serp wrote:
In the Convoy from GB nichia is not [good] soldering !http://forum.fonarevka.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=161127&stc=1&thumb...! http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showpost.php?p=839893&postcount=642

[/quote]

 

???  It looks like what little paste was there never even fully reflowed. 

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Thanks Serp, djozz, and RMM. Mystery seems solved.

Well, it’s still the best UV light I have. Time to beef up the thermal path with something like this.

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RMM wrote:

Yep.
It was removed by hand from the base star.
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I bought a Convoy S2+ flashlight with Nichia 276A U 365 in a good deal and used the host for another build, so I had a new led spare for re-testing ( I ruined my original 276A U365).

 

I have improved the method a bit since the OP ( http://budgetlightforum.com/node/45696 ), it is a bit more standardised, and can now compare this Nicha with two other recent 365nm leds that I have recently tested with the same method. The new method is inaccurate in the sense that it assumes that the percentage of the total light output that is emitted in a 90 degrees forward beam angle is for all tested leds the same. This creates an inaccuracy but I have not yet figured out how to circumvent that. As long as the optical geometry of the led is similar across the tested leds (the usual small die with half circular silicon dome) I expect the assumption above to be reasonably valid and the leds can be compared like this. But in no way, this method has the accuracy of my method of testing visible leds.

 

Here's the comparison:

 

 

So the Nichia beats the l4p led but has less output and current capability as the Liteon led.

*the Royalighting 365nm led that is still available at intl-outdoor and is used in one of the Jaxman U1 flashlight versions is not in this test but from my old tests I can safely assure that its performance is under that of the l4p led.

*The Nichia has no thermal pad so can not be mounted on a DTP copper board, instead it was tested on the aluminium board it came on. Because of an observation from Serb above, I unmounted it and reflowed it again before the test to be sure it was reflowed well. Testing on the aluminium board is fair because there is no easy option to use the Nichia in a better heatsinked way.

*This method does test the amount of light around 365nm, but it does not test the fact that the Nichia emits way less visible light than the l4p led and the Liteon. This is a quality feature of the Nichia, but since the availability of the UV-pass filters that work very well (ZWB2 filter), for flashlight use it is not so much an advantage anymore.

*my standard output unit for 365nm leds has of course a relation with the output power in mW, but that relation needs a calibrated multiplier that I have not established yet. The Liteon test in the other thread suggested a multiplier of 16.5 (based on measured output and the specsheet), and the specs of the Nichia 276A (780mW at 500mA) suggest a multiplier of 25 which is in the same ballpark but srtill quite far off. More tests of specified leds are needed before I dare giving the output in milliwatt instead of my standard unit.

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Hi djozz,
thanks for this very informative post!

djozz wrote:

*The Nichia has no thermal pad so can not be mounted on a DTP copper board, instead it was tested on the aluminium board it came on. Because of an observation from Serb above, I unmounted it and reflowed it again before the test to be sure it was reflowed well. Testing on the aluminium board is fair because there is no easy option to use the Nichia in a better heatsinked way.


After Serps picture I’m quite nervous about the emitter of my own Convoy UV flashlight, have you found an indication that the emitter of your flashlight was also badly reflowed?

You tested the NCSU276A up to 1.2A, AFAIK Nichia specifies it only with 500mA, right?
Is it safe to drive it with 700mA in the UV Convoy on the aluminium board?
I remember I’ve read on the Nichia Website about mounting a UV-LED on copper but I’m not sure it was about this specific UV-LED. Would there be a benefit from a copper MCPCB even without DTP?

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owner of the flashlight write that centering strip is glued to the star and keeps LED
when replacing the glass to the filter is fall apart
https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=...

This is the second case.
I did not open my.
In any case, if it is possible, it is better to re-solder

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Hi, I bought Convoy S2+ with this LED from GB 3 months ago. I’ve used it few times, not more than 5-10min one time. The flashlight get hot after few minutes of use, so I thought heat dissapation is OK. I’ve noticed problem with my Nichia NCSU276A. There is brown spot in the centre of structure…

Brown part of structure (without white cover) emits less UV Sad And there is a donough in the spot Sad

Do you think I should try write to GearBest ? Where can I get a new LED in resonable price ?

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Did you have tested the Nichia LED on the custom board you sell?

Does it improves cooling so output can be more at 1A?

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Lexel wrote:
Did you have tested the Nichia LED on the custom board you sell?

Does it improves cooling so output can be more at 1A?

No, I have not tested it, I do not have loads of these leds around. My impression that generally it is a good idea to maximise cooling of leds, but the output peak at 800-900mA is so sharp that I do not think that the decline of output over 900mA is mainly because of thermal reasons, it may just be the maximal output capability for this type of die regardless of temperature.

So my prediction is that you gain just a little bit of output when a better board is used. (I have been wrong before though Smile )

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Nichia updated the 365nm 276A led. Now there is the 276C with 35% more output at the same currents.

link to spec-sheet

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Thanks for the update. Maybe you have the chance for a nice updated competition test between the LG LEUVA33W70RL00 and the updated Nichia 276A? Wink The results might be interesting for building high yield UV flashlights (e.g. C8F Triple UV) without need for an additional ZWB2 filter in place.

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It seems not for sale anywhere yet, so it will have to wait. Maybe I will collect a bit more UV leds like last time and then test a series.

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