Convoy S2 - help me understand some terminology

LED Flashlights – General Info Multiple AAA Flashlights
1

Recently I’ve seen the various Convoy flashlights mentioned in thread, folks seem to like them and feel they’re a good value. I really like the look and size of the S2 that I see pictured. So that would be my first question, in regards to the S2; is it really a good flashlight i.e. well made, durable etc.

Second thing is the various options I see offered on various sites. I confess I don’t understand the differences between the various options offered. As an example, FT has this listing for $16.13:

S2+ U2-1A 2800mah

vs. this for $13.89:

S2 U2 –1B 1050

So I’m guessing the first one is better and if so…why? What does the ‘+’ mean? What is U2-1A vs. U2-1B? And which is ‘better’? And what does the mah mean?

Sorry for so many questions but well, if I don’t ask then I’m not going to learn. The difference is like $4 from top to bottom so really what would be the best combination for a bright, sturdy, long lasting light? And I do like the 5-mode btw.

Thanks :slight_smile:

2

And sorry, thought I’d posted this in the 18650 section :frowning:

3

S2+ is shorter than S2 and has a shorter reflector, so the beam will be floodier with less throw. S2+ has tailcap cutouts for easier access to the switch.

The S2+ you linked to has a newer generation of CREE LED emitter - the XM-L2. The S2 you linked to is using an older XM-L. The newer generation LEDs are brighter and more efficient. U2-1A describes the bin and tint - do you prefer a cool white, a neutral white, or a warm white? Mah stands for milliamp-hour and that usually describes the capacity of a battery. Ma is milliamp and that would describe the current of the driver. More current will be brighter and hotter.

4

Same function between the two. S2 and S2+ are different hosts (bodies).

The S2 has a deeper reflector (more throw??)and a different tailcap.

The emitter is a model bin designation and color temp. The 1A is cooler (allegedly more white but some people see more blue) than the 1B

The difference between the 2800 and 1050 is amperage. More amps = more light + less battery time (I prefer most possible and use lower mode)

Difference in money is because they can get it. No real difference in production cost...literally pennies. Neither is better than the other.

Edit---------------------

XPL is brighter than XML2 which is brighter than XML

5

Thank you, that explains quite a bit. :slight_smile:

6

I have a number of Convoys. Overall I think they are great. General machining, fit and finish is superb. As is output and beam quality. The only real difference vs premium brands is the interface. The S series are simple one button UI’s. Although offer two groups. Basically it’s H-M-L and you can choose if it has blinks modes or not.

The different options are for two main things:

-emitter brightness bin and tint
-driver current

As standard most flashlights, budget and premium are cool white emitters. But those in the know will usually opt for neutral or warm white emitters as they simply look nicer when being used. The different letters/numbers after the emitter name are these.

With regards to output current. The more current the more lumens. But the lower the run times and the more heat. If you only have the light on for short periods then the 7135*8 is the one to go for. This has 8 x 7135 chips on it and will offer up about 2.8 amps to the emitter. But it does get hot fast. Using Medium is fine, but it’s quite a drop in output.

If you want to use High for extended periods then a 5 or 6*7135 driver might suit better. Slightly lower output, but less heat and longer runtimes. This means you can run it on high for longer.

7

Here is a review of the S2+

8

Actually not necessarily.

My understanding is a deeper reflector usually does two things:

  1. it narrows the width of the spill beam. This is because the LED is further back in the reflector so the rim of the light blocks line of sight to the emitter earlier.
  2. It brightens the corona. The corona is the brighter portion of light outside the spot, but inside the spill. The deeper reflector focuses more light outwards, but this extra light is at somewhat of a different focal point and doesn’t add to the throw. Instead it helps make for a stronger corona just outside the spot.

To increase throw, you need a wider reflector … not a deeper one. A wider reflector captures much more light from the same focal point and is the primary factor in increasing throw.

9

I have both the S2 and S2+ and I love them both. You really couldn’t go wrong with either and one is not clearly better than the other…it all about preference.

However although they look similar, the S2+ is much floodier and the spill is huge in comparison. But I believe the S2 throws a bit further. For me personally, I prefer a floodier beam for my EDC and use the S2+ a lot more.

Like the others suggested, I’d recommend the 2.8 amp qlite driver and just use the lower modes to extend run time. But if you really value run time, a less powerful driver is much more efficient on max than a more powerful driver on the lower modes.

The Convoys really have a great build quality…often much better than lights costing much more. If you want to get a Convoy, I’d recommend getting it straight from the owner of the company than getting through Fasttech. You can PM him…he goes by “convoy-flashlight” here.

10

I have a 2.8A S2+ and a 1.4A S2 and the S2+ is of course brighter than the S2. But to be honest I only really notice it playing around doing side-by-side comparisons. Even though the S2+ draws twice as much as the S2 to my eyes it only 25% or so brighter. The S2 was definitely enough light for me when I was in the jungles last year. Run times are approximately double on the S2 but it all depends on which modes are being used.

Both lights are great and well made and I think you’d be happy with either one.

11

the drivers are 7135 based, when you see 7135*4, it has 4 350 mA chips on it, if it says 7135*8, it has 8x350mA chips which makes a 2800mA/2.8A driver which is twice the potential of a 7135*4 driver. I've recently(the last couple days) been messing with 7135 chip stacking, and I don't believe the chip count to light output is linear. Say for example, 7135*4=500 lumens... A 7135*8 =/= 1000 lumens and a 7135*12 =/= 1500 lumens. It's more like 7135*4=500, 7135*8=750~800 7135*12=1000ish?! all numbers are just examples, just trying to explain my point. The 7135 chips allow current to flow through them, so they really just open up the potential for more light. im still just getting my ears wet so don't assume I actually know anything, just sharing my experiences.

honestly if I was going to buy another S light I'd go for an xml2-t6-3c with a 7135*8 driver. The color rendering is much nicer and real(compared to actual daylight color rendering on the eyes) and the lumen loss from t6-U2/u3 is negligible, if anything the t6 may or may bot even be close to the same lumens due to lower forward voltage. I don't quite understand vF yet.

Link to Simons ShenzenElectronics store.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/330416

if you want to get one a little faster check out the s6 from mtnelectronics but I think they only had 7135*6 :( I would have bought a couple more s5/s6 from him if he offered 7135*8...probably go for an s5 host anyway soon.

oh, a 7135*8 is going to take a solid 5-10 minutes on high mode to get hot... i don't know who would need that much light for that amount of time. They have potential to get really hot after 15 minutes but realistically your going to be using low or medium 9/10 times and high only in Short bursts. I put 13 350mA chips and 3 380mA chips on a circuit board, then stuck that in a s6, and it did manage to get pretty dang hot pretty dang fast, probably less than 3 minutes and it was scalding hot, but the light output wasn't increased nearly enough to be worth it with an xml2-u3-1a on aluminum. i think 12 is a good number lol.. The only time I had my s4 scalding hot was when I had it tail standing on high, thought it was low mode, for about 20 minutes, maybe longer. That's the only time its been too hot to handle.

these are floody lights, no ifs ands or butts about it, a smooth reflector will pick up a couple hundred foot of light though, available through the aliexpress store. They say only certain models but they fit the s4, and I'll bet they fit most of the others as well.

12

Given the same diameter reflector, the deeper one will add to throw. A longer reflector creates a narrower beam of light for the same reason a wider reflector creates a narrower beam. That is because the distance of the reflective surface from the LED is directly proportional to the beam angle.

The wider angle light adding to the corona size that you mention, is reflected from the base of the reflector and that is due to the close proximity of the LED to the reflector. But, there is also a narrower beam of light created at the far end of the longer reflector and that is due to the reflective surface being farther away from the LED than it is with the shorter reflector. So, in addition to less spill and a larger corona, you get a narrower beam. Overall, the average beam angle stays about the same but the total light thrown forward is greater.

13

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve looked him up here and went to the Aliexpress link in his sig line. Here’s what caught my eye:

Convoy S2+ Black Cree XML2 U2-1A AMC7135*3 2-Group 3/5-Mode EDC LED Flashlight

I see where you can upgrade it, but actually like the default parameters.

LOW VOLTAGE WARNING Yes
OUTPUT CURRENT 1050 mA

FLASHLIGHT MODES Group 1: Lo (5) > Mid (40) > Hi (100%);
Group 2: Lo (5) > Mid (40) > Hi (100%) > Strobe > SOS

LIGHT SOURCE BIN XML2 U2-1A
LIGHT SOURCE BRAND Cree
LIGHT SOURCE COLOR 6500-7000K
LIGHT SOURCE MODEL XM-L
LUMENS (MAX) 500 LM

If I did the math correctly, using a 2600mah 18650, I should get 2 hours 47 minutes on high, 6 hours on medium and 49.5 hours on low with a draw of 1050ma, 420ma and 52.5ma. This would be an EDC light so I’m looking for a satisfactory level of brightness (up to 500/200/25 lumens is quite a bit for practical purposes in my opinion) with a maximum of run time.

14

Before I place the order, does anyone know if he (Simon) offers a coupon code?

15

Go for a 4*7135…I have the 18350 version running 1400 mA…make a TON of light…but only has 800~mAh in the battery…running wide open can get about 30-45min…but I usually run it at low or medium [It’s my EDC and in my right pocket…I usually don’t run it wide open for extended periods more for the occasional “I gotta see something” and not like a long run time S&R or whatever light…even though it is capable of it

The XM-L2 emitters are more efficient at lower currents…at 1A the light will be adequate but a bit underpowered

The Convoy S series (tube lights) will get “warm” at 2100mA, at 2800mA if left on high it will get VERY hot, but this is why I like the STAR firmware and the ability to auto throttle from turbo back to a more sensible PWM of approx 50% duty cycle [approx 1400mA draw)…thus mildly reducing the light output (you can barely see the light step down) but it increases the run time substantially.

at fasttech you can use “BLF” code for 5%

16

Is there going to really be that big of a difference (brightness) from 1050ma to 1400ma? This is suppose to get around 500 lumens which isn’t bad at all for a solid EDC light and I like the 40% and 5% step down modes. My thinking was good usable light while leaning towards maximum run time.

If I need brighter light I have an F13 and a A8 that are like spot lights. Those are my camping lights.

17

Okay, pulled the trigger and ordered this light :slight_smile:

18

The 2 mode groups drive me crazy since I often use low in short bursts, though.

19

Oh yeah if you wanted a 500~ lumen long time running light…then 1050mA will fit the bill for sure

20

That’s what I’m thinking. Right now in my EDC bag I have a Sipik SK68 and a Maglight XL50. My reasoning for this choice was that if I needed a bright light the Sipik (using a 14500) fit the bill nicely. But of course the run time wasn’t anything to get excited about so I had the XL which has a good run time on the low setting to cover my bases from that perspective. Well this convoy should easily replace the Sipik in the line up as it should be even brighter but also provide more options with it’s modes. Like I said above, if I did my math correctly, I should have a 49 hour run time at 25 lumens if needed and a high mode that is at least equal and then some compared to the Sipik both in lumens and run time. I’ll continue to have the XL as the back up because it’s a well made light, bright enough for most EDC needs and uses the common AAA.

And hey, it was a good ‘justification’ to get a new flashlight :bigsmile:

My wife asks me, ‘how many flashlights do you need’? I ask, ‘how many shoes do you need’? We both smile :wink: