XHP50 De-dome = Yes?

34 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK
XHP50 De-dome = Yes?

I tried de doming a XHP50, (i assume XHP70 is going to be the same) in short it failed.

like the MTG2 i can’t see any bond wires, and like the XPL it has a white layer under the dome round the edges however unlike the XPL’s white layer it has another layer of phosphorus under the white layer,where i see a glimpse of a gold bond wire..

i tried a petrol de dome and a de dome with heat and knife both failed but cant see why

with petrol de dome some of the phosphor floated off, (like if you do a petrol de dome on MTG2) and only 2 of the 4 dies light up.
with the heat de dome none of the phosphor came off, but no dies light up.

! photo IMG_1436_zps9awy1pac.jpg!
Both emitters

! photo IMG_1438_zpsorpupl4l.jpg!
Petrol de dome

! photo IMG_1437_zpsl1znseai.jpg!
Hot de dome

! photo IMG_1439_zpsv3bajwjx.jpg!
working de dome

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

Edited by: 3Tronics on 02/25/2015 - 14:36
gaston01
gaston01's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/16/2013 - 18:26
Posts: 296
Location: Buenos aires, Argentina

Ups I regret this :_(

Sorry for my bad English…

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

very interesting. I probably wouldn’t have tried this myself, but now I know for sure I won’t.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

zeremefico
zeremefico's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 03/27/2012 - 02:44
Posts: 1390
Location: Greece

Money saver thread.

₪₪₪₪ ΟΥΔΕΝ ΚΡΥΠΤΟΝ ΥΠΟ ΤΟΝ ΗΛΙΟ ₪₪₪₪

My YouTube channel

Flashlights & edc gear

K40M F16

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Thanks for trying, sorry you didn’t succeed Sad

I hope someone figures out the trick to get these dedomed successfully, maybe some other solvent like acetone or tinner could work.

How long did you have it in gas to get the 2 dead & 2 working dies? maybe it can help to narrow down what leaves all 4 working by the solvent/gas method.

Did you slice the dome slightly before hand, i know that is a popular way to get a quicker gas dedome.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 13 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17986
Location: Amsterdam

Thanks for trying, what a peculiar build with the white layer over the phosfor layer!

I do not see a good reason why you would want these dedomed, they were not going to throw anyway, so I would go for maximum output, which is with dome on.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

One reason I hope someone succeed with successful dedome of the XPH’s,
is that we don’t know how it will change its features because no one has done it yet, for example i have read several account that the MTG2 looks even better tint & color wise after a successful dedome.

And maybe the XPH’s doesn’t loose much of their lumens from it, i am just curious to know how it will function without the dome Smile

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

cajampa wrote:
. And maybe the XPH's doesn't loose much of their lumens from it, i am just curious to know how it will function without the dome :)

I don't think that you'll see anything fundamentally different from dedoming an XPH than you would from dedoming an XP-G2, XP-L, or XM-L2.  They are both phosphor layers with a silicone dome.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

I can’t figure out why there’s a phosphor layer below the White layer.. Odd.

I always buy a couple of the new emitters when they come out and try and de dome them, if Im successful I sell them on my thread!

I think they would be good de domed, You could say the same thing about MTG2 de dome, it’s not a massive thrower and you could just keep the dome on for max output, but people still buy de domed ones off me (It also might get rid of that dark cross in the beam seen with the 4die emitters)

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 days ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

Thank you for taking 2 for the team.   I figured these would dedome like xlm's.  Boy was I wrong.   If you can't dedome one, I know I don't have a chance.  Thanks for the report and for saving me and others money.

downlinx
downlinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/09/2014 - 09:38
Posts: 1292
Location: Indiana, USA

djozz wrote:

Thanks for trying, what a peculiar build with the white layer over the phosfor layer!

I do not see a good reason why you would want these dedomed, they were not going to throw anyway, so I would go for maximum output, which is with dome on.


just to say it can be done or not done.

BLF Community Battery Pull Thread http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32720

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

I’ve got a third one I’ve not touched yet, but I’m thinking of the best way to go about de doming it Big Smile
I think it’s possible if I can stop the phospher layer coming off somehow!

I don’t know if I’m being a bit dim, but I’ve just looked at the die (new dome on one) with welding goggles on, and only 2 dies light up? This is with it mounted on a XML Noctigon so 6v config
(Direct drive with 2 18650 cells)

What’s the deal?! Am I just being stupid?

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden
RMM wrote:

cajampa wrote:
. And maybe the XPH’s doesn’t loose much of their lumens from it, i am just curious to know how it will function without the dome Smile

I don’t think that you’ll see anything fundamentally different from dedoming an XPH than you would from dedoming an XP-G2, XP-L, or XM-L2.  They are both phosphor layers with a silicone dome.  

I am surprised that you would say that, because i know you know well how many more options we have in builds by dedoming or not dedoming the various emitters we have available.

Are you not the least bit curious if for example like James postulated that maybe XPH’s when dedomed would have much less of a cross/donut artifact in the beam or if it loses lumens similar to the XM-L2 or like some here say less like the XP-L when domeless.

Anyway i look forward to the day when someone here succeed so some of these questions can be answered Wink

EDIT
Another good reason to possibly want an dedomed XPH is now with the short supply in the beginning of production, if the XPH’s would show to dedome nicely as in stay true to the BBL and not get overly green or yellow or lose to much lumens, one could start with an CW of high flux bin and make an warmer version of it just like we do with the other emitters, but with the limited selections now it opens up a lot of options.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

James3 wrote:
I’ve got a third one I’ve not touched yet, but I’m thinking of the best way to go about de doming it Big Smile
I think it’s possible if I can stop the phospher layer coming off somehow!

I don’t know if I’m being a bit dim, but I’ve just looked at the die (new dome on one) with welding goggles on, and only 2 dies light up? This is with it mounted on a XML Noctigon so 6v config
(Direct drive with 2 18650 cells)

What’s the deal?! Am I just being stupid?

How strange…..maybe your gasdedome didn’t fail but your mounting did? did you check that one with welding glasses before you gas dedomed it? maybe it was 2 dead from the start………

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

My comment referred to your question about efficiency.  You will still lose efficiency without the dome.  

The cross isn't going to disappear; you've still got four individual dies with space between them.  The apparent distance will decrease dedomed, but it will still be there.  This is why you can't compare the XPH series to the MT-G2.

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

the gas de dome failed because the phospher came off, the dies still lit up (2 of them) all 3 worked before de dome, mounting can’t have failed because there’s only 3 pads (thermal,positive,negative) it’s not like the sinkpad XHPs where the pos and neg are split in half
I don’t know, I’m stumped.

I checked all 3 before de dome but only the 1 after with welding goggles, but they all seemed of the same brightness to eye, which would mean they all had 2 dies only lighting up

I’m working on the third one now to see if I can do it!

Anyone any ideas on why only 2 dies lighting up at 6V?!

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

You might need to resort to the slice method. Best if you can find an appropriate shim to use as a guide for the blade to get an even smooth cut, lubricate the razor, and make the cut in one sliding motion rather than back and forth saw cuts.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden
RMM wrote:

My comment referred to your question about efficiency.  You will still lose efficiency without the dome.  

The cross isn’t going to disappear; you’ve still got four individual dies with space between them.  The apparent distance will decrease dedomed, but it will still be there.  This is why you can’t compare the XPH series to the MT-G2.

The reason I compared the XPH dedome to the MTG2 was when people started to dedome those some found out that the quality of the light got even better after dedome that was unknown before that. Most of the other cree emitters gets worse with an apparent less CRI & often time less nice tint, i want to know how the XPH are going to appear.

And i understand that the 4 dies characteristic aren’t going to disappear, but what we don’t know is the practical implications of a smaller cross artifact, it could be that more reflectors & host will look nice enough with a dedome for example, if a simple dedome can be developed that is Smile

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

ok, I’ve done it!
a little messy yes.. but thats because i cant remove that white layer, the bond wires are underneath that, ill work on it and see if its possible to clean up and make it look tidier

still have the 2 die problem though!

! photo IMG_1439_zpsv3bajwjx.jpg!

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

James3 wrote:
ok, I've done it! ... still have the 2 die problem though! !

Are you talking about the "2 die problem" where 2 dies don't work?  If so, I'd say that's a pretty big problem. 

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

Yeah I’d say so as well, can’t figure out why though?!

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Did you slice this one?

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

No, I sliced the dome off the top so it was flat, then used gas to get rid of the rest the phospher didn’t come off this time, must be all about timing in the gas with this one

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

I’m guessing a bond wire broke when slicing(partly why I suggest lubrication, other part is cleaner cut). It’s also possible a pad on one side of the substrate didn’t wet to the Noctogon and you’re only getting current through half the die. Did you test it before dedoming?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

At any rate, thank you for sacrificing your time and money for what I like to call "BLF Science".  Sealed

Like they always say, "someone has to take a hit for the team." Yell

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

Success!
I switched onto a different MCPCB and we have power to all 4 dies!
It is possible to de dome an XHP!

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 13 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17986
Location: Amsterdam

Congratulations!

Now I'm going to recheck a XHP50 on which I lost two dies as well, see if a fresh reflow will revive iit

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Nice, that is some very interesting news Smile

Maybe your other 2 XPH50’s can be revived also?

3Tronics
3Tronics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 825
Location: UK

Nope the other 2 can’t be revived, one has missing phosphor, (in gas to long?) and the other looks like broken bond wires (hot de dome)

Custom builds | Modifications | Powder Coating 
Gallery: Instagram

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

If the silicon floats in gas then maybe put the mcpcb in face down so the phosphor won’t lift off with dome bits. Just a though, maybe irrelevant.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Have this way ever been tested on the MTG2? first slice then a quick gas dedome for the rest…….if it works as good as on the XHP50’s maybe thats an safer way for them also.

Pages