who is buying me a XP-E2 Torch led? Update: DBCstm did, test is in post#81

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n10sivern
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That K40 is impressive

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

cajampa
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DBCstm wrote:
Without charging cells up, I’m seeing 1649 lumens on the K40. 376.75Kcd.
The Trustfire 12x shows 137.25Kcd.

Again though, the cells have been used, the Trustfire more so than the K40.

Thanks Smile

ImA4Wheelr
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Thank you Dale for the follow up and the beam shots.  I was just certain that you would swap out the boost driver for direct drive.  I know you mentioned frying some xpe2's in that 4 up, but figured you'd give it a go in the 12 up.  Now that I think about it, the 4 up was just one cell.  So I see why would didn't go that way with 6 cells.

Hard to put the beam shots in perspective, without knowing emitter current but it would be a real pain in the arse to set up and measure in that light.

RMM
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Thank you Dale for the follow up and the beam shots.  I was just certain that you would swap out the boost driver for direct drive.  I know you mentioned frying some xpe2's in that 4 up, but figured you'd give it a go in the 12 up.  Now that I think about it, the 4 up was just one cell.  So I see why would didn't go that way with 6 cells.

Hard to put the beam shots in perspective, without knowing emitter current but it would be a real pain in the arse to set up and measure in that light.

Just measure one of the two strings.  Since they are in series all of the emitters see the same amount of current.  With that boost driver it doesn't matter if you have 100% charged high drain cells.

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

luminarium iaculator
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I am not following this forum very well since I did not seen this before. Thanks for this.

DB Custom
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With 3 of these Torch emitters left over, I got busy on an old project today. I used one of the Torch emitters on a 20mm Noctigon. I used the driver out of my new XR55 from Bangood, 7 7135 chips at 380mA. Engaging a star gives me L-M-H with no blinkies so I’m good with that. These went into a Courui D01 assembly, the head replaced with the massive Ledil Seanna. :bigsmile:

I didn’t even measure amperage, gotta be less than 3A, 2.8? So it’s making some 200+ lumens, right? How about a 357Kcd throw from this little hot rod? Wink

nofearek9
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any new places to buy the xp-e2 torch ? (prefer free shipping) more specific looking for 1A tint.

MRsDNF
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Mouser still has them. l got a few last week.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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They take a longer solvent dedome time for the dome to lift itself clean, time lapse shows about 8 hours on one, where an XM-L2 is about half that time if that. It’s just because there’s more dome material sealing between die and chip on a small die.

Phosphor is extremely fragile on Torches, near edges especially. You do not want to even touch the phosphor or it will dent and leak 455nm light.

Recycling works good on them, but the reflect focus is that much harder to get right because the target is so small, need a lot of patience to nail it. The RA needs to be within 0.1mm of center and that’s actually conservative because 0.1mm off-center can miss up to 20% of total die surface on return absorb pass. I turned one E2 Torch die to spotted black at only 3.15A mounted on solid bar stock with a lab supply pretty quick, so run them just like a standard E2 at 2.5A. They have high thermal resistance and they do not care for any more than 2.6A max sustained with a proper sink. That should net up around 420-450 lumens, dedomed.

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

shrick
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MEM wrote:
They take a longer solvent dedome time for the dome to lift itself clean, time lapse shows about 8 hours on one, where an XM-L2 is about half that time if that. It’s just because there’s more dome material sealing between die and chip on a small die.

Phosphor is extremely fragile on Torches, near edges especially. You do not want to even touch the phosphor or it will dent and leak 455nm light.

Recycling works good on them, but the reflect focus is that much harder to get right because the target is so small, need a lot of patience to nail it. The RA needs to be within 0.1mm of center and that’s actually conservative because 0.1mm off-center can miss up to 20% of total die surface on return absorb pass. I turned one E2 Torch die to spotted black at only 3.15A mounted on solid bar stock with a lab supply pretty quick, so run them just like a standard E2 at 2.5A. They have high thermal resistance and they do not care for any more than 2.6A max sustained with a proper sink. That should net up around 420-450 lumens, dedomed.

Hi MEM. If I may ask… As far as I know you make use of chemical dedome methods? I’ve been skeptical about this, and this is just my perception, regarding what the chemicals will do to the ‘extremely fragile phosphor’. I still do heat dedoming, just for this reason, none else. The fact that chemical dedoming takes longer, is not an issue to me. Will you give your opinion on this, regarding the effect chemicals have on the phosphor and the quality of the dedome? I’d like to be convinced to start trying chemical dedoming…

Theres also some other questions I have related to this:

  • What chemical mix do you use?
  • I’ve seen some ugly / bad chemical dedomes? Should there be less residue, related to the dome itself, when doing chemical dedomes?
  • Can you give an indication how long the different LEDs take to chemical dedome? It seems the XP-E2 takes around 8 hours, XM-L2 around 4 hours? How long does XP-L take and which other LEDs can be safely chemically dedomed?

Thanks

MEM
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shrick wrote:

Hi MEM. If I may ask… As far as I know you make use of chemical dedome methods? I’ve been skeptical about this, and this is just my perception, regarding what the chemicals will do to the ‘extremely fragile phosphor’. I still do heat dedoming, just for this reason, none else. The fact that chemical dedoming takes longer, is not an issue to me. Will you give your opinion on this, regarding the effect chemicals have on the phosphor and the quality of the dedome? I’d like to be convinced to start trying chemical dedoming…

Theres also some other questions I have related to this:

  • What chemical mix do you use?
  • I’ve seen some ugly / bad chemical dedomes? Should there be less residue, related to the dome itself, when doing chemical dedomes?
  • Can you give an indication how long the different LEDs take to chemical dedome? It seems the XP-E2 takes around 8 hours, XM-L2 around 4 hours? How long does XP-L take and which other LEDs can be safely chemically dedomed?

Thanks

I will gladly give my opinion. Smile I know that a Cree phosphor is physically weak. I have witnessed zero evidence after hundreds of de-domes that the phosphor is chemically weak against common plastic/rubber solvents. If you put a LED in a solution, it is your duty to watch it and prepare to remove it when ready. While I’ve seen zero evidence that chemical solvents effect phosphor in any way, of course you can make it turn ugly. Just leave it in solution for 2 weeks and come back. Smile The only thing I have ever seen showing a chemical de-dome changing anything on an LED, is a light brownish/orange tarnish that appears on the package metal, not the phosphor, by leaving it in for well past 8 hours (10-12 hours will usually show some light tarnish on the silver in some area, so don’t wait).

Is phosphor removed in a chemical de-dome? No.

Is phosphor removed in a hot de-dome? Around here, all the time. Smile

Why would I poke, stab, and prod a hard material (made to take heat) that is attached to a sensitive material, when I can pour liquid on the LED, and watch the dome remove itself, nearly perfectly?

I did a de-dome last night. Cree XM-L2. Complete edge swell occurs within 20 minutes. In 1.5 hours, I can probably safely “touch” the dome and it will drift off. But I want the LED clean. If you bought a light that was advertised as de-domed, and chunks of the dome were all around the die when you got it, I bet you would be more interested in the guy’s lights who don’t leave that crap there for you to look at. I would be. So I expect a clean de-dome myself. I don’t cut corners when I have to do next to nothing to make it right. I’ve never been in a situation when I said to myself, “oh no, a de-dome is needed within 10 minutes or we are gonna lose this light”. If I bought the LEDs, I knew long ahead of time they were being de-domed, while they traveled in the mail to me. So when someone says, but I don’t have the time…some of us just don’t view time the same as planning I guess. Smile

There’s no set time for a de-dome in any LED. Play it by eye. When the dome is detached and ready to float away, remove it. Larger domes have more surface area and take in more solution more quickly, creating more swell that pushes and then becomes buoyant, thus lifting quicker most of the time. This applies to square dies, MT-G2s are a different story.

I’ve tried all kinds of chemical solutions, methods, experiments in setup and positioning, when it comes to chemicals and dedoming. I can always over-complicate something if I try. But with this, for you guys, there is zero need to. It hasn’t changed over the years. I don’t know what genius got mad at gasoline, but you maybe shouldn’t have listened when he spoke. Acetone = poor. Paint thinner = poor. Gasoline = great.

As for the time lapse, I did one, and my IP cam froze a half hour in, like it loves to do when I need it most, always because of a buffer cache I forget to change from default. So I have the very beginning of video, and some of the rest, but I’d rather just make another video that’s complete instead of posting the segments. So I’ll do that, again, correctly. I de-dome about every other day so it’s no problem. Regardless, my standard camera works just fine, so I took photos of full-swell of the dome at 2.5 hours in gasoline with no tricks involved. This should however prove that whoever says gas doesn’t work, either isn’t trying, or isn’t doing something right—and I don’t know how can you mess up something as simple as pouring fluid in a glass. Not even the bond wires have material stuck to them, so I’ll never have a desire to do it the hot way. Sorry, but that’s just me.

After the first photo, I touched the dome with a zip-tie and it drifted right off the LED. Here are the photos:

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

luminarium iaculator
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Hi MEM,

Yes that is perfect de dome method Smile Thanks for sharing and posting all those pictures.

I told several times in few threads that Tom-E gasoline method works far best for me, and I really tried every other mentioned methods here. Yes gas de-doming changes emitter tint towards green if left plenty of hours/days or weeks(i tried).

But I do them in less than 50 minutes. No any tint shift. I leave residues around emitter wires that are fairly thick(if left up to 50 minutes, if left more than 1,30 hours they start to crumble) and they protect wires(probably not needed but I tend to leave them).

The most important for me that there are no junk leftovers on phosphor layer because it messes my aspheric die projection. Not so important for reflector lights.

MEM did you tried XP-E2 de doming? It should be much harder than XM-L2 cause silicone is harder.

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Hi MEM… Excuse my late reply. Thanks for your informative feedback, lots appreciated. Ok, so you’ve convinced me to start experimenting with gas dedoming, thanks Smile As mentioned, the time it takes to chemically dedome is not an issue to me. I believe in patients. It normally pays off. It seems also in this case, but, the proof is in the pudding. I’m starting with some experiments soon. Will reply with my findings.

Just to confirm, do you experience a 100% success rate with gas dedoming, in terms of not loosing LEDs related to ANY defects?

And, regarding the MT-G2s. Is it a long procedure? If possible, can you comment on this?

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Hi MEM - little late posting, but very interesting... (scratching my beard). I could feel vindicated from your post, I suppose. I started believing all the hoopla bout bad gas/good heat, etc., and experimented a little with heat, but just can't get good and consistent at it.

To each his own of course, and many feel very comfortable with the heat method - it's quick when you do it right. Obviously I wasn't the first doing the gas method, but helped make it more mainstream here.

You do though, make me feel sooooo much better - I'd been thinking I led so many astray...

Thanks MEM!! Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays!!!

luminarium iaculator
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Gas is absolutely no. 1 method for me also.

At summer days dome fells of at approx 55 minutes, at cold days after 2 hours. So obviously temperature plays its role in how quick will dome fall off or how fast silicone will decompose.

My domes never float fully... I try with toothpick to see if it is ready for compressor air cleaning. After some practice you simply know when to take it out (like with cooking and everything else Smile )

No tint shift if done fast. Look at my tint with gas dedome with newest B158 50mm aspheric(340kcd):

I got similar numbers as most guys that modded it (KKW, Djozz).

MEM
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Thanks for replies guys, I appreciate the feedback. I also had completely missed Shrick’s post, sorry Shrick. Sometimes the email method of trying to follow my BLF updates gets a little congested and hectic when I’m still marking the loads of spam out of my email inbox, and I don’t always catch my subscriptions that get new posts. I’ve been rushed lately. You all know, X-mas, it gets us all tied up whether we like it or not. :santa:

Then there’s this other thing. “Budget”? Let’s see: The belief that something is needed because its price is lower than normal. That’s my definition for products I find while lurking here and the web in general at X-mas time. Smile I think I just bought out every deal over the last 4 days on “good” lights that might take my aspheric-lens treatments when I use custom nylon spacers, and at the least, all of these holiday grabs will benefit in throw greatly from a tune-up if the reflector is even kept on. I’ve got stuff to do on Christmas break in the flashlight domain, that’s certain. I have messed with these XP-E2 Torches more since early on, and am a firm believer that they are a great throwing LED when de-domed, and used in the right host. Similar intensity can be reached with them vs a G2, and fully driven, they aren’t going to heat soak even the worst host designs that put all the needed cooling metal in a head that is attached by a friction fit via greased O-ring. You probably know what I’m getting at. This is why I love “zooming” or “focusing” lights, but hate them at the same time—90% of the time preferring to do a “fixed throw” arrangement. Low power LEDs are what is going to hold intensity longest and provide maximum usable intensity across a longer runtime simply because of churning less power in the process and of course, keeping a 1 cell arrangement at a higher forward voltage across that running time. My uses tend to be specific, though, so an E2 Torch is typically going to be spotting buoys on the river, or illuminating a target for night shooting. Where that coverage area is less important to me, but battery swaps are more important NOT doing, or more hassle during the use when concentrating on something else. This is why I really do like E2s for smaller lights and even some “medium” sized lights. They can excel at intensity with a recycling aperture that’s smaller, too. So…long live the E2!

So yeah, I did one of those “grab what you see and try not to look at the cart total”, shopping sprees.
-20 more Olight M3XS-UT Javelot as I can’t keep them on hand once modded -These are significant thrower deals for the anodizing/aluminum, weight-ergo, 2S 18500 or 2S 18650 operation. Once I tear them apart and replace parts, emitter, o-rings, MCPCB, etc., they rip. With a lens… Evil
-OLight M22 Warrior deal…swoosh. Gone! Don’t even know yet what to do with them, but they’re getting a hefty mod run, might even get the right aspheric in there. Big Smile
TR-S700 —3P 26650, yes please! I took them, sorry, please restock more! 0:) Not the aspheric potential of other big lights, but the cooling potential for some mad XHP50s is there with some bolt-on copper round sucking the heat up.

A single one, for myself, a Surefire Scout with Malkoff P60 head mod, it is definitely getting a 20mm lens and going on a new AR-15 build I’m completing (with Elftman bearing trigger, and a special, second registered upper, the CAN CANNON Evil .

I turned the Malkoff head bezel open, as for some reason they used about a 14mm hole for light exit, with 20mm of clear bezel space. :quest: No idea, but it’s fine now.

Lenses? Yes of course more came. I can live on lenses. :bigsmile:

20, 25, 30, 50, 50mm, all AR-coated.

Yes, I’m giddy. :santa: Party

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!!!

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

nofearek9
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nice aspherics.
yet any free shipping sources for it ?

MEM
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nofearek9 wrote:
nice aspherics. yet any free shipping sources for it ?

There’s an XP-E2 Torch going behind at least 2 of them.

What do you mean any free shipping sources for “it”? Usually shipping is something I expect to pay for when I purchase something of quality. Confused. ?

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

luminarium iaculator
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Maybe he thinks on China vendor.

They are really nice. I just wanna bite them (maybe I am crazy? Smile )

MEM
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luminarium iaculator wrote:

Gas is absolutely no. 1 method for me also.

At summer days dome fells of at approx 55 minutes, at cold days after 2 hours. So obviously temperature plays its role in how quick will dome fall off or how fast silicone will decompose.

My domes never float fully… I try with toothpick to see if it is ready for compressor air cleaning. After some practice you simply know when to take it out (like with cooking and everything else Smile )

No tint shift if done fast. Look at my tint with gas dedome with newest B158 50mm aspheric(340kcd):

Is the camera flaring the focus of that image? I mean, I’m giving benefit of doubt that it is because of the picture luminosity. What if you use a faster shutter/higher F#/lower ISO on the camera to capture it? Just curious if the “dots” on the phosphor become visible.

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

shrick
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shrick wrote:
Hi MEM… Excuse my late reply. Thanks for your informative feedback, lots appreciated. Ok, so you’ve convinced me to start experimenting with gas dedoming, thanks Smile As mentioned, the time it takes to chemically dedome is not an issue to me. I believe in patients. It normally pays off. It seems also in this case, but, the proof is in the pudding. I’m starting with some experiments soon. Will reply with my findings.

Just to confirm, do you experience a 100% success rate with gas dedoming, in terms of not loosing LEDs related to ANY defects?

And, regarding the MT-G2s. Is it a long procedure? If possible, can you comment on this?

Hi MEM / Tom / LI

Sorry for my late reply too :).

Just some feedback on my experience with gas dedoming.

My first issue: The dedomes are not as clean as yours.

Your dedomes seem to not leave any sort of silicone residue on the base. Its as if my first dedomes were ‘cleaner’ than the ones that followed over time. I’ve used the same gas over a period of 3-4 weeks. After removal from the gas I soak the led for 10-15 seconds in surgical alcohol (to get rid of the gas smell ASAP) after which I immediately start to remove the remaining residue with fine tweezers. Can the efficiency of the gas to dedome degrade over this period of 3-4 weeks? I have not gotten to the point of replacing the gas to verify this.

My second issue: I’m experiencing smoke being generated from the LEDs after dedome and initial testing. This does not happen every time. 1 out of 2-3 LEDs does this. At first I was not aware of the issue, thus having the smoke being generated in assembled lights, which is really not nice. I then started to run the LEDs after dedome for longer until the smoking stopped.

Some further comments…

  • I use 95 octane unleaded fuel (South Africa).
  • Regarding the claims around more greens in the tint. I have not experienced this, the tint was consistent and predictable. I’ve dedomed XM-L, XP-L & XP-G – never left if longer than 2-4 hours in the gas.
  • I’ve found some white residue on the solder used to reflow the LEDs. Not a big issue.

At the moment my preferred method of dedome is still with heat & removal by scalpel. Its a 50/50 in terms of how clean the dedome is. I have a fetish for clean dedomes which I’ve not mastered yet! I’m still looking for that spot on method to get constant clean dedomes.

Smile
luminarium iaculator
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MEM wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:

Gas is absolutely no. 1 method for me also.

At summer days dome fells of at approx 55 minutes, at cold days after 2 hours. So obviously temperature plays its role in how quick will dome fall off or how fast silicone will decompose.

My domes never float fully... I try with toothpick to see if it is ready for compressor air cleaning. After some practice you simply know when to take it out (like with cooking and everything else Smile )

No tint shift if done fast. Look at my tint with gas dedome with newest B158 50mm aspheric(340kcd):

Is the camera flaring the focus of that image? I mean, I'm giving benefit of doubt that it is because of the picture luminosity. What if you use a faster shutter/higher F#/lower ISO on the camera to capture it? Just curious if the "dots" on the phosphor become visible.

I have some old olympus 14mpx camera. Auto settings and point and click.

And yes small dots on emitter surface are almost not  visible at 3m distance from wall (that wall on my pic is blueish)

If I compare it to 1503 lenses(another 50 mm aspheric) 1503 has larger main beam, and emitter dots are more visible than on B158 lenses. But it seems this is not crucial when it comes to throw Smile . So B158 lenses has smaller main beam and better flood mode while 1503 has larger main beam projection when in fully focus.

1503(left), 280 kcd and B158(right) 340 kcd... Djozz made that pics. Plastic(acrylic) lenses wins over glass one.

 

Look at this thread post 45.

Edit: B158 lenses are really special... 340kcd results (we all got similar results when modded, which means they are consistent in performance, while uniquefire 1503 is best pick...) is something I was getting with 1504(67mm aspheric) year ago Smile .

So yes it is probably possible to get high quality acrylic lenses from China vendors.

nofearek9
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MEM wrote:
nofearek9 wrote:
nice aspherics. yet any free shipping sources for it ?

There’s an XP-E2 Torch going behind at least 2 of them.

What do you mean any free shipping sources for “it”? Usually shipping is something I expect to pay for when I purchase something of quality. Confused. ?


places i can buy it with free shipping or cheap shipping. (dont want to pay 5x the price of the led for the shipping)
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nofearek9 wrote:
MEM wrote:
nofearek9 wrote:
nice aspherics. yet any free shipping sources for it ?
There's an XP-E2 Torch going behind at least 2 of them. What do you mean any free shipping sources for "it"? Usually shipping is something I expect to pay for when I purchase something of quality. Confused. ?
places i can buy it with free shipping or cheap shipping. (dont want to pay 5x the price of the led for the shipping)

The only place I know is Mouser. Since I have lost my remaining Torch leds and am also interested in a few more, perhaps I could do a little group buy on them, if I buy 50 of them, it is free shipping. The costs would be $1.62/led plus shipping to get them to people interested (~$1.50 per letter, no tracking/insurance). 

Anyone interested?

MEM
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nofearek9 wrote:
MEM wrote:
nofearek9 wrote:
nice aspherics. yet any free shipping sources for it ?

There’s an XP-E2 Torch going behind at least 2 of them.

What do you mean any free shipping sources for “it”? Usually shipping is something I expect to pay for when I purchase something of quality. Confused. ?


places i can buy it with free shipping or cheap shipping. (dont want to pay 5x the price of the led for the shipping)

Yep, no troubles reported here in their shipping department!

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

djozz
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MEM wrote:
nofearek9 wrote:
MEM wrote:
nofearek9 wrote:
nice aspherics. yet any free shipping sources for it ?
There's an XP-E2 Torch going behind at least 2 of them. What do you mean any free shipping sources for "it"? Usually shipping is something I expect to pay for when I purchase something of quality. Confused. ?
places i can buy it with free shipping or cheap shipping. (dont want to pay 5x the price of the led for the shipping)
Yep, no troubles reported here in their shipping department!

Mouser shipping fees for overseas is 25 dollars, however small the order, and we are budget light forum, you see Wink

Jack Kellar
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I’d heard of this model in a few Fenix ads for their new torches, but I didn’t know of its die size being the same as the XP-G2. And considering the XP-G2 is easily my favorite emitter considering throw and efficiency, this is a major win for the E2!

Can anyone please point me out to the posts where they compare to other emitters? I’d like to see how this fares vs. the XP-G2 and the XP-L HD.

luminarium iaculator
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XP-E2 is a lot smaller than XP-G2... At least my R5 XP-E2 collection. Or I missed something??

Jack Kellar
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luminarium iaculator wrote:

XP-E2 is a lot smaller than XP-G2… At least my R5 XP-E2 collection. Or I missed something??


It’s listed as 3,45mmx3,45mm on CREE’s website. That’s the exact same measure as the XP-G2.

luminarium iaculator
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Jack Kellar wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:

XP-E2 is a lot smaller than XP-G2... At least my R5 XP-E2 collection. Or I missed something??

It's listed as 3,45mmx3,45mm on CREE's website. That's the exact same measure as the XP-G2.

MEM and DJOZZ??? Is that true?

Mine are small. I would not want them in 50 mm aspherics even with precollimator lens I use (almost 100%bigger die projection). They are excellent in smaller aspherics of course.

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