Disappointed with new Convoy S3

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keltex78
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Disappointed with new Convoy S3

Well, apparently I missed the memo:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34487

When looking for a new host for a triple build, I purchased a Convoy S3 from FastTech, based on the images on the site showing a removable brass pill. With the brass pill, I could install my spacer, then solder it in place for optimum heat transfer. What I received was the new style with the aluminum shelf integrated into the head of the light. That greatly limits the suitability of this light for a triple-type host. I guess it would work well for a single-emitter light in stock configuration, but as-is, this is a big disappointment.

|( Tired


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

Chicken Drumstick
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Hang on, lets be fair here. The disappointment is not in the S3 nor with Convoy. It’s the fact FastTech delivered something different to what they advertised.

Your obvious choices are:

-accept it.

-speak to FastTech and see what they will do (this attempt should be made, but if they are unhelpful, move on to the next step and don’t waste your time).

-raise a PayPal dispute as the item delivered is not as described.

keltex78
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Yes, I understand that FastTech hasn't taken the time to update their listing yet, but still, it goes back to Convoy changing their design to one that is inferior to the previous iteration.


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

pilotdog68
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From what I understand, Simon changed it because many people on this forum want integrated shelves in everything. For what it’s worth, I personally almost always prefer a removable pill.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

GregY
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Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Hang on, lets be fair here. The disappointment is not in the S3 nor with Convoy. It’s the fact FastTech delivered something different to what they advertised.

Your obvious choices are:

-accept it.

-speak to FastTech and see what they will do (this attempt should be made, but if they are unhelpful, move on to the next step and don’t waste your time).

-raise a PayPal dispute as the item delivered is not as described.

He ordered a Convoy S3. He got a Convoy S3.

You shouldn’t count on receiving a particular revision of a product or part unless you can inspect it yourself, or you’re ordering from a vendor with exemplary service who will check it for you. And even then, you have to specify.

Antenne
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At least should the pictures on the product page match the item delivered. That’s a must for online shopping and so I say to every E-Bay seller with generic or outdated pictures (e.g. TP4056 boards). The buyer must be able to rely on the fact that he gets what he sees. If not, file a complaint and get a refund, at least a partial. Sending the item back is not an option most of the time due to high shipping costs. I would agree that the new shelf version is an improvement in some cases, but that’s not the point. Since I prefer the separate pills too, I ordered my S3 host from Banggood (a while ago) and got the right one (also the old Convoy M1 host as mentioned elsewhere at BLF). Banggod has listed both versions and I presume this means you should get the right one:
http://www.banggood.com/buy/Convoy-s3-host.html
(The “upgrade” version is the one with the shelf)

Mike C
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It’s still suitable for a triple, just not one with the stuff you have at hand. I built a triple with it: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/38573
Love the integrated shelf because it has so much space in it. I’m considering getting help from an experienced friend with his lathe to make custom copper spaces instead of those washers.

keltex78
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Mike C wrote:
It's still suitable for a triple, just not one with the stuff you have at hand.

Mine worked out with what I had; it's just that my preference is for the brass pill which allows me to solder the spacer directly to the pill for maximum heat transfer. Fitting the parts is the same, but not quite as efficient for heat transfer.


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

Mike C
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Ok, got it. I was under the impression that the integrated shelf would be more efficient in evenly heating up the host as opposed to a heated up pill, but I guess soldering to the pill is hard to beat.

Dimbo The Blinky
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GregY wrote:
He ordered a Convoy S3. He got a Convoy S3.
For the record, that’s not what happened at all.

He ordered a specific item, by SKU number, Make and Model; and received something fundamentally different, having a similar superficial aspect (shape, size, silk-screened markings on the outside) but without key features upon which he relied in making his choice. Whether the new one is “better” or not is irrelevant. It is NOT what he ordered.

Has this become an acceptable business practice these days? How, pray tell, is this helpful or even useful to the people who fund this game by buying (“with confidence”, one could only hope) these gadgets we like to invent???

It’s like me ordering a NANJG-105c only to discover the solder stars no longer select Mode groups and I have to live with an annoying blink every time I turn on Low mode. Not the same thing at all.

Why even bother giving them names or model numbers in the first place? “Hello, FT? I want to order 1 dingus, 3 doohickeys and a whatchamacallit.” “WTF??” “Oh, it doesn’t matter what you send me, just take my money and send me whatever you feel like! As long as it’s new, I’ll love it!”

WTF” indeed!

Just to continue beating this dead horse, a 1972 Chevrolet Corvette has the same engine, transmission, carburetor, wheels, exhaust, etc. as a 1972 Chevrolet C10 pickup truck. So if I put a Corvette badge on a C10 pickup, I can go racing?? I don’t think so!

There’s an old saying, relevant to the topic at hand, among us dumb old Southern hicks: “You can put a shoe in the oven, but that doesn’t make it a biscuit!” or: “You can stand in the garage and yell “VROOM VROOM” but that doesn’t make you a Cadillac.”

For the record, I would never advocate “Brand Loyalty”, but having distinct, unique names for distinct, unique items seems like “the Lowest Common Denominator” at a minimum. Especially in international trade, where Buyer and Seller have to extend a major amount of Trust to each other.

Needless to say, I’d treat it as a “Wrong Item Received” dispute and demand either a full refund or resupply of the correct Convoy S3 model. If we paying customers decline/refuse to push back on vendors when this happens, you can expect it to get much, much worse.

“You can’t blame a dog for being a dog.” Meaning it’s our fault (for not standing up for ourselves) if this gets as bad as I expect it will.

But I’m just old and…

Dim

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

pilotdog68
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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
GregY wrote:
He ordered a Convoy S3. He got a Convoy S3.
For the record, that’s not what happened at all.

He ordered a specific item, by SKU number, Make and Model; and received something fundamentally different, having a similar superficial aspect (shape, size, silk-screened markings on the outside) but without key features upon which he relied in making his choice. Whether the new one is “better” or not is irrelevant. It is NOT what he ordered.


He ordered a Convoy S3, he got a Convoy S3. I have no doubt he was sent the correct sku#, and obviously he got the correct make and model.
Nowhere in the description does it say there is a removeable pill. The manufacturer updated the model, and Fasttech didn’t update a single picture. They should have updated the picture, but this is not a case of fasttech shipping the wrong item. It is a case of them not updating a listing promptly. Either way Fasttech should make it right, but I think you are making it a bigger deal than it should be.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Gunga
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Yep, I’ve had that before with DX, etc. It’s a shame but a reality. Manufacturers make changes and unfortunately the dealers sometimes/often don’t update the description as they should. Fasttech likely doesn’t even stock the product, they just get some when they are ordered.

I’ve ordered parts before hoping to get what is NOT described because people have gotten the (preferable) option. It’s funny, I was actually disappointed to get what was advertised!

Smile

In any case, Fasttech should update their description and pictures. The OP got what he ordered, within reason. If he is not satisfied, it’s worth it to contact fasttech for a refund/exchange etc. It is a pain though.

Dimbo The Blinky
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pilotdog68 wrote:
obviously he got
Obviously you missed the part where the OP stated:
keltex78 wrote:
I purchased a Convoy S3 from FastTech, based on the images on the site showing a removable brass pill

Maybe all the good people who take the time to review these lights on BLF and elsewhere are just wasting their time?

You may not have noticed that Convoy has an “S2” as well as an “S2+” (not to mention all the other S# models), which indicates they understand that different construction warrants a different name…

I’m sorry, but I have a very hard time understanding your belief system; although I’m always happy to learn new ideas.

Dim
PS: Blaming FT for this is the “Shoot The Messenger” fallacy. Like most “Web Stores” they likely never get within 100miles of the products they sell us. But we have no other way to connect with (and correct the behavior of) the manufacturer, yet FT does; hence my recommendation.

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

pilotdog68
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I don’t really know what you’re arguing. Are you upset that Convoy chose to reuse the name ‘S3’ after it was revised?

Convoy changed the construction of the S3. The version that had a removeable pill is no longer produced. Instead, the same light (Convoy S3) now has a solid shelf built into the light. The OP recieved a genuine Convoy S3, just a different revision than one of the pictures showed. The description of the listing did not specify which version was being sold, and Fasttech failed to update one of the pictures when the product was revised. However, the OP received the make and model that he ordered.

Oddly, you seem more upset about this than the person who was actually affected.
If he is unhappy that the picture did not match the listing, he should contact Fasttech.

Edit: I never said it was ok, I said it wasn’t as big of a deal as Dim was making it out to be. Fasttech didn’t ship a completely different product, they failed to update a picture when a product revision was made.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

pilotdog68
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Apparently you aren’t bothering to read what I wrote, so I won’t bother to write another detailed response. Think what you want. I’m just giving my view on the matter.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Ronin42
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Quality is adherence to specfication

Photos of a product are accepted to be a valid part of specfications.

This is a revision change. FT shipped a revision other then was specfied.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

coolz
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Obviously this is a problem with Fasttech

B42
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pilotdog68 wrote:
I don’t really know what you’re arguing. Are you upset that Convoy chose to reuse the name ‘S3’ after it was revised?

Convoy changed the construction of the S3. The version that had a removeable pill is no longer produced. Instead, the same light (Convoy S3) now has a solid shelf built into the light. The OP recieved a genuine Convoy S3, just a different revision than one of the pictures showed. The description of the listing did not specify which version was being sold, and Fasttech failed to update one of the pictures when the product was revised. However, the OP received the make and model that he ordered.

Oddly, you seem more upset about this than the person who was actually affected.
If he is unhappy that the picture did not match the listing, he should contact Fasttech.

Edit: I never said it was ok, I said it wasn’t as big of a deal as Dim was making it out to be. Fasttech didn’t ship a completely different product, they failed to update a picture when a product revision was made.

Yeah, not being mean, but you should definitely refer to your sig here:) Especially if you advertise something online, if you post a pic of one thing for sale and send something else, especially especially in cases where there is some translation issue possibility, you are responsible for sending an item not as advertised. Period. Which is grounds for a claim. Its not a “big deal” to most people, but if you are ordering it for the feature of the item which is shown in the picture and that is not included, it does indeed become a big deal because the order would not have been made without it. In fact most would enjoy the integrated pill updated version better, but that doesnt change the fact he ordered it for the removable pill.

This is irrespective of the possibility of Convoy being inaccurate and maybe having several types of component collection matches put together to = S3 model. Yeah, its probably a mistake, yes probably they didn’t pay attention and are not sending the wrong light/sku out on purpose and may be confused by Convoy switching what is handed to them when they order a Convoy sku, but, they are still responsible for the end result. Maybe they will have to talk to Convoy about this. And maybe they will learn next time, or maybe not, either way, it is their responsibility.

pilotdog68
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So basically Fasttech shipped something that matched the description but not the picture and now they need to make it right?

Glad you agree with me.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

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Gee, glad I had already purchased a couple of the old design.
But then again I bought mine from intl-outdoor.com . They were not marked Convoy.
I wonder if that source has the new design now.

"In the land of the blond the one eyed man is king."

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B42
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pilotdog68 wrote:
So basically Fasttech shipped something that matched the description but not the picture and now they need to make it right?

Glad you agree with me.

I wasn’t getting “and now they need to make it right” from your posts, but if so then yeah I guess I do agree with you Smile

zoom zoom
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Drill it out with a .5" drill bit and shove a pill in there. You could wrap a piece of sandpaper around a drill bit (tape the first end to the bit) and wrap it counter clockwise to finish reaming out the hole big enough. It sucks to have to do anything like that but a little redneck ingenuity should get the results you desire. solder the pill or even the heats ink to the host by soldering a semi thick ring around the pill until it barely squeezes in then heat the external part of the host while dropping solder in between. It's not easy but if you get that cast aluminum hot enough the pores open up to a point the capillary action Will suck solder into the pores and when the aluminum cools it will pinch the solder so that it will be stuck well and actually end up with the best possible thermal path..... Sounds like something I'd do anyway. Sorry you got ripped on something you thought you were gonna get but that's life it sucks adapt and CONQUER. that beast get r dun!!!

 

 

i think you should contact them nicely and say you sold me something that was advertised completely wrong and you'll have to do major work to make it right so you deserve a discount.

Chicken Drumstick
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pilotdog68 wrote:
Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
GregY wrote:
He ordered a Convoy S3. He got a Convoy S3.
For the record, that’s not what happened at all.

He ordered a specific item, by SKU number, Make and Model; and received something fundamentally different, having a similar superficial aspect (shape, size, silk-screened markings on the outside) but without key features upon which he relied in making his choice. Whether the new one is “better” or not is irrelevant. It is NOT what he ordered.


He ordered a Convoy S3, he got a Convoy S3. I have no doubt he was sent the correct sku#, and obviously he got the correct make and model.
Nowhere in the description does it say there is a removeable pill. The manufacturer updated the model, and Fasttech didn’t update a single picture. They should have updated the picture, but this is not a case of fasttech shipping the wrong item. It is a case of them not updating a listing promptly. Either way Fasttech should make it right, but I think you are making it a bigger deal than it should be.

Sorry but I can’t agree with this. The pictures ARE part of the description, even more so when buying online and with generally poorly written descriptions.

The simple fact is, one thing was advertised and another delivered. Being the same name and make has little to do with it.

If the picture showed a green Convoy and you where sent a black one for instance…. how would that be right? It wouldn’t.

e.g.

If you bought one of these based on the picture “Chevrolet Corvette”:

And when it was delivered it was this:

Would you still be saying what you are?