New XP-L High Intensity Emitter

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vestureofblood
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Hi all,

Has anyone done the death current test with these yet? IE how hard can I drive it before it either dies or I stop getting an increase in output?

Thanks.

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RMM
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I have had quite a few die before 6A, as has Vinh. It seem like these are more fragile than the regular XP-L.

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djozz
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It was a one-led test but the XP-L Hi that I tested 4 months ago (a 5000K U6 bin from Mouser) died at a bit over 8A (apparently I tested a tough one, see RMM’s comment above). The maximum output I got at 7.5A. But mind that the heatsinking in a flashlight will never be as good as in my test set-up, so aim lower than that.

Dutcheee
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In my 168A-T6 flashlight the XPL-HI V2-3C led on noctigon with BLF A6 driver and 30Qbatt runs at 5.97A on tailcap. Measured with UT210E meter. No heating problems whatsoever. I really like the soft tint.
Unmodded (XML T6) it gave 26K lux on my luxmeter phone app. It now does 125K lux with AR glass and double spring mod. Best thrower I have by far!

robertkoa
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tjeret wrote:
Factory DOMELESS ==> Me Want Smile Hopefully they make a “domeless” XP-G2 too

What is the maximum Candela from a Dedomed XP-G2 versus this new emitter ?

MEM
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robertkoa wrote:
tjeret wrote:
Factory DOMELESS ==> Me Want Smile Hopefully they make a “domeless” XP-G2 too

What is the maximum Candela from a Dedomed XP-G2 versus this new emitter ?

In common use and simply put, there would be much more intensity from a G2. (The maximum candela achieved will be a result of collimation, post-optics.)

To know why…

Starting with surface area alone with disregard to bond wire joints, a G2 has ~2.2mm² surface area. An XML2/XPL die has 4mm² surface area. If one made a simple comparison assuming the two LEDs had equal output efficacy over area and the same forward voltage (which they don’t, but rather close enough for this), then the ratio of amperage to achieve similar surface intensity becomes clear as follows:

4mm²/2.2mm² = ~1.8

(Assuming a XPG2 driven at 5A next)

5A*1.8 = 9A

There you have 9 amps being the needed input to see alike intensity from an “L” series die. This would be in the case of dedomed LEDs being compared, where dies have true image sizes.

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robertkoa
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Thanks MEM.

What I am wondering is using the skilled Modders here-

Is it possible to overdrive a Dedomed XPG-2 or another small Die high Candela LED to get to 400k or 600k candela for a tight, superthrower ?
Achieveing throw approaching 1000 to 1500yards ?

djburkes
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I’ve built many lights with dedomed XP-G2 S4 2Bs using fets with 20awg wire and Springs bypassed at the driver and tail without issue. The high candela is more or less going to depend on the reflector or aspheric being used…not just amperage.

RMM
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robertkoa wrote:
Thanks MEM.

What I am wondering is using the skilled Modders here-

Is it possible to overdrive a Dedomed XPG-2 or another small Die high Candela LED to get to 400k or 600k candela for a tight, superthrower ?
Achieveing throw approaching 1000 to 1500yards ?

You can get 1,000,000+ out of a dedomed XP-G2, if done right. I haven’t seen it on a meter, but Vinh had a modified TM36 with a dedomed XP-G2 he custom built and we had a Deft-X there as well, and the TM36 had more throw. The Deft-X is supposed to be 1,000,000, so I imagine that this was that much or a bit more. It made confirmed 700,000+ throwers look like they were on a medium mode instead of high. Expensive light, but it shows what good optics and focus can do.

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MEM
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robertkoa wrote:
Thanks MEM.

What I am wondering is using the skilled Modders here-

Is it possible to overdrive a Dedomed XPG-2 or another small Die high Candela LED to get to 400k or 600k candela for a tight, superthrower ?
Achieveing throw approaching 1000 to 1500yards ?

This is some major sidetracking from an XP-L Hi Intensity LED, but sometimes this happens…

Big Smile Beer }:-)

OK. First, let me help clear some things up here. From reading how you have worded your questions so far, you seem to believe candela is a direct function of an LED. Now, I know myself—it’s not too far-fetched for people to think in “chunks of candela” when they picture a certain LED in a given light or behind a specific set of optics. That’s probably a common thought process for many. Beyond the definition of candela however, those seeking high candela often find it to be a product of the collimation ability obtained from an optical system at play. That is probably the most important variable or set of variables; the optics, before any LED is added into the system. I won’t pretend candela has nothing to do with the LED, it very much does, but the LED or LED’s power/current doesn’t directly mean one will get X amount of candela automatically. Candela is simply a measurement of light intensity within a beam angle, or the measured lux landing on a target at a given distance when the distance is known (so candela can then be calculated with that data). It doesn’t say how much total light there is around that measurement point, which would depict lumens, it’s only the measured intensity landing on that point. Whether it is measured at 1 meter, 10 meters, 25 meters, or 100 meters; the distance will turn the intensity number measured at that distance into a predicted candela number, one will take that candela number and go on to assume their light has the ability to then throw so many meters until only about ~1 lux is landing on the target. Your eyes may not see anything at that maximum distance which is predicted. When the distance becomes very far like 1500 meters, candela is often untrue. That’s because of the atmosphere the light must pass through. It may be measured at 10 meters, but after passing another 800 meters of humid air, the light may have dispersed significantly from the particulate in the air over that distance. A true candela reading would be more accurate at 500 meters than at 50 meters, in that case. But, we wouldn’t do that, because I’m sure many would not like to see the true candela of their light at 500 meters on a humid night. Innocent

With all of that mumbo jumbo aside, let’s get real about what you’re asking above. The answer: Of course! That’s the beauty of it all. It doesn’t mean an XP-G2 is needed. With a large enough optical element that is designed correctly, a fluorescent light bulb could potentially yield the candela to throw 1500 meters. But, that is not very practical to do. An XP-G2 is the most practical LED to make candela with at this time, to state the obvious. As a lens grows larger in diameter, the intensity of the LED die is displayed across what you might call a bigger screen size. The incoming LED image also grows smaller in proportion to that lens as the lens becomes larger (assuming the lenses compared have the same numerical aperture), and the light rays leaving the LED seem to appear from a point growing smaller, and smaller, as the lens grows in size. When the lens becomes huge, the LED is like a point rather than a square. The light rays leaving the lens will still draw an image of the square when in focus, but the difference from one side of the LED die to the other side of the die will grow smaller in angular distribution as the lens keeps growing in size. It is this phenomenon which starts causing the exit rays to grow closer and closer to parallel, to end up drawing the image of the LED die at distance. Think about a laser. The area the light comes from is like the end of a hair or smaller on some lasers. This allows even very small lenses used in lasers to “interpret” the incoming light rays as if they were originating from a 1-dimensional point, rather than an object that can be seen in the projection—which creates more or less a round dot.

That is my attempt to explain it into somewhat of a picture that can be imagined, whether I accomplished it, I do not know. You can probably get the general idea that a larger lens = more candela, in a perfect world. Big Smile

400-600,000 candela is not hard to achieve in most average sized light hosts with an XP-G2 if it is built right. It can be rather labor intensive to produce and align everything correctly so that maximum output is found, to build a good “superthrower” that is beyond run-of-the-mill stuff, at least.

You could always “cheat” and use a lens like this:

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cabfrank
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Excellent post, and very easy to understand.

bushcraft
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hi, in this moment what are the official next release of the xpl emitter, v6 for the xpl, and v3 for the xpl hi? the next is very problematic to find….

hamedshh
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you may use a converter application or a calculator with converter option to find out what a true mining of candela of lumen which by trying to test a lot of value and compare with real integer you may find the actual value and this is good method

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Tom E
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bushcraft wrote:
hi, in this moment what are the official next release of the xpl emitter, v6 for the xpl, and v3 for the xpl hi? the next is very problematic to find....
XPL HI V3's used to be available and dont' seem to be any longer., so highest output XPL HI available is V2. XPL V6's are still available.

Hank at http://intl-outdoor.com/led-c-107.html is a great dependable source. There are falsely advertised XPL HI V5's around, like on FastTech.

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I see most reputable vendors are sold out of the v3,anyone know anyplace that has them? Much appreciated to find a few for projects.

cabfrank
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Shouldn’t there be more being made, in even higher bins?

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cabfrank wrote:
Shouldn’t there be more being made, in even higher bins?

That’s what I thought too,Cree data sheets suggest it but we all know how that goes,may never see higher bins.
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Mmm, just a while ago I posted this:
Big (1-2S 26650s) zoomie emitter & lens questions

Would I get any noticeable benefit from a XP-L HI V2 5C against a XP-L V3 5D on my zoomie?

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You will lose some lumens in favor of throw – HI is better throw, higher bin is higher lumens. Hard to say if the lumens loss would be noticeable, probably not, while the throw difference probably will be noticeable. In your thread, you are linking to FastTech, so roll the dice – no guarantee the LED’s will be what they say they are. With Hank at intl-outdoor.com, at least you are guaranteed you will get what he claims.

cabfrank
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DARCANGEL wrote:
cabfrank wrote:
Shouldn’t there be more being made, in even higher bins?

That’s what I thought too,Cree data sheets suggest it but we all know how that goes,may never see higher bins.

Yeah, and it doesn’t make sense why. The binning should gravitate up, and if there is demand, there should be supply. I still hope it will happen, because I love the XPL-HI.
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We always have to remember though that Cree doesn’t make emitters for flashlights. Our market is a very very small percentage of what utilizes their product. Industry uses reels and reels of emitters in street lights, overhead lighting in store fronts, displays, 10’s of thousands of emitters, and more. While we use a tiny few. Same for Nichia. Reach out, try to get a supplier from Nichia for your 10 or 12 emitters. They have recently expanded in the US to a wholesaler that has a minimum order quantity of 5 reels, that’s 17,500 emitters! MINIMUM! Maybe that explains why we can’t get the tint and power bins we want for our flashlights.

cabfrank
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For sure true, and I’m guessing the HI emitters are less valuable in non-flashlight applications. I still thought supply and higher binning would trickle up a bit though. It seems to have with the domed emitters.

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