UF-1504, 1503, 1505 - multiple LED's tested for throw (just what you have been waiting for!!!)

198 posts / 0 new
Last post
luminarium iaculator
luminarium iaculator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 7 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2013 - 09:09
Posts: 2291
Location: X

Now I want your results even more... Maybe you could borrow light meter or go to some professional photographer that will take measurements for you?

n10sivern
n10sivern's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 4 days ago
Joined: 11/09/2014 - 21:37
Posts: 1550
Location: biloxi, ms

Cajampa, just get a HS1010 lux meter. They are like $12-13 at fasttech.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

luminarium iaculator wrote:

Maybe Djozz will crack something out with android lux meters. He told he will try them.

I started a thread about that. Figured some things out, did some initial tests. I would not bet my life on the accuracy, and you will have to calibrate them, but it looks like it is usable.

When there's time and motivation, I will continue testing on my smartphone luxmeter.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/39477

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden
n10sivern wrote:
Cajampa, just get a HS1010 lux meter. They are like $12-13 at fasttech.

I have been reading up on those today, it seems the general consensus is that they read a little low about 5-10% compared to better meters.

I found the HS1010 on ebay for $10.18

And what is according to the listing pictures at least is the HS1010A for $13.20
The listing description says HS1010, but they have sold 324 of it so far, so if the picture was wrong it should have been fixed by now on account of all the disputes.

What i wonder is if it is worth the added cost to get the reader on a wire instead of it being on the meter it self? Is it even possible to read the measurement while you are targeting it if it stays on the meter, it seems like it would wash out the display.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

cajampa wrote:
n10sivern wrote:
Cajampa, just get a HS1010 lux meter. They are like $12-13 at fasttech.
I have been reading up on those today, it seems the general consensus is that they read a little low about 5-10% compared to better meters. I found the "HS1010":http://www.ebay.com/itm/321234747257?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPage... on ebay for $10.18 And what is according to the listing pictures at least is the "HS1010A":http://www.ebay.com/itm/201135677970?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPage... for $13.20 The listing description says HS1010, but they have sold 324 of it so far, so if the picture was wrong it should have been fixed by now on account of all the disputes. What i wonder is if it is worth the added cost to get the reader on a wire instead of it being on the meter it self? Is it even possible to read the measurement while you are targeting it if it stays on the meter, it seems like it would wash out the display.

the wire is very useful. The problem with these meters is not only that the calibration is not correct (within one brand and type it can already vary), but the main fault is that the wavelength response is not correct. That said, if you stick to measuring neutral an cool white flashlights, that fault stays within a few percent.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Thanks Smile djozz

That is good to know, for throwers i aim at CW & NW anyway because of thinner phosphors, and the potential of collars, that i hope to play with soon.

Jubeldum
Jubeldum's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/02/2014 - 09:20
Posts: 2057
Location: Michigan
n10sivern wrote:
Henry, read my note. I had to use a different DMM because I didn’t have any more fuses. It read higher amps on everything

It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one here who blew a fuse on their DMM. Those 11 amp fuses aren’t cheap either.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

I wish i had a fuse in my DMM’s 10A measuring circuit, but no when it blew/shorted or whatever happened the shunt just burnt off Sad

WillyD
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 10/10/2012 - 15:55
Posts: 796
Location: Ohio

n10sivern,

Thank you for taking the time to do all this testing. I was sort of waiting to see everyone’s results before ordering any components. The numbers for the XM-L2 are impressive. Would you say it has a more usable beam than the XP-G2? I was originally going to go with the XP-G2, but 400 kcd on the XML is fine in my book.

n10sivern
n10sivern's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 4 days ago
Joined: 11/09/2014 - 21:37
Posts: 1550
Location: biloxi, ms

It’s bigger. I didn’t actually do any beam shots with these except for the lux meter.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

MEM
MEM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 months ago
Joined: 03/18/2015 - 00:51
Posts: 294
Location: Amongst Cornfields, Illinois, USA

I thought maybe I should point you guys to something that can explain goofy lux results. Color temperature alone can fool a meter one way or another. With those cheaper lux meters, you’re really only making a comparison well when you have two tints exactly the same. Even when you do, that’s not saying the result is nearly accurate to what a lux value is. LEDs are one of the most difficult sources of light to properly read and measure in lux. Because of LEDs varying spectral emissions, and the sensor having points where it cannot detect all wavelengths, when a 1-sensor meter is used be wary of results. If a 1-sensor meter is used, it needs to be calibrated using a filter that helps the meter achieve a reading within the photopic vision spectrum curve of humans. If it is just a cheap meter, it will look exactly the same, but it will not have the proper filters inside to read LED light well and emulate the photopic curve. As you may recall, photopic means vision during bright, or daylight conditions. The CIE 1931 standard is based on the photopic curve. Scotopic is the vision used at night. Mesopic vision is basically using both those visions combined, in dim situations.

That basically explains what type of curve lux meters should be sensitized for—something that’s not so simple to test with 1 sensor. What the meters are actually picking up and reading may somewhat shock you. Some say, to calibrate a meter with a 60W incandescent because the value is known. Unfortunately, I found out that it cannot be done like that. An incandescent light, using heat to release light via black body radiation, has an extremely broad and solid spectral curve spanning from blue and going well into the IR region. An LED has typically only 2 peaks in its spectral signature (1 near 450nm and one in the 540-580nm area). The two light sources are very far apart in color spectra.

This article I found explains a pretty good reason for large variance with the 3 types of lux meters (cheap single sensor/calibrated-filtered single sensor/multi-sensor): http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2009/12/07/measuring-illuminance-correctly

Now I just have to buy a multi-sensor unit. J)

Luminosity function from wiki, black is photopic (day) vision, green is scotopic (night):

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

I did some tests on luxmeters that I posted here on BLF last year. The tests were all within my limited hobby possibilities at home, but perhaps nice to read too? The conclusions were quite like the tests in your link.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/33929

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE
djozz wrote:

I did some tests on luxmeters that I posted here on BLF last year. The tests were all within my limited hobby possibilities at home, but perhaps nice to read too? The conclusions were quite like the tests in your link.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/33929

Your test is the reason I own the CT1330B.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE

n10sivern

So I put an S4 2B in a 1405 with a 5 amp driver, dedomed, with a collar and measured 470kcd. I’m confident now that the difference between our numbers is due to the meters. I’m willing to put together a light with a battery and charger and pass it along to a few select members so we can get some baseline numbers so we can compare our results accurately. I have a 1504 with an XP-G2 and no collar that would be a good candidate.

Each person would be responsible for shipping it on to the next.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

I have been thinking about this idea of yours KKW, and what if we would take it to the next level Wink

What if BLF had a light with a CW, NW & WW led in different pills for example a 1504, and we all sent it around to calibrate our lightmeters. Then we should be able to devise a BLF lux & basically be able to use very cheap meters but calibrated to the official BLF conversion factor, that is this light.
Someone could even sell “pre calibrated” already checked conversion factor lightmeters.

I am not sure how the maths would work, but i think it should be possible.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE

It’s been talked about before, I think the problem is usually too much interest. I like the idea of multiple pills.

I’d probably limit it to about 6 people with a goal of about a month. I hope n10sivern is interested, and I’d like djozz to be in on it, but shipping to Amsterdam might be cost and time prohibitive. I think anyone with multiple meters and a history of doing testing here would be my first choice for candidates beyond that.

I’ll start a new thread to organize this.

n10sivern
n10sivern's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 4 days ago
Joined: 11/09/2014 - 21:37
Posts: 1550
Location: biloxi, ms

I’m game. Just need time to build things and for some LED’s to arrive. I have 2 meters to test.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Interesting, i think the difference between photopic & scotopic is a big reason why, CW light looks more impressive than a NW or WW led, when dedomed & when playing with throwers outside in the dark.

On flooders & throwers i LIKE the look of a nice NW tint the most, BUT in throwers the more CW led i use the stronger it looks somehow even when it is a a similar amp, i had attributed this to thinner phosphors letting out a tiny bit of extra light, but it is most likely very much the difference between photopic & scotopic vision response & that’s why the colder light FEELS more intense.
And i can’t imagine wanting to build a triple or quad with CW leds, that wall of 3000-4500 lumens blue harsh light :Sp urgh……but a nice 3D NW in the same lumens range is just so nice Love

So i have noticed that i chose colder led’s more & more in my thrower build because they feels more (and because i hope to play with RA’s soon), even though i don’t really like CW tints because they are harsh.

But then when dedomed you lose the worst of the blueness of the CW tints, it is going to be interesting to see if i like the XP-L HI 1A already dedomed CW or if that is just to much of a good (intense) thing Wink

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

I have ordered stuff for a similar idea:  I will make 6 constant output flashlights (with 2x7135 drivers) that are small zoomies with about 25kcd throw. I will thoroughly measure output with my integrating sphere and throw with my top quality luxmeter, and then sell them for cost price to BLF members who do light measurements and are interested. The costs are 12 dollars for the light plus shipping (=a few dollars).

This way, even if my numbers are not trusted (my 'djozz-lumen' is probably close but still has no absolute calibration, my class A luxmeter is top quality but last officially calibrated in 2008), there are six lights around with the same calibration.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE
djozz wrote:

I have ordered stuff for a similar idea:  I will make 6 constant output flashlights (with 2×7135 drivers) that are small zoomies with about 25kcd throw. I will thoroughly measure output with my integrating sphere and throw with my top quality luxmeter, and then sell them for cost price to BLF members who do light measurements and are interested. The costs are 12 dollars for the light plus shipping (=a few dollars).

This way, even if my numbers are not trusted (my ‘djozz-lumen’ is probably close but still has no absolute calibration, my class A luxmeter is top quality but last officially calibrated in 2008), there are six lights around with the same calibration.

Do you have any idea if calibrating with a lower output light like that would be better, worse, or no different than calibrating with a higher output light? I’m not familiar enough with the specifics of how they measure to know if they’re going to be the same percentage off through their whole measurement range. I don’t measure many 25kcd lights, but I measure a lot at 100-500kcd.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

Sure it is not ideal, but in my limited experience with the luxmeters I own, lineairity was very good, also with cheap chinese ones, so I think that you get away fine with calibrating with a lower output light 

I make lower output reference lights because it is much easier to get the output very constant (less problems with heat sag and varying battery sag). It is way cheaper too, the host is cheaper and because of the small size I can send it as a 'letter box' package, which is 3 dollar worldwide instead of 12+.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE

Here’s a poor picture of the above mentioned 1405 hitting some low cloud cover. This thing is awesome. I’m going to try the lens I have with a shorter focal length and see if the throw changes at all, I’m hoping it doesn’t go down, I can’t remember what effect it had on the one it’s on now.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

Nice work.  There shouldn't be a significant vF difference between different XP-L bins, but there is a difference between production batches, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the vF go up and them become more fragile like the XM-L2s have.  

I always struggle with requests to publish throw and lumen numbers, because I know that my meters are not accurate.  They are a good comparison tool, but if someone "took me to court" to verify the accuracy of the numbers, there is no way they would hold up.  I use them far more to compare with my own stuff (e.g. before and after mod. measurements), but I don't trust them at all to compare against others results.  I know some guys  who have the same or similar built lights who measure significantly higher than I do and others that measure significantly lower.

Just my 2c, but I don't get too caught up in comparing with others because must of us have level measuring equipment and use inconsistent measuring methodologies.  It's fun to compare, but I don't get too wound up with the inconsistencies.  The only way to get comparable numbers would be to measure the lights back-to-back, same day, same place, same meter.  I'm not saying that the different data points from everyone aren't valuable--because they are, but don't get too hung up on expecting your measurements to be identical to others' measurements.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

Nice beamshot KKW Smile

I am surprised we haven’t seen more hotrodded 1405/1504 beamshots, they look great when maxed out, especially when there is lots of moisture in the air like all throwers Wink

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

cajampa wrote:
Nice beamshot KKW Smile I am surprised we haven't seen more hotrodded 1405/1504 beamshots, they look great when maxed out, especially when there is lots of moisture in the air like all throwers ;)

I'm out camping right now, but did not bring the 1405. I did bring the shortened 1406 and will do a beamshot tonight Smile 

cajampa
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 1963
Location: Sweden

How nice to be out camping Smile and i see you guys in Holland have gotten summer already, here in Sweden it is still ways off and it is almost June Sad

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

cajampa wrote:
How nice to be out camping Smile and i see you guys in Holland have gotten summer already, here in Sweden it is still ways off and it is almost June :(

19degC and sunny all day, group camping with a couple of families, drinking coffe and beer and bbq+camp fire at night :bigsmile:

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

djozz wrote:

cajampa wrote:
Nice beamshot KKW Smile I am surprised we haven't seen more hotrodded 1405/1504 beamshots, they look great when maxed out, especially when there is lots of moisture in the air like all throwers ;)

I'm out camping right now, but did not bring the 1405. I did bring the shortened 1406 and will do a beamshot tonight Smile 

A bit blurry but here's a bbq-beamshot with the 1406-shorty Smile  :

  https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5344/17866863200_55e2ba4015_b.jpg

(sorry, can't get the photo into the editor on my phone)

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6423
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA
djozz wrote:
A bit blurry but here’s a bbq-beamshot with the 1406-shorty Smile  :

  https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5344/17866863200_55e2ba4015_b.jpg

(sorry, can’t get the photo into the editor on my phone)

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18309
Location: Amsterdam

Thanks pd68, one more then, 230kcd in J.'s face (eyes closed btw Wink ) :

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8778/17870263910_35b5a52c27.jpg

I will fix the image tomorrow.

Pages