my thrower project- work in progress

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johny723
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my thrower project- work in progress

I want a budget thrower that has a stupid long throw. And it must be built or bought for some reasonable sum of money (the cheaper, the better). I am thinking about a Courui big head modded with a 86mm KD reflector like Linus and FmC did. I really like that mod.
What would be the best emitter? A dedomed xp-g2 driven at 5amps or a dedomed xm-l2 driven at 7 or so amps?
What would do the job better?
Or is there some other flashlight that should come into consideration? Some other 600+ kcd budget light, either reflector or aspheric based? Thanks for help!

pilotdog68
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you should also consider the uf-1504 or 1405. Maybe not quite 600kcd, but much cheaper. ~$40 vs ~$70 (because that KD reflector is almost $20 by itself)

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

johny723
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Thanks for a suggestion, but I want something “throwier” than a 1405. I dont care whether it costs 40$ or 70$. Or slightly more. If there is a considerably better thrower than a 1405 that does not cost me an arm and a leg, I want it. I would rather pay more for something more powerful than trying to save and end up with something mediocre. I want the best (within some budget :D), not just something fairly good. I can not say I have “ no expenses spared” attitude, but 600+ kcd is going to cost a bit, thats a plain fact.
I strongly prefer a LED flashlight. HID torches have more disadvantages than advantages for me.

So is there something more powerful than a Courui big head with a 86mm KD reflector at a good price? If not, my next question is, what is a better emitter choice- an overdriven xm-l2 or xp-g2?

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
A dedomed xp-g2 driven at 5amps or a dedomed xm-l2 driven at 7 or so amps?

Show us where the 7 amp XM-L2’s are hiding! Party

johny723
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Are there actually no xm-l2 leds running at 7 amps??? Then I am sorry, because I am just a noob, and I really thought there were xm-l2s driven at 7amps when I saw the graphs :_( It is all based on these images –

FmC
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Since those measurements were taken, there was some (undocumented?) changes to the manufacturing process, & the more recent XM-L2’s have a higher vF, & will burn out the bond wires prior to hitting 7 Amps.

johny723
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I thought that was a problem of the newest tints only, but it is apparently a far more complex issue. So what would be the best emitter-driver choice for my thrower project?

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
I thought that was a problem of the newest tints only, but it is apparently a far more complex issue. So what would be the best emitter-driver choice for my thrower project?

If you are set on the D01, you will have to convert the batteries to serial, & use a buck driver.

The new XP-G2 bins sound promising, but I don’t think anyone’s crash tested one yet.

I have some XM-L2 U4’s inbound, but by the sounds of it, they are not much different than the earlier bins.

johny723
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How about using a BLF DD driver? That should work even on 1s ( 3× 18650 wired in a parallel) as long as it is paired with 1 xp-g2 or xm-l2, am I right?

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
How about using a BLF DD driver? That should work even on 1s ( 3× 18650 wired in a parallel) as long as it is paired with 1 xp-g2 or xm-l2, am I right?

That’s what I am using now in my D01 (along with most of my other lights).

If you want to start pushing the higher amps, you’ll need a buck driver.

You could always run 6*18350 in the D01. I think Dale has done that, but he needed to make some extra room in the tail for the additional length.

FmC
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johny723
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OK, so a BLF DD driver can run one xm-l2 or xp-g2 on 1s voltage right? I will probably stick with this driver. It would be quite pointless to use a 7 or 8 amp driver, rewire cells into a series and then smoke all xm-l2s.
The next question is the emitter. What would be a better choice with this driver? I have red a few threads about wiring cells in a Corui in a series in, but it takes more time than I am willing to put into this light (I dont have much time…).

BTW, I have 3 xm-l2 U2 1A leds I bought last summer and never used, are they “old” enough to handle 7amps or not?

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
OK, so a BLF DD driver can run one xm-l2 or xp-g2 on 1s voltage right? I will probably stick with this driver. It would be quite pointless to use a 7 or 8 amp driver, rewire cells into a series and then smoke all xm-l2s.
The next question is the emitter. What would be a better choice with this driver? I have red a few threads about wiring cells in a Corui in a series in, but it takes more time than I am willing to put into this light (I dont have much time…).

BTW, I have 3 xm-l2 U2 1A leds I bought last summer and never used, are they “old” enough to handle 7amps or not?

You could always run 6*18350 – (2S3P) & buck driver. It’s not too much work to shim up the rear contact plate.

As for your U2 1A’s, there is only one way to find out; Set up a torture test bench & measure one Evil

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TN31 + dedomed XP-L + driver mod (+springs mod) for 5-6A
Crank it on and enjoy 8)

 

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Sirius9 wrote:
TN31 + dedomed XP-L + driver mod (+springs mod) for 5-6A Crank it on and enjoy 8)

I agree. If you are willing to spend a few more $$ go with this light and save the hassle of mucking around with the D01

FmC
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You guys are correct; By the time you have bought all of the ‘go fast’ parts for the D01, you are almost approaching the $$ for a high-end light.

But still, you will have to do some (relatively minor) mods, & you are still at least 100k short of the OP’s goal.

Picking up a 2nd hand K50 & putting in a de-domed XP-G2 would get him there.

If he’s light on time, it’s probably the way to go.

If he only want’s to spend ~$80, then he will have to make the time to get all the parts & mod the D01, or another light with a large reflector installed.

johny723
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Now I am really confused.
Lets say I have worked hard and now want to play hard and I have a certain amount of money I have no use for and I want a thrower. The goal is 600+ kcd. What should I do? The price difference is negligible. The budget is limited to 100$ or so. What will be the safest and the most throwing option? I really dont like tinkering and modding high end stuff, mistakes and errors can be pretty expensive.
Would a KD reflector with a dedomed overdriven xp-l or xm-l2 be the best choice? Or a KD reflector with a dedomed overdriven xp-g2? Or some stock light like tn31 or K40 with minor mods???

bibihang
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Buy a TK61, get someone from here help you to mod it to 600kcd.

Or a even easier route (but more expensive IMO), buy the TK61vn from Vinh.

OR, if you really have some serious cash, go with the DEFT-X to get 900kcd+, once and for all.

Mission accomplished. Wink

bibihang
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Other lights which have the potential to hit 600kcd:
Wolf-Eyes SEAL
EagTac M25C2 Turbo head (uses exactly the same 86mm KD reflector?)

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
Now I am really confused. Lets say I have worked hard and now want to play hard and I have a certain amount of money I have no use for and I want a thrower. The goal is 600+ kcd. What should I do? The price difference is negligible. The budget is limited to 100$ or so. What will be the safest and the most throwing option? I really dont like tinkering and modding high end stuff, mistakes and errors can be pretty expensive. Would a KD reflector with a dedomed overdriven xp-l or xm-l2 be the best choice? Or a KD reflector with a dedomed overdriven xp-g2? Or some stock light like tn31 or K40 with minor mods???

Forget the TN31/K40 if you are set on 600+ kcd. The reflector simply is not large enough, which is why I suggested the K50. Swap in a de-domed XP-G2 on copper, & that should be it.

There may be another large reflector candidate other than the K50 as well.

The D01 mod is a _lot_ of work. Plenty of stuff to go wrong if you mess up. If that doesn't sound like your cup of tea, then go with the easier option.

johny723
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I simply can not justify spending so much money on a flashlight. It would be great to have a deft-x or a TK61vn, but they are out of my league

bibihang
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bibihang wrote:
Other lights which have the potential to hit 600kcd:
Wolf-Eyes SEAL
EagTac M25C2 Turbo head (uses exactly the same 86mm KD reflector?)

Which is why I also suggested you the above two options. I am not sure about the EagTac M25C2, but the Wolf-Eyes SEAL runs with 7135 based driver, which you can easily bump up the current by adding more 7135 chips on it.

LED wise of course you should go with the ‘standard route’ – Dedomed XP-G2 S3, or S4, not sure what is the latest and brightest bin nowadays, I have lost track of flashlight stuffs recently lol.

Dedomed emitter on DTP MCPCB + high current + big a** lens/reflector, that is the recipe for 600kcd. The Wolf-Eyes SEAL is still considered expensive but maybe you can contact different vendors privately for potential discounts.

johny723
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Buying a flashlight that can do 600kcd is too expensive and too boring. I think I will try a homemade solution like you did.
Sorry for my obsession with xp-l emitters, but what would be the current to the xp-l led with a BLF DD driver in a Courui with stock parallel cell setup?

KawiBoy1428
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Take a look here at the big thrower’s that have been measured not many but few are in the 6’s, either way it will cost more than your budget, Sad take it from these guy’s above they no their stuff! JMpaul320 is also a BLF member…. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?387655-Jmpaul320-OTF-Lumen-Sphere-Readings-amp-throw-measurements! You can save money (not headaches) if you do it yourself, either way you will pay, J) oh yes you will PAY! Smile

KB1428 “Live Life WOT

johny723
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KawiBoy1428- your post is very informative, thanks!

FmC
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johny723 wrote:
Sorry for my obsession with xp-l emitters, but what would be the current to the xp-l led with a BLF DD driver in a Courui with stock parallel cell setup?

Check out this graph by Djozz;

Taking into account the voltage sag, you might be lucky to see 5 Amps briefly.....which is why you need the buck driver to get over that, & sustain it.

johny723
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Now I finally begin to understand it better. I thought ( because I am still a noob) those currents could be achieved with any driver that has a direct drive in the highest mode… Which turned out to be impossible.
On the other hand, I have not(not yet) found anyone who has a flashlight with a xp-l running at 7amps. Which makes me think that there must be a reason to that… It is not a problem at all to order a 7-8amp driver and rewire the cells into a series, but I am not sure it would be reliable. If there is anyone who has a light with a xp-l driven so hard it has the surface brightness ( or whatever it is called) the same as a xp-g2, I will consider using a xp-l emitter again, but until then I will stick with a xp-g2.
Thanks for patience with my inexperience!

KawiBoy1428
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Well what Host are you planning on using? I myself have several TK61’s and Couriu’s ,Maxtoch Sniper’s, Jax X6’s, Yezl Y3’s, and HD2010’s…..but I think I need a couple M25C2’s Host’s or better for my next Adventure!! What would be your first…….adventure… :bigsmile:

KB1428 “Live Life WOT

johny723
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I have no idea what host is suitable. The only host I know of is the Courui Big Head. If there is any other host where a large 86mm reflector can be mounted, let me know! I have not seen many builds with those reflectors. Maybe we should discuss this matter with other recognized modders, their insight and experience with dozens of other flashlights would come in really handy.

johny723
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maybe a little OT question, but is so much copper heatsinking as many people put in their lights really necessary? And if it is so necessary, why not to mount a small cooling fan right under the pill? The Courui has more than enough room for a fan. Active cooling instead of passive cooling. I mean a tiny 5V powered fan that has 20-35mm in diameter. And put it under the pill. The air circulation should be enough to cool the pill and to convey the excessive heat away from both the underside of the pill and from the driver. It woult turn the entire cavity under the pill into a heatsink. That should help or not?

itsonlyme
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The problem with the fan is that you are circulating hot air unless you drill air holes and you are taking power from the cell/emitter also so shorter runtimes.
The copper is used to keep the output higher for longer or in extreme cases, stops the solder melting.

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