Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

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ReManG
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I just tested this with a KeepPower 18350 in my S2+ with one of RMM’s triple 219C’s from the recent sale.

I used a clamp on ammeter and some 12ga stranded copper (5 inches long) from negative on battery to side of tube.

I got 11.2 A initially, from an 18350…

I held it for about 10 seconds until it got too hot, it was down to 10.7 A

Holy smokes these 219C’s are awesome for pulling amps… That is about 3.5A for each emitter and according to Djozz’s chart in the OP, about 3000 LED lumen.

As for the heat, ten seconds was all I could handle holding it in one hand. I will have to adjust the firmware. With the XP-G2 S4 2B triple prior, I had it start to step down at 15 seconds, taking about 35 more seconds to ramp down to 50%…. That will not do for these little heat generators.

The tint is outstanding….

Yngvi
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Hallo

I’m new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things.
The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

djozz
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Yngvi wrote:
Hallo I'm new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things. The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

Yes, it will never be a pocket-rocket but it is possible. You will have to remove some resitances in your flashlight, mainly bypassing the spring(s), then the 219C should run at up to 1.5A direct drive on a LiFePo. I like LiFePo's because the chemistry is relatively safe. Smile

dchomak
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I just put one in a cheap SK68 clone. The 219C on copper draws 3A DD from a protected 14500. Not much runtime, but it sure is nice.

Yngvi
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djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
Hallo I’m new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things. The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

Yes, it will never be a pocket-rocket but it is possible. You will have to remove some resitances in your flashlight, mainly bypassing the spring(s), then the 219C should run at up to 1.5A direct drive on a LiFePo. I like LiFePo’s because the chemistry is relatively safe. Smile

Yes the chemistry is nice.
1,5A only ??

djozz
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Yngvi wrote:
djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
Hallo I'm new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things. The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

Yes, it will never be a pocket-rocket but it is possible. You will have to remove some resitances in your flashlight, mainly bypassing the spring(s), then the 219C should run at up to 1.5A direct drive on a LiFePo. I like LiFePo's because the chemistry is relatively safe. Smile

Yes the chemistry is nice. 1,5A only ??

I looked at HKJ's test of a 14500 LiFePo cell and compared the currents/voltages with the 219C current/voltage and that comes down to a bit over 1.5A, ignoring any resistances in the system. A 18650 size LiFePo cell should do a bit better.

ReManG
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djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
Hallo I’m new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things. The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

Yes, it will never be a pocket-rocket but it is possible. You will have to remove some resitances in your flashlight, mainly bypassing the spring(s), then the 219C should run at up to 1.5A direct drive on a LiFePo. I like LiFePo’s because the chemistry is relatively safe. Smile

Yes the chemistry is nice. 1,5A only ??

I looked at HKJ’s test of a 14500 LiFePo cell and compared the currents/voltages with the 219C current/voltage and that comes down to a bit over 1.5A, ignoring any resistances in the system. A 18650 size LiFePo cell should do a bit better.

Well this is interesting, I had not considered that LiFePO4 cells would be good for DD until reading this. Would be interesting in the Noctigon Meteor M43 that Richard had with the 219C… Plenty of light, pretty cool for the amount of light being put out and safer chemistry…

Yngvi
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djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
djozz wrote:

Yngvi wrote:
Hallo I’m new on this Forum and i read a lot of interesting things. The new Nichia 291c with that low Vf maybe is good for LiFePo in Direct Drive ??

Yes, it will never be a pocket-rocket but it is possible. You will have to remove some resitances in your flashlight, mainly bypassing the spring(s), then the 219C should run at up to 1.5A direct drive on a LiFePo. I like LiFePo’s because the chemistry is relatively safe. Smile

Yes the chemistry is nice. 1,5A only ??

I looked at HKJ’s test of a 14500 LiFePo cell and compared the currents/voltages with the 219C current/voltage and that comes down to a bit over 1.5A, ignoring any resistances in the system. A 18650 size LiFePo cell should do a bit better.

Aahhhh…..ok, that for the 14500. I try to build a “High Beam” for the Bike so i can use bigger cells.

Thanks for information

Tom E
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An old Illumina Ti LED/MCPCB upgrade mod to a 219C 4000K (Cutter):

 

Stock light did 241 lumens @30secs, 219C/10mm SinkPAD does 296 @30 secs in a much better tint and better beam pattern as well. Both tests were done on a EFEST 10440.

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Nice upgrade, Tom!

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Tom, do you have any of the 10mm FET drivers? Those will get you up between 800 and 1000 lumens on an Efest IMR10440.

Nice job indeed, I didn’t realize those have a pill in em. Gave mine to my daughter, wonder if she’s lost it yet… 20 yrs old and 4 mos pregnant.

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Yea, was think'n bout replacing the driver for sure. Actually I got another one I want to mod as well - might do with the 5000K from Richard. Since it's a contact board/driver design, should be perfect for our 2 sided FET based 10mm driver... Hhhmmm... I know I got a couple.

Also need to do something better with that alignment piece, and the contact board is not sitting down flat, so it's a little more flaky switching modes that it used to be. I left the tiny stock LED wires - might be ok with the low Vf of the 219C, but definitely could get more power and heat for sure out of a FET with heavier wires. Didn't have much time of course.

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Nice mod Tom Smile

I am working on a Olight I3S & that Illumina Ti led holder & the pill looks identical, i wonder if Olight is the OEM for the Illumina Ti.
The biggest difference seem to be Olight used lots of threadlock + glued the driver well in place unfortunately, i have gotten the threadlock lose but haven’t attacked the glued in driver yet i want to test an XP-L on it before i have to probably destroy it to get it out Sad
Good point about contact board & the 2 sided 10mm fet driver, the pill is very deep for something so small, i will have to see if the I3S also has that setup also, the pill should be deep enough for it anyway.

If you are going to test an 10mm fet driver in the Ti wouldn’t the alu pill very quick get overheated due to the bad heatsinking of Ti?
I guess you could use an very short turbo timer to save it destroying it self though.

I hope you try it, it is always interesting to see more hotrodded 10440 lights pushed to the edge Smile

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Did test the 219c 5k. The tint isn't very nice (not if you are used to the A or B series) Too flat (dull) and has some greenish/blue hue (that is the reason why it slightly outperform the 219b in term of lumens... "less red" emitted) 

Let's see what they will provide for 219C 90+...

 

 

Suum cuique

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I’m not sure where to ask this.. Has anyone done testing on the 219B V1? The tint is very nice in my BLF-348, and I remember having a talk about it’s Vf being the same as as the 219c, but I’m wondering about lumens and how much current they can take..

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

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Finally got around to installing some 219Cs last night.

I installed two in small 1×14500 zoomies, and 3 more inside my Jetbeam TCR-01 triple. Previously all 3 lights had been running with Nichia 219B.

My impression: Not bad at all! All 3 lights are producing considerably more lumens than before. The new emitters aren’t high-CRI like the 219Bs I previously had installed, but they more than make up for it with the increased output. My TCR-01 triple with triple 219C and stock driver (not sure the about… my guess is maybe 2 amps), is producing a beam that is fairly close in brightness to a similar light with triple 219B and FET driver (both on IMR 18350).

I also like the low forward voltage on these emitters. Hopefully they will keep their max output in these lights longer than on the previous emitters or XPL HI. I’ve previously tried XPL HI in small 1×14500 zoomies at 3 amps. Output looks great initially, but they start to step down pretty fast as the battery depletes.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
I'm not sure where to ask this.. Has anyone done testing on the 219B V1? The tint is very nice in my BLF-348, and I remember having a talk about it's Vf being the same as as the 219c, but I'm wondering about lumens and how much current they can take..

No, there is no test, many still confuse them with 219B (discontinued) and they will forever I assume since Nichia's specifications are still vastly not comprehended by most people. Yes undoubtedly you can check the datasheets and see the Vf is the same, but you know they will come in different Vfs bins anyway (3 bins: L1 L2 M1 , lower to higher voltage), so far the 219C is not disclosed as to what Vf is, by none of the sellers, so I would like to see a L2 vs L2 comaparison not something like M1 vs L1. 

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Hikelite wrote:

pilotdog68 wrote:
I'm not sure where to ask this.. Has anyone done testing on the 219B V1? The tint is very nice in my BLF-348, and I remember having a talk about it's Vf being the same as as the 219c, but I'm wondering about lumens and how much current they can take..

No, there is no test, many still confuse them with 219B (discontinued) and they will forever I assume since Nichia's specifications are still vastly not comprehended by most people. Yes undoubtedly you can check the datasheets and see the Vf is the same, but you know they will come in different Vfs bins anyway (3 bins: L1 L2 M1 , lower to higher voltage), so far the 219C is not disclosed as to what Vf is, by none of the sellers, so I would like to see a L2 vs L2 comaparison not something like M1 vs L1. 

A few weeks ago I tried to order a few 4500K 90CRI V1's from illumination supply, asking them for cheaper shipping to Europe, but got no answer yet. If they ever make it to me I will do an output test. That only will give some information on one led, but it will give an rough indication of where the 219B V1 is situated between 219B and 219C.

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djozz wrote:

Hikelite wrote:

pilotdog68 wrote:
I'm not sure where to ask this.. Has anyone done testing on the 219B V1? The tint is very nice in my BLF-348, and I remember having a talk about it's Vf being the same as as the 219c, but I'm wondering about lumens and how much current they can take..

No, there is no test, many still confuse them with 219B (discontinued) and they will forever I assume since Nichia's specifications are still vastly not comprehended by most people. Yes undoubtedly you can check the datasheets and see the Vf is the same, but you know they will come in different Vfs bins anyway (3 bins: L1 L2 M1 , lower to higher voltage), so far the 219C is not disclosed as to what Vf is, by none of the sellers, so I would like to see a L2 vs L2 comaparison not something like M1 vs L1. 

A few weeks ago I tried to order a few 4500K 90CRI V1's from illumination supply, asking them for cheaper shipping to Europe, but got no answer yet. If they ever make it to me I will do an output test. That only will give some information on one led, but it will give an rough indication of where the 219B V1 is situated between 219B and 219C.

I assume you mean the 4000K at Ilumn, not 4500K. Well you can get the other 219B-V1 from IOS, a few weeks sounds like a lot of time.

But anyway, even if the Vfs of the 219C and 219B-V1 are the same, that is, the voltage bins are the same, the thermal resistance is not the same, 219C being rated for a lower thermal resistance.

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djozz wrote:
A few weeks ago I tried to order a few 4500K 90CRI V1’s from illumination supply, asking them for cheaper shipping to Europe, but got no answer yet. If they ever make it to me I will do an output test. That only will give some information on one led, but it will give an rough indication of where the 219B V1 is situated between 219B and 219C.

If you’d like I can order some from RMM for you and forward them like we did with the XP-L HI…?

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

djozz
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pilotdog68 wrote:
djozz wrote:
A few weeks ago I tried to order a few 4500K 90CRI V1's from illumination supply, asking them for cheaper shipping to Europe, but got no answer yet. If they ever make it to me I will do an output test. That only will give some information on one led, but it will give an rough indication of where the 219B V1 is situated between 219B and 219C.

 

If you'd like I can order some from RMM for you and forward them like we did with the XP-L HI...?

I hoped for illumn.com because I like 4000k leds way better than 5000k. (apart from doing output tests I like building flashlights Laughing)

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oops, I didn’t even notice his were 5000k. 4500k is my preference. I can order some from Illumn then? Shoot me a PM if you’re interested.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

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Hi djozz, regarding your 219B in the graph I see it hitting 600 lumens around 2.7A.
In your older test of the 219B here it is maxed out just under 600 lumens around 4A.
Is that because older graph shows lumen values with reflector losses and the graph on in this thread is lumen value without reflector?
Just to be clear these were the same binned HCRI 219B?
Thanks for your awesome work!

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THE_dAY wrote:
Hi djozz, regarding your 219B in the graph I see it hitting 600 lumens around 2.7A. In your older test of the 219B "here":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27652 it is maxed out just under 600 lumens around 4A. Is that because older graph shows lumen values with reflector losses and the graph on in this thread is lumen value without reflector? Just to be clear these were the same binned HCRI 219B? Thanks for your awesome work!

I'm not absolutely sure of the binning of the 219B from the graph of the OP actually, the numbers are from a test together with the new Oslon square, at a later date than my first 219B test. I think that the led came from the same batch that I used in the first 219B test, from Kaidomain so uncertain, but I ordered one or two from intl-outdoor as well later.

The method indeed changed since my first 219B test, that first test uses a ceiling bounce method that measures the output from a reflector placed over the led, which can lead to (up to 20%?) light loss, this is on top of calibration  inaccuracies that come with the ceiling bounce method (my calibration light -D40A- is much more throwy than the small OP-reflector that is used over the led that was being measured, and the ceiling bounce method is sensitive to source distance and incoming light angle, I expect the test-led to come out a bit too low compared to the calibration light). The later test that is used in the graph in the OP above (and all other tests since then) measures bare led lumens in an integrating sphere.

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Any idea if they are going to come out with 90 CRI 219C?

I’m really liking the current batch of 83 CRI 219C. I’ve installed 10 of them in various lights over the last few months. Beautiful tint. Nice beam pattern in zoomies. Low forward voltage makes for easy regulation especially in small 1×14500 EDC lights, etc.

Just last night I swapped the XPL HI emitters in one of my DQG Tiny III triples with 219C. Not bad. Though with a 3.8 amp 10×7135 driver at 100% power the triple 219C doesn’t throw as well as my other DQG equipped with triple XPL HI and a FET emitter…. running at 30% power.

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Any good sources for the 4000K version of this LED? I like the 5000K, but would like to see the other as well… I found the Osram SSL’s on Mouser in 4000K, but cannot seem to locate these anywhere in anything other than 5000K

THE_dAY
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I haven’t seen any 4000K 219C but there is 4000K 219B V1 HCRI at Illumn.com here
The beamshots I’ve seen of the HDS lights with these 4000K HCRI 219B look really good.

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Thanks for the great test, I need to get more familiar with Nichia emitters, and the graph made things much clearer.

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djozz wrote:
I’m not absolutely sure of the binning of the 219B from the graph of the OP actually, the numbers are from a test together with the new Oslon square, at a later date than my first 219B test. I think that the led came from the same batch that I used in the first 219B test, from Kaidomain so uncertain, but I ordered one or two from intl-outdoor as well later.

The method indeed changed since my first 219B test, that first test uses a ceiling bounce method that measures the output from a reflector placed over the led, which can lead to (up to 20%?) light loss, this is on top of calibration  inaccuracies that come with the ceiling bounce method (my calibration light D40A is much more throwy than the small OP-reflector that is used over the led that was being measured, and the ceiling bounce method is sensitive to source distance and incoming light angle, I expect the test-led to come out a bit too low compared to the calibration light). The later test that is used in the graph in the OP above (and all other tests since then) measures bare led lumens in an integrating sphere.


Thanks for the explanation. I’ll keep in mind that your current tests are bare LED lumens.

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