Title change by request: What's good about AFF links?

143 posts / 0 new
Last post
pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 5 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

I’m on the fence about the “battling”. If I saw a deal that looked good to me and someone said “hey, it’s actually cheaper over here.” then I would be thankful that I got the best deal, but at the same time it can be distruptive and feel heavy handed. I think we are thinking about the same user, and I know it can be a little interesting for him because he isn’t allowed to post prices for most of his deals. He might be better off to keep his “advertising” in his own thread, even if it means some people miss the best deals on things.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6774
Location: Holland

I personally like picture reviews... with affiliate links, a cup of cafe au lait, and a chocolate biscuit!

I also like the post with PM me, for best deals, cookies, motorcycles and flashlights...

when you do that, you got my attention Wink

edit: I didnt want to say motorcycles, as I am too darn afraid of them..

freeme
freeme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 22:00
Posts: 10625

A picture worths a thousand words. I prefer "picture" reviews, 70% pic/ 30% text. I do not use sugar-coated words to upsell any of my flashlights when I am reviewing, just facts that is reported by a average user (non-expert) perspective. Of course, I hope to improve as time goes.

ChibiM wrote:

I personally like picture reviews... with affiliate links, a cup of cafe au lait, and a chocolate biscuit!

I also like the post with PM me, for best deals, cookies, motorcycles and flashlights...

when you do that, you got my attention Wink

edit: I didnt want to say motorcycles, as I am too darn afraid of them..

1thedeals.comyoutubeAstroluxNealsgadgetsolight

MountainKing
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/01/2011 - 03:20
Posts: 2276
Location: Lost Islands ™

Honestly, if AFF links is getting me a deal, I’m all for it as a buyer. Else, I just skip over it.
I’ve been so jaded by aff links by so many members ( I honestly don’t even know who posts and who does not post then) that as soon as I see ‘aff’ link I avoid it in the first place as the ‘deal’ is not really a great deal for the most part.
You get better deals on GB (group buys) I feel.

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 5 days ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 8821
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

the point with “no aff links to products you don’t own“ is a problem (for me)

around 10 times a week I get a pm from a member asking me to negotiate with banggood (or hkequipment) about a code for a product he wants.
usually i can help and get a code.

i can’t have all of the things i am asked for – but the user should be allowed to tip me if he wants.

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

MountainKing
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/01/2011 - 03:20
Posts: 2276
Location: Lost Islands ™

M4D M4X wrote:
the point with “no aff links to products you don’t own“ is a problem (for me)

around 10 times a week I get a pm from a member asking me to negotiate with banggood (or hkequipment) about a code for a product he wants.
usually i can help and get a code.

i can’t have all of the things i am asked for – but the user should be allowed to tip me if he wants.

Again thanks for the awesome price on the Thrunite Smile I just could not commit myself to buy it and now I’m loaded with 18650 flashlights Big Smile

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

M4D M4X wrote:
the point with “no aff links to products you don’t own“ is a problem (for me)

around 10 times a week I get a pm from a member asking me to negotiate with banggood (or hkequipment) about a code for a product he wants.
usually i can help and get a code.

i can’t have all of the things i am asked for – but the user should be allowed to tip me if he wants.


I concur. AFF links don’t necessarily have to mean that you have purchased that exact item yourself. That would be unreasonable. The AFF link is not the same thing as a ‘positive’ review of a specific product. Some people seem to have those two things mixed up.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

n10sivern
n10sivern's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 21 hours ago
Joined: 11/09/2014 - 21:37
Posts: 1544
Location: biloxi, ms

No. I misspoke. I am ok with you having your own thread with your links. They should ONLY be in THAT THREAD unless you are giving an unbiased review. And there shouldn’t be 500 BG or GB affiliate threads but I don’t have a perfect way to regulate that without showing preferential treatment.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 5 days ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 8821
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

i see..

a suggestion:

  • only one deals thread per affiliate
  • always both type of links
  • no active contact – if one is interested he has to do the request…
  • if one abuses the trust of the community he will be reported
  • no advertising at all in the general topics (exept the OP – “i bought xxx from yyy“

i think that works for all …

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 2 hours ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 9599
Location: Berkeley, California
Quote:
asking me to negotiate with banggood (or hkequipment) about a code for a product he wants. usually i can help and get a code.

Isn’t this how all drop-shippers work?

They get a request, negotiate a price from a source, quote the price to the buyer.
The buyer pays through, the payment goes to the source, and the source rebates a percentage to the negotiator/dropshipper.

It’s a business model — obscure, variable prices, different prices for each transaction.

Do it at a big enough scale, and you can start hiring employees ….

devman
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/27/2011 - 06:24
Posts: 825
Location: Hong Kong / Vancouver, Canada

DavidEF: As to the question of why affiliate links are the tools of the devil himself (or however you want to phrase it)…

The general problem with affiliate links vs straight deal postings is that the members who are doing it aren’t necessarily doing it for the benefit of everyone else. As soon as they have skin in the game, the situation is changed and so is how people act/react to it. The tone of the place changes from friends and fellow hobbyists helping each other out to one where someone is trying to make a buck off you.

So no, it’s not that the majority of us are demonizing affiliate links, but that the odds are much higher that when you see an aff link, the person posting it (probably. no offense M4D M4X Silly ) has a motive other than trying to help out the other members. And that makes the place a little less friendly.

Personally, I don’t mind too much, but that’s just me. I can see where people can, and depending on their values, should feel strongly against aff links on principle.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 5 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

I would also point out that there is a big difference between giving codes/links in PM’s or to people that have specifically requested them versus posting affiliate links in every thread all over.

In one area it can be seen as deceptive, “trying to make a buck”; in a PM or a specific thread, you as the buyer are there specifically to get the deals they can provide.

You don’t despise a travel agent for getting a cut, they’ve built the relationship with the vendors and are doing you a service to get a good deal.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

rojos
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/18/2012 - 19:22
Posts: 996

M4D M4X wrote:
i see..

a suggestion:

  • only one deals thread per affiliate
  • always both type of links
  • no active contact – if one is interested he has to do the request…
  • if one abuses the trust of the community he will be reported
  • no advertising at all in the general topics (exept the OP – “i bought xxx from yyy“

i think that works for all …

We don’t need a separate set of rules for affiliate linkers. Affiliate linkers are commercial sellers by default. We already have an entire page of rules for commercial sellers. Rules for Commercial Sellers. Just stick to the existing rules and everything will be fine.

We have plenty of commercial sellers who follow the rules and post in the right places and contribute to non-commercial discussion when appropriate. They have been here for years and we like them, as long as they respect the rules.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 5 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

I don’t consider someone who uses affiliate links to be a commercial seller. But I think the commercial seller rules are appropriate anyways with one exception: if your write a honest review of a product you own, you can post an affiliate there too (clearly labelled)

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

rojos
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/18/2012 - 19:22
Posts: 996
pilotdog68 wrote:
I don’t consider someone who uses affiliate links to be a commercial seller.

Affiliate linkers promote the sale of certain goods and receive commissions on sales. That is the exact definition of a salesperson.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 5 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

I continued my post. I still consider “them” to be more of a buying agent and not a salesperson. They are not in the employ of the seller.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 2 hours ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 9599
Location: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Affiliate linkers promote the sale of certain goods and receive commissions on sales. That is the exact definition of a salesperson.

Yep. Particularly when they’re promoting things they don’t recommend, review, or own and use.

That’s the problem.

That’s why the businesses that have affiliate programs are so damned eager to get people to join them.
It’s cheap advertising, with no responsibility to stand by whatever claims are being made about the product — because oh no, they’re just affiliates, we aren’t responsible for the quality and neither are they.

Slippery slope, moral hazard.

This isn’t about YOU.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I still don't see the issue.  I try to click on the affiliate link (as opposed to the non-affiliate link) when a member posts a deal I'm interested in.  I figure if I pay the same price and its a good price for something I want, I want the member that took time to post the deal to get a little something for their trouble.  I really don't care what their motive is (e.g. make money, share a good deal, etc).

As far as the OP trying to be divisive.  I don't think so.  I, too, have wondered about what the OP is asking.  I have asked here and there, but haven't got an answer that makes sense yet.  Like the OP, I have no skin in the game.  As a general rule, however, I prefer as few rules as possible. Freedom and choice has costs.

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 2 hours ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 9599
Location: Berkeley, California

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/39822
is a thoughtful, thorough review
and way down below some of the pictures
there’s mention of one place to buy the light
and of a code at Max’s topic to get a better price.

Happy to go there and click that one.

This is how to do it in a way that really makes clear what the item is, inside and out.

Adoby
Adoby's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 02/13/2014 - 09:58
Posts: 383
Location: Northern Europe

 

The problem with aff is that the poster is paid by the store to help sell some items. The poster is by definition affiliated with the store. That is a problem when the same poster also is a normal member on the forum and participate in the general conversation and perhaps even build up a good reputation.

The poster sell/give away his/her good reputation to the store to help the store to sell stuff. Infiltrative marketing using the trust given by others. Nasty. And cheap and very efficient marketing for the store. But that is fine as long as the aff link is posted in the commercial seller parts of the forum, and banned everywhere else.

The aff link is by definition a part of how stores attempt to influence the market to increase their sales. Don't let that stuff mix with the normal non-commercial discussions about flashlights. Also reviews of stuff that has been given by a store or manufacturer should be strictly forbidden anywhere else but in the commercial/reseller/store parts of the forum. It is by definition commercial marketing.

Suggestion: Post commercial content only in the areas intended for that purpose. That includes affiliate links and reviews of gifted goods. No total ban. Just make sure ALL commercial marketing is in the right place on the forum.

 

This is essentially what Rojos also say just here above. See aff links as commercial marketing. And follow the existing rules for commercial posts.

 

We should perhaps start to help by flagging commercial posts with affiliate links in the wrong areas as spam? That is what it is, isn't it?

 

 

 

vēer
vēer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/07/2012 - 14:23
Posts: 2828
Location: N Europe

I dont have time to go throught all this thread but heres my take on it:

Aff links look like shilling to me, at least the way some of the most active aff spammers post them.

I mean, it looks like this: “I posted a link to deal, now I deserve monetary reward for doing so, bitchez!”

When I did few reviews(year or two ago) where I either posted aff links or had item in question sent to me by seller who didnt want me to disclose that it was free item sent for review I was never able to post those aff links or reviews without slight feeling of guilt for doing so, I mean, not everyone shares the same views and needs for a product as reviewer does.

My advice to aff-whores is simple – start your own deals pages and put them into your signatures, if people will like your pages, they will click YOUR aff links in YOUR web pages and not on PUBLIC page which is neither OWNED nor RAN by you.

I simply see it as cheap way of spamming, Im glad that I didnt go this route, who knows, perhaps if money flowed in I might have started spamming this place back then just as shamelessly as some of you do with your aff links :bigsmile: .

Im against aff links in any threads other but your own reviews.

rojos
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/18/2012 - 19:22
Posts: 996

I just noticed this exchange in an older thread:

freeme wrote:
12 Dec 14 – Nitecore T Series $6.99 @Banggood visit there light deals page (non-aff) to active the discount.
M4D M4X wrote:
@ “non aff link” is the banner ID 8431 in your link affiliated to you?

So it appears that the sniping between these two has been going on for a while now and that the kerfuffle that these two caused on the Budget Deals thread was just the latest episode.

While freeme and M4D M4X and other affiliates might not fit the traditional definition of commercial sellers, it appears that they have positioned themselves as professional middlemen and are engaged in a competition to see who can get more members to use their service. I think that makes them defacto commercial sellers. They may not be selling goods directly, but they are definitely selling a service.

It seems pretty obvious to me then that they should be asked to observe the forum rules that apply to commercial sellers. Honestly, just that simple move would solve all the problems associated with affiliates.

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 5 days ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 8821
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

as said before:
i try to play by the rules -and when i think others don’t i point that out.

i do not want to be banned as collateral damage because some others played foul.

I contacted sb why it happened that posts from freeme and rolz have been updated and bumped.
could be a error in the script or …
the answer is pending Wink

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

brad
brad's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 02:07
Posts: 2408
Location: USA

freeme flat out uses every post as an advertisement, and even worked it in as his “location”.

Affiliate link http://tide.com/en-us/shop

Not what we have but what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance.

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

brad wrote:
freeme flat out uses every post as an advertisement, and even worked it in as his “location”.

Affiliate link http://tide.com/en-us/shop


Well, I’ve never personally noted that about freeme. But, maybe that is part of the deal here. Maybe some of us are just more sensitive to certain types of advertisement than others are. I tend to ignore advertisements to the point that I can’t even see them sometimes. So, the only advertisements that really bother me are those that actively get between me and whatever it is that I’m trying to look at or do. Maybe that means I’m a bit insensitive to the situation.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

ChiggerPepi
ChiggerPepi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 08/20/2012 - 19:32
Posts: 628
Location: Big Island, Hawaii

When money becomes involved in which flashlight to recommend, I lose all faith in said recommendation.

Affiliate links are terrible. They are poisoning this forum. They should be banned.

freeme
freeme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 22:00
Posts: 10625

Ref Thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34811

My memory is not perfect but I remembered posting the 4 international links first as they provide introductory offer at 50%. There were a lot of interest and bought that particular key-chain light. Offer soon expired after less than 2 weeks and not many people were able the discount. BG was one of the first to list them in their store and got them in one of their sale campaign. That was why BG link was shared on 12/12/2014. Why only BG store link? They are the "least" unlike store to date and price is lowest at that point of time. 

Obviously you have not read my reply.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/40315?page=1#comment-779077

rojos wrote:
I just noticed this exchange in "an older thread":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34811:
freeme wrote:
12 Dec 14 - Nitecore T Series $6.99 @Banggood visit there light deals page (non-aff) to active the discount.
So it appears that the sniping between these two has been going on for a while now and that the kerfuffle that these two caused on the Budget Deals thread was just the latest episode. While freeme and M4D M4X and other affiliates might not fit the traditional definition of commercial sellers, it appears that they have positioned themselves as professional middlemen and are engaged in a competition to see who can get more members to use their service. I think that makes them defacto commercial sellers. They may not be selling goods directly, but they are definitely selling a service. It seems pretty obvious to me then that they should be asked to observe the forum rules that apply to commercial sellers. Honestly, just that simple move would solve all the problems associated with affiliates.

Your new Tide sig is technically an advertisement in your post too. Should we regard you as a commercial seller now?

brad wrote:
... uses every post as an advertisement... Affiliate link http://tide.com/en-us/shop[/quote]

1thedeals.comyoutubeAstroluxNealsgadgetsolight

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 2 hours ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 9599
Location: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Your new Tide sig is technically an advertisement….,

Oh, please. Muddying the difference between fair use of an icon, versus paid advertising by displaying an icon, versus a paid affiliate link?
Not helpful.

Right-click on the link he posted to Tide; copy the string behind the text, paste it into a text editor — and lo, it’s exactly the same words that you can read.
There’s no hidden code behind the text.
That’s fair use of a commercial icon as an illustration of how annoying it is to see graphics stuffed into everything advertising anything.

Of course there’s an easy answer — right-click on the annoying picture, and use Adblock.

Never see it again. Like I just did for your sig ad, for myself.

If I could do that with affiliate links — killfile them — I could solve this problem permanently all by myself, for myself — by choosing whose postings I am willing (sometimes eager) to see.
A few people do it right, with a single topic or their own website — I’d still rather see organized group buys, but hey, I can’t fix everything.

brad
brad's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 02:07
Posts: 2408
Location: USA
freeme wrote:

Your new Tide sig is technically an advertisement in your post too. Should we regard you as a commercial seller now?

brad wrote:
… uses every post as an advertisement… Affiliate link http://tide.com/en-us/shop

So you noticed, my Tide photo is just a joke for this thread only, from a Walmart page I think, and the link is just to some generic Tide page.

The point was to illustrate your advertising in every post that you make here, even capitalizing on your “location”.

Not what we have but what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance.

ReManG
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 04/25/2015 - 22:52
Posts: 2668
Location: Between the Mexico's

I changed my signature line due to this thread… I write M4D M4X if I am interested in something that BangGood has, but I like his style too… I like affiliated links that are marked and LET YOU KNOW they are such. I do not care for stuff like FreeMe does, but he does seem to contribute some to the conversation as well outside of the advertising.

Perhaps a 51% rule? 51% of your posts have to contribute to the forum other than advertising, or you are banned for spamming?

I do not know a definite answer to this issue, but I do know this is one of the best forums on the net, PERIOD. Lots of good stuff and generally respect is shown all around, by new and old here. I just do not want the whole “other flashlight thread” stuff going on here (written and unwritten rules, really? What is an unwritten rule? Rules by nature must be referenced easily and not be changed on a whim, or we are back in kindergarten on the playground) I enjoy my time surfing this site… The other one I tolerate to seek some knowledge, but my blood pressure suffers sometimes due to the junk they push over there, and the attitudes they sometimes write with. My two cents…

Pages

Topic locked