A charger/discharger that can discharge as low as 2.5V and charge up to 4.35V - do it exist?

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myhken
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A charger/discharger that can discharge as low as 2.5V and charge up to 4.35V - do it exist?

Have LiitoKala L500 chargers, and soon a new BT-C3100 v2.2. But I have discovered a issue when testing batteries.
The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V (same with my charge only Nitecore D4).
But it’s giving me wrong test results on different batteries.

I know the BT-C3100 can charge up to 4.35 (if you open it and switch the switch inside.
But who can discharge down to 2.5V?

I need testers that can take four batteries, and I need at least two.

Somebody that know what to buy?

Kenneth Myhre

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 What are you really needing to test ?i thought all your batteries were new unused  Oem and japanese or korean 

       καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

                            

       Dc-fix diffuser film  >…  http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42208

myhken
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But I want to be sure…

Kenneth Myhre

gadabout
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When you need this level of control, you are getting into the realms of a hobby charger.  

Plenty of threads discussing them here.  I am very happy with my iCharger 106B+.

I think you'd still be limited to one at a time for discharge testing though.

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After my disappointment with the C3100 v2.2 I decided to make a custom 1-6S battery tray to use with my Icharge 106B+… A hobby charger is really the best choice for your needs.

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myhken wrote:
The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V (same with my charge only Nitecore D4). But it's giving me wrong test results on different batteries.
Are you sure that Lii500 gives you wrong test results, please could you present some data or extensive table to detail the extent? HKJ has ordered the Lii500 too but his reviews of LCD chargers never detailed the accuracy of mAh readings.
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tempo wrote:

myhken wrote:
The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V (same with my charge only Nitecore D4). But it’s giving me wrong test results on different batteries.
Are you sure that Lii500 gives you wrong test results, please could you present some data or extensive table to detail the extent? HKJ has ordered the Lii500 too but his reviews never detail the accuracy of mAh readings.

Can’t be sure. But most of the battery types I test has the right actual mAh. But Samsung 32A, that can be charged up to 4.35 gave me a very low result, 2600-2800mAh max.

Yesterday I got a package with Sanyo NCR18650BF batteries, with 3400mAh rating, and I got 3186 – 3214 – 3300 – 3203 – 3229 – 3259 – 3319mah on the first 8 batteries, but their specs from the factory says that they have a cutoff power at 2.5V, and the Lii500, has a cutoff power at 3V. So with the extra 0.5V I’m sure I had seen 3400mAh on all batteries.

Kenneth Myhre

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myhken wrote:
NCR18650BF batteries, with 3400mAh rating, and I got 3186 - 3214 - 3300 - 3203 - 3229 - 3259 - 3319mah on the first 8 batteries

that's only 7 numbers, were's the eighth? the variation between the cells (3186 < 3319) is too high imho. we can't be sure why the 7 batteries have so different capacities. maybe fake Chinese.

Samsung pdf says Nominal Capacity 3200 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Minimum Capacity 3100 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Charging Voltage 4.35 ±0.03 V. 2600 < 2800 is about 400mAh short. i don't think that there is 400mAh between 3.0V and 2.75V.

maybe also fake Chinese.

 

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gadabout wrote:

When you need this level of control, you are getting into the realms of a hobby charger.  

Plenty of threads discussing them here.  I am very happy with my iCharger 106B+.

I think you’d still be limited to one at a time for discharge testing though.

While this remains true…I guess your 106B+ cannot go up to 4.35V but just 4.30V. Have you tried? Still, I think it could go down to 2.5V

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tempo wrote:

myhken wrote:
NCR18650BF batteries, with 3400mAh rating, and I got 3186 – 3214 – 3300 – 3203 – 3229 – 3259 – 3319mah on the first 8 batteries

that’s only 7 numbers, were’s the eighth? the variation between the cells (3186 < 3319) is too high imho. we can’t be sure why the 7 batteries have so different capacities. maybe fake Chinese.

Samsung pdf says Nominal Capacity 3200 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Minimum Capacity 3100 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Charging Voltage 4.35 ±0.03 V. 2600 < 2800 is about 400mAh short. i don’t think that there is 400mAh between 3.0V and 2.75V.

maybe also fake Chinese.

 

Sorry about only 7 not 8 batteries, had one other batteries on a 500mAh test that I did not want to cancel, so then it was room for only 7 batteries. If they are fake, I would be disappointed. I have used some money at this seller… but then he would not get any more business from me.

About Samsung, if they are fake, Gearbest.com sells fake China batteries with real brand names on it.

Got my new and real Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 today, will run the batteries one more time on that to see the results.

Kenneth Myhre

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myhken wrote:
Got my new and real Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 today, will run the batteries one more time on that to see the results.

Thanks for your tests! Please post the 8 results here Smile

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myhken wrote:
tempo wrote:

myhken wrote:
NCR18650BF batteries, with 3400mAh rating, and I got 3186 – 3214 – 3300 – 3203 – 3229 – 3259 – 3319mah on the first 8 batteries

that’s only 7 numbers, were’s the eighth? the variation between the cells (3186 < 3319) is too high imho. we can’t be sure why the 7 batteries have so different capacities. maybe fake Chinese.

Samsung pdf says Nominal Capacity 3200 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Minimum Capacity 3100 mAh (0.2 C, 2.75 V discharge) Charging Voltage 4.35 ±0.03 V. 2600 < 2800 is about 400mAh short. i don’t think that there is 400mAh between 3.0V and 2.75V.

maybe also fake Chinese.

 

Sorry about only 7 not 8 batteries, had one other batteries on a 500mAh test that I did not want to cancel, so then it was room for only 7 batteries. If they are fake, I would be disappointed. I have used some money at this seller… but then he would not get any more business from me.

About Samsung, if they are fake, Gearbest.com sells fake China batteries with real brand names on it.

Got my new and real Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 today, will run the batteries one more time on that to see the results.

errhm…. i don’t think they are fake… fake batteries won’t hit the 3Ah value, they would rarely hit the 1Ah value…so they are legit, the fluctuation could be caused by many things….none the less the electronics of charger …may I suggest that you test multiple times the same battery and see what’s the consistency of the results?

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tempo wrote:

myhken wrote:
Got my new and real Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 today, will run the batteries one more time on that to see the results.

Thanks for your tests! Please post the 8 results here Smile

Will take time, since it only take 4 batteries at the time. So maybe tomorrow it will be ready. If not the second BT-C3100 charger I order is in the postal office now, has three packages laying there, going to fetch them now soon.

Kenneth Myhre

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Don’t forget new cells may take a few charges to get up to full capacity.

Marc

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marcl wrote:
Don’t forget new cells may take a few charges to get up to full capacity.

Marc

That was new info for me (make sense since I know it so for phone batteries etc, and they also are Li-ion)

Kenneth Myhre

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TheBo wrote:
gadabout wrote:

When you need this level of control, you are getting into the realms of a hobby charger.  

Plenty of threads discussing them here.  I am very happy with my iCharger 106B+.

I think you'd still be limited to one at a time for discharge testing though.

While this remains true...I guess your 106B+ cannot go up to 4.35V but just 4.30V. Have you tried? Still, I think it could go down to 2.5V

Cheers TheBo Surprised

Not owning any 4.35 cells I've never had a reason to check but you are right.  The manual says 4.30V.

Perhaps there are other hobby chargers that might though.

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[/quote]

Cheers TheBo Surprised

Not owning any 4.35 cells I've never had a reason to check but you are right.  The manual says 4.30V.

Perhaps there are other hobby chargers that might though.

[/quote]

I've an Accucel 6 and it doesn't go past 4.20 volts charging, or below 3.0 volts discharging.

An SP1 does fine for my laptop pulls that require 4.30 volts or 4.35 volts as it goes to 4.31 on the 4.35 setting.

I'd say the OP is expecting too much precision from batteries as they all vary from their specs, and all the capacities he quotes look good to me.

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myhken wrote:
Have LiitoKala L500 chargers, and soon a new BT-C3100 v2.2. But I have discovered a issue when testing batteries. The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V (same with my charge only Nitecore D4). But it's giving me wrong test results on different batteries. I know the BT-C3100 can charge up to 4.35 (if you open it and switch the switch inside. But who can discharge down to 2.5V? I need testers that can take four batteries, and I need at least two. Somebody that know what to buy?

the devise shold be able to use these batteries to full capacvity. 

i too have opus and a lot of icr-30h batteries ..

looking for 4.3 v charger ... cutoff at 2.7 is good..

any mod to tp4056 board ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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xv-750 wrote:
I’ve an Accucel 6 and it doesn’t go past 4.20 volts charging, or below 3.0 volts discharging.an SP1 does fine for my laptop pulls that require 4.30 volts or 4.35 volts as it goes to 4.31 on the 4.35 setting.I’d say the OP is expecting too much precision from batteries as they all vary from their specs, and all the capacities he quotes look good to me.

They are clearly good, but little “sad” to not see the 3500 mark, or 3400 mark on batteries that have that rating. But thats life. I have paid $40 per charger/discharger so can’t expect the world. But if the result gets really low, there has to be something wrong with the batteries. (not in this case)

Kenneth Myhre

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Isn’t expecting the capacity of the battery from your own measurements to be the same as Sanyo, etc similar to expecting the mpg driving your car to be the same as the manufacturer’s stated mpg? Too many variable in your own measurements and how do you know how the battery companies are actually testing for capacity? (***fire batteries excluded since none of them are based on real testing).

I’m also guessing that Sanyo’s equipment is much more accurate than anything most of us have.

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myhken wrote:
tempo wrote:

myhken wrote:
The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V (same with my charge only Nitecore D4). But it’s giving me wrong test results on different batteries.
Are you sure that Lii500 gives you wrong test results, please could you present some data or extensive table to detail the extent? HKJ has ordered the Lii500 too but his reviews never detail the accuracy of mAh readings.

Can’t be sure. But most of the battery types I test has the right actual mAh. But Samsung 32A, that can be charged up to 4.35 gave me a very low result, 2600-2800mAh max.

Yesterday I got a package with Sanyo NCR18650BF batteries, with 3400mAh rating, and I got 3186 – 3214 – 3300 – 3203 – 3229 – 3259 – 3319mah on the first 8 batteries, but their specs from the factory says that they have a cutoff power at 2.5V, and the Lii500, has a cutoff power at 3V. So with the extra 0.5V I’m sure I had seen 3400mAh on all batteries.

So if the spec calls for 2.5V you are admitting that “So with the extra 0.5V I’m sure I had seen 3400mAh on all batteries.” if this is the case the tester worked just fine in verifying for your that the batteries are legit. So the remaing question is if the spec termination voltage is X are you also confident that the batteries are legit?

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
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Ronin42 wrote:

So if the spec calls for 2.5V you are admitting that “So with the extra 0.5V I’m sure I had seen 3400mAh on all batteries.” if this is the case the tester worked just fine in verifying for your that the batteries are legit. So the remaing question is if the spec termination voltage is X are you also confident that the batteries are legit?

Can I be sure of anything in this world? If not going into the factory, picking out my own batteries straight from the line.
How can you be sure anything you have of batteries, flashlights etc is legit?
Just because it has a high price don’t equal high quality and legit products, just maybe someone who makes LOTS of money selling fake stuff.

So what is your point if I may ask?

Kenneth Myhre

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I believe the point is that your readings are based on many factors, some of which you have little or no control over. So the readings by themselves don’t really tell you how accurate they are.

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SIGShooter wrote:
I believe the point is that your readings are based on many factors, some of which you have little or no control over. So the readings by themselves don’t really tell you how accurate they are.

Don’t expect 3400mAh on every 3400 rated battery, but I don’t expect 1800 on a 3400 battery either. So the readings should be around the ballpark of what the rating is, or not?

Kenneth Myhre

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myhken wrote:
SIGShooter wrote:
I believe the point is that your readings are based on many factors, some of which you have little or no control over. So the readings by themselves don’t really tell you how accurate they are.

Don’t expect 3400mAh on every 3400 rated battery, but I don’t expect 1800 on a 3400 battery either. So the readings should be around the ballpark of what the rating is, or not?


I don’t see anything in this thread about getting 1800mAh on a battery? Did I miss that or is it in another of your threads? And if the reading is on a xxxfire battery then nobody can be surprised at that.
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SIGShooter wrote:
myhken wrote:
SIGShooter wrote:
I believe the point is that your readings are based on many factors, some of which you have little or no control over. So the readings by themselves don’t really tell you how accurate they are.

Don’t expect 3400mAh on every 3400 rated battery, but I don’t expect 1800 on a 3400 battery either. So the readings should be around the ballpark of what the rating is, or not?


I don’t see anything in this thread about getting 1800mAh on a battery? Did I miss that or is it in another of your threads? And if the reading is on a xxxfire battery then nobody can be surprised at that.

It was an example…On a 3400 battery, I think 2700 is low. I think 3100-3400 is OK.

Kenneth Myhre

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Every manufacturers official battery specification sheet I've read lists two battery capacities - a nominal capacity and a minimum capacity.

The capacity quoted for sales is always the nominal capacity, not the minimum capacity.

They also list the discharge rate and cutoff voltage that is used to measure that capacity, the cutoff voltages I've seen vary from 2.5 volts to 3.0 volts.


Specifications

Lithium ion Sanyo NCR18650BF 3400mAh battery cell
 
Nominal Capacity 3400mAh (0.2C, 2.5V discharge)
Minimum Capacity 3250mAh ( 0.2C, 2.5V discharge)

Remember also that there isn't much point in a flashlight in worrying about any battery capacity below 3.0 volts as by that point most LEDs are dim, and if you look at HKJs battery graphs for 4.35 volt batteries there is very little capacity left below 3.3 volts on high for most single LED flashlights at 3 amps.

see: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php and select any 4.35 volt battery, then look at the 3 amp curve.

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myhken wrote:
Ronin42 wrote:

So if the spec calls for 2.5V you are admitting that “So with the extra 0.5V I’m sure I had seen 3400mAh on all batteries.” if this is the case the tester worked just fine in verifying for your that the batteries are legit. So the remaining question is if the spec termination voltage is X are you also confident that the batteries are legit?

Can I be sure of anything in this world? If not going into the factory, picking out my own batteries straight from the line.
How can you be sure anything you have of batteries, flashlights etc is legit?
Just because it has a high price don’t equal high quality and legit products, just maybe someone who makes LOTS of money selling fake stuff.

So what is your point if I may ask?

My point was/is that you use the charger to vet that you received the cells you purchased. As you have said (in essence) that you are convinced that the cells are 3400 cells, my point is the cells are what you thought you bought so your question is answered, so why the extra machinations?

You wanted to vet the cells, you vetted the cells, so what else do you need? Smile

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things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
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As an FYI my 500 charger draws down to 2.86v then will charge up to 4.22v

even though the same cell might look like more capacity on my 500 then yours that does not mean I would get better performance. as it is the “same” hypothetical cell we would get the exact same performance (provided the environment was identical).

What matters is what is the capacity in use?
And did we get the cell we expected?

When we answer the question “did we get the cell we ordered” then the capacity we get in actual use (what ever that number might be) is exactly that, no more and no less.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
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I would say that 2800 is too low for a 3400mah battery, but if you are questioning it’s authenticity, then it’s clearly not fake. The capacity is too good.

What I would do is test it twice more, all of the cells, and see how the results come out. If one cell is showing less then I would keep your eye on it, it might be faulty, not fake.

Marc

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myhken wrote:
The Lii500s cut the discharging at 3V, and it do not charge to more then 4.2V

i have found that both my Lii-500 discharge to 2.82v and then goes into charge mode (if you want to watch the paint dry do it while in 300mAh mode it will give you more time when in the higher / faster modes the numbers jump)

if you really want to take in down to 2.5v you would have to put then into a dumb flashlight and watch it like a hawk
BTW the NCR-BF or B or any non protected cell WILL NOT TURN OFF @ 2.5v its only the manufacturers recommendation if you wanted you can keep draining them down to 0 and kill then in short order
i do not think there is even 1 member here who would willingly take their cells down to 2.5v