All sold out: ReyLight Custom,Lumintop Tool AAA Copper. (Driver available)

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zipelgas
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Let the waiting begin Evil

Overkill is just about enough!

Gunga
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I think the spacing between moonlight and low would be better than how it is now. It reminds me of the thrunite type levels that annoy people a bit. That said, the L-M-H and nice low are appreciated!

ReyLight
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How about a poll?   

0.5-20-100%

0.5-3-20-100%

Edit: Poll thread here.

pollin
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I’m in.
It’s perfect for me as is!

djozz
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WWEFANS wrote:

Lumintop rep came to our office yesterday. Nichia 219BT-V1 is available from Hank,which will increase the cost of 1$. 26.88$-30.88$ @ 200pcs-500pcs. (BLF+CPF)

Modes should be: Moon-Low-High.  0.5%-20%-100%.   

These modes would be perfect for me Smile

Two concerns: 1) will the PWM frequency a bit higher than the stock Tool? 2) will a 0.5% PWM-generated mode be stable with this led? : I know that going lower than 2% has caused trouble before, but that was also PWM-frequency dependent if I remember well (I'm not an expert).

ReyLight
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I think Tool AAA uses a constant current driver?  not PWM controlled.

djozz
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WWEFANS wrote:

I think Tool AAA uses a constant current driver?  not PWM controlled.

The 2-mode Tool that Selfbuilt tested more than a year ago was current controlled, the newer model 3-mode Tool that I tested half a year ago was PWM controlled, with a fairly low frequency. So Lumintop changed that at some point.

It would be great of course if this copper GB Tool would use current control for the three modes, but I guess that would imply a new driver design by Lumintop.

(btw, if this gb works out with this 0.5%-20%-100% driver (PWM or current controlled), I would be interested in a couple of separate drivers for modding, if that could be arranged Smile )

ReyLight
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Thanks for the tips,  wasn't aware that there are 2 different ones. Will ask them to use CC instead of PWM.

Might ask them to make some spare drivers too.

jon_slider
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WWEFANS wrote:
Will ask them to use CC instead of PWM.

good, I hope it works
fwiw, the Copper Tool looks and acts just like a Maratac Rev3, which uses PWM and has a 40-1.5-132 lumen sequence with XP-G2. Even the pocket clip matches.

My bet is all the parts are already made, we wont have a choice of driver, it will be PWM M-L-H.. now prove me wrong please! Im impressed that the BLF Tool WILL have a Nichia.. I LIKE!

And, IF this copper tool gets a no PWM circuit and Nichia, Im guessing the next Maratac will offer those as well.

so, Kudos! for pushing Lumintop in a no PWM, yes High CRI direction..

Boro
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djozz wrote:

WWEFANS wrote:

I think Tool AAA uses a constant current driver?  not PWM controlled.

The 2-mode Tool that Selfbuilt tested more than a year ago was current controlled, the newer model 3-mode Tool that I tested half a year ago was PWM controlled, with a fairly low frequency. So Lumintop changed that at some point.

It would be great of course if this copper GB Tool would use current control for the three modes, but I guess that would imply a new driver design by Lumintop.

(btw, if this gb works out with this 0.5%-20%-100% driver (PWM or current controlled), I would be interested in a couple of separate drivers for modding, if that could be arranged Smile )

Didn’t the CC two mode tool only work with NiMH vs. PWM three mode tool for both Lithium and NiMH?

Two mode was very efficient but not as bright or adaptable at three mode.

slow2go
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I would like “ Two “ of these…

Thanks

ToyKeeper
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WWEFANS wrote:

How about a poll?   

0.5-20-100%

0.5-3-20-100%

Edit: Poll thread here.


Thanks for doing this. Smile

FWIW, my lumen calculator says that even mode spacing would be:

  • 0.5 lm – 20 lm – 100 lm
  • - or -
  • 0.5 lm – 9 lm – 38 lm – 100 lm

I prefer the 4-mode spacing, but it looks like the 3-mode version is leading the poll right now. In that case, there is perhaps no change needed.

Quality
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Its very difficult to please everybody, but .5 lumens is a setting that would be too low IMO.

Consider that the .5 lumen setting is not a usable amount of light for 99% of the time (perhaps even greater than that). The light will come on in a mode that is useless for 99% of the time? It just doesn’t make sense.

AAA lights are best with 3 or fewer modes, and I think that the poll proves most people agree with that. Again we all want what we feel is our own vision of the perfect light, but simpler is better IMO.

The original tool had a low of ~1.5lm and a high of ~70lm. If you could get the low to be anywhere above 1lm, the med to be somewhere around 18-25lm, and the high to be the highest lm you can get at least 1hr of regulated output with an Eneloop – That would be perfection.

You have chosen the best emitter, the best clicky AAA body, and what I believe is the best 3 mode circuit in all of AAA lights. I’m sure whatever you decide, the modes will get the same consideration.

ToyKeeper
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Quality wrote:
Its very difficult to please everybody, but .5 lumens is a setting that would be too low IMO.

You’re right, it’s hard to please everyone. I find 0.5 lm a bit on the bright side. ;P

But seriously, I’ve been trying to figure out what people can agree on and what they can’t, and I think moon is one of those things people will never agree on.

Henk4U2
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Quality wrote:
Its very difficult to please everybody.

When you switch one word in a statement, attributed to Abraham Lincoln, you get:
‘You can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.’

You are a flashaholic if you are forced to come out of the closet, to make room for more flashlights.

Woody
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Quality wrote:
Its very difficult to please everybody, but .5 lumens is a setting that would be too low IMO.

You’re right, it’s hard to please everyone. I find 0.5 lm a bit on the bright side. ;P

But seriously, I’ve been trying to figure out what people can agree on and what they can’t, and I think moon is one of those things people will never agree on.

+1. I love the Zebralight & Thrunite moonlight/firefly modes in the middle of the night, and 0.5l seems quite bright. No biggie though, horses for courses.

Boaz
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I like a 1 lumen low  like the xeno Es1 has ,it's bright enough to read by and yet when you turn the light on to go to the bathroom at night etc it doesn't hurt your eyes . My definition of a decent low low is one that actually works ..not one that impresses you about how low you "can go" .

 i have about 5 lights that have 1 lumen lows and although i've been a fan of the zebralight lows,  i think one lumen is a smarter choice  than the really low moons .

 some moon modes are just too low to serve any purpose unless you're trapped for 100 days in a cave . If thats the case  you deserve to die for bringing a AAA light. 

a half a lumen is a  nice moon mode imo 

       καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

                            

       Dc-fix diffuser film  >…  http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42208

jon_slider
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Boaz wrote:
a half a lumen is a  nice moon mode imo 

I agree. And it does not need to come first. The thrunite pattern, starting on .04 lum is silly to put first. It is the least likely brightness needed for most uses. I always have to skip past the thrunite moon first mode.

And the moon is waaay too dim for most uses.

I’ve come to prefer MLH. IMO 20-100-.5 would make most practical edc

Zeros
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jon_slider wrote:

And the moon is waaay too dim for most uses.

I’ve come to prefer MLH. IMO 20-100-.5 would make most practical edc

I completely agree. 20 100 .5 or 1 please.

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Not for me. L-m-h only. Prefer around 1 – 3 lumens if it’s only 3 modes

jon_slider
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Zeros wrote:
jon_slider wrote:

And the moon is waaay too dim for most uses.

I’ve come to prefer MLH. IMO 20-100-.5 would make most practical edc

I completely agree. 20 100 .5 or 1 please.

Gunga wrote:
Not for me. L-m-h only. Prefer around 1 – 3 lumens if it’s only 3 modes

Im flexible, L-M-H with 1-20-100, or .5-20-100 can work fine. Stoked about the N219, hoping the PWM can be avoided, but even that is not a deal breaker.

A copper Clickie Maratac lego sounds all good to me! Thanks to everyone that got it together.. Ill take one and try to stop turbo posting Smile

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The 3 modes won, even they are really close.    Many people could like it,some might live with it too,while some might give up. Thank you.

Let's go for it and end the endless discussion.  

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WWEFANS wrote:

The 3 modes won, even they are really close.    Many people could like it,some might live with it too,while some might give up. Thank you.

Let’s go for it and end the endless discussion.  

I second the motion.

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How about 1-20-100 for 3 mode? Start with 1-3 lumens? Can we all agree to that?

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We don't know yet whether .5% gives a low below 1lumens..

Maybe it's 1lumens, maybe more, maybe less.

It should first be checked/reviewed/measured, every new flashlight should be carefully checked before it goes into mass production. 

Quality
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ChibiM wrote:

We don’t know yet whether .5% gives a low below 1lumens..

Maybe it’s 1lumens, maybe more, maybe less.

It should first be checked/reviewed/measured, every new flashlight should be carefully checked before it goes into mass production. 

I absolutely couldn’t agree more with the last sentence of your post. That needs to happen, I would have asked myself but I figured it was probably too early to start asking for that.

Now as far as the .5% mode. First I want to say that even though I vastly prefer 2-3 lumen “low” modes, there is nothing that bothers me about having moonlight in theory. The problem comes from the fact that AAA lights are best with 3 or fewer modes and that is what this light will have.

Now if the first mode is moonlight, then you end up with a light that turns on in a mode that is useless 99% of the time. That is a problem. Furthermore, you now have no room for a useful, real “low” mode because there absolutely HAS to be a “medium” and a “high”.

Of course everyone is 100% entitled to their own opinion on this matter, but I believe for these reasons that this light should not have a moonlight mode.

Now you mentioned that we don’t know whether .5% produces below 1 lumen or not. This is true for many reasons and even the best manufacturers in the world have a large amount of deviation in their lowest modes. However, I think that because this is a AAA Nichia 219 light, we can make an educated guess that .5% will likely be below 1 lumen. Theoretically if the high mode was 100 lumens, which would be remarkably high if it was a regulated output on an eneloop for at least 1hr, the .5% would be .5 lumens. We can’t know for sure until we have more info.

Obviously this is just a guess but .5% could result in .5 lumens or lower and that would not be good for this light. We should all try to agree on a low mode that will make most of us happy.

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Quality wrote:
Now if the first mode is moonlight, then you end up with a light that turns on in a mode that is useless 99% of the time. That is a problem. Furthermore, you now have no room for a useful, real “low” mode because there absolutely HAS to be a “medium” and a “high”.

We should all try to agree on a low mode that will make most of us happy.

It’s something that people don’t agree on, though.

I could say that, if the first mode was high, you would end up with a light that turns on in a mode that is useless 99% of the time, and it would be a problem. I only ever use moon, low, and medium, and would rather not waste a “slot” on high. I’d rather it did 0.3 lumens, 5 lumens, and 30 lumens.

In any case, a poll was made to decide the issue and a conclusion was reached, so it’s a bit too late. The question now is… How many lights do you want?

Quality
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ToyKeeper wrote:
It’s something that people don’t agree on, though.

Yes its something that people don’t agree on, which is exactly why I proposed we figure out a way to agree. Easier said that done of course, but this is what we’re faced with. The last thing that we want is to have a low mode that satisfies neither of our preferences.

ToyKeeper wrote:
I could say that, if the first mode was high, you would end up with a light that turns on in a mode that is useless 99% of the time, and it would be a problem.

Except nobody ever proposed that the light should come on in high. That was never on the table, and it makes no sense to say that. Nobody wants that.

ToyKeeper wrote:
I only ever use moon, low, and medium, and would rather not waste a “slot” on high. I’d rather it did 0.3 lumens, 5 lumens, and 30 lumens.

Again this is not possible and was never on the table, though I actually agree with you that losing the high mode wouldn’t be that bad of an idea in theory. Personally I’d use medium and low the most on a light like this.

AFAIK nothing is set in stone and the only thing about the modes that we know is that there will be 3 of them (and they might be .5% – 20% – 100%), hence my previous post. We still don’t know what lumen amounts correspond to those percentages, and depending on what 100% is, .5% is likely too low for this 3 mode light – again, because there is a medium and a high and the light comes on in low.

The original Tool had a low of ~1.5lm which would be right in my preferred range of 1-3 lumens for a 3 mode AAA light.

The proposed mode order is L-M-H, presumably without mode memory or some sophisticated UI. Whatever you personally prefer, I think objectively it’s important for the light to come on in a mode that will be useful for greater than 1% of the time. For the majority of people moonlight isn’t that.

ToyKeeper
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Quality wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
It’s something that people don’t agree on, though.

Yes its something that people don’t agree on, which is exactly why I proposed we figure out a way to agree.

Hi, sorry, I think I may have rambled too much. Most of my previous post was an attempt to illustrate that one solution can’t satisfy everyone.

But the main point was this: A poll was taken, a decision was made, and it’s time to move on. I fully support the 3-mode .5/20/100 decision even though it’s not my first choice. I don’t want to complain just because I’d prefer some minor changes. Rey is getting us a premium item at a decent price.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
But the main point was this: A poll was taken, a decision was made, and it’s time to move on. I fully support the 3-mode .5/20/100 decision even though it’s not my first choice. I don’t want to complain just because I’d prefer some minor changes. Rey is getting us a premium item at a decent price.

+100!

let’s not make this harder than it needs to be guys. Personally I would like 4 modes but if the majority want three I’m absolutely fine with that. I would prefer to get the light under way then argue about whether it’s 0.5% or 1%…

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