The high amp problem sounds similar to the symptoms I’ve had on the Tiny85. Could be cap related, since I’ve been adding a cap (0.1 or 1.0 uF) close to the MCU Vcc input and it fixes the problems. Could be the 10 uF cap, as TK said – the X7R’s are more robust.
Dustin – how did you get 12.7A out of a triple? If it’s Nichia’s I can understand. I recently built up a 219C 18650 tube light with a FET+1 driver and ended up backing off on the amps by using a higher resistance battery (LG 4.35V rated cells worked out well – LGABD1 or ICR18650E1) – even 10A rated cells resulted in over 6A with 22 AWGLED wires. With a high amp cell, the light’s head would get quite hot within 5-10 secs.
I’m using a Samsung 30q and the new 219c triple from mtnelectronics. It is a cheap meter using my own 14 gauge leads. I guess i don’t really know how accurate that reading was. But prior to adding the triple it was at 4.7 amps with crappy leads. So the math kind of makes sense as we know the 30q is a 15a drain and triple the led’s in parallel. As sad as it is to say – it’s a little much and I may have to go the route you went with a lower amp battery only I don’t have a charger that will go over 4.2v.
For cells, you might want to try a 10A cell like the SANYO GA or Pana PD/PF, or even a classic Pana A or B. I'd check the draw though - maybe drawing near 10A on a 10A cell is bad for it??
You could do other things, like use smaller gauge LED wires and make them longer. Lots of guys use 18 AWG wires in triples - normally that's great, but for triple 219C's - watch out, probably better to use 22 AWG. To me it seems like 219C's get hotter than typical XM-L2's at the same amps, not sure if there's any evidence to that though...
Dunno if I'd fiddle with spring bypass's - good and bad: don't want to melt springs so the bypass's help with that, but doing the bypass allows higher amps draw from the cell... Maybe Dale or someone else has more experience with that. I always do spring bypass's on high amp mods - would not want to take the risk without doing it.
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
I have been using one of the Mtnelectronics FET +7135 drivers in a triple with no apparent issues. The only difference is that I am using an 18350 tube, so I only draw 9A or so max…. With the 219C it gets hot, but I do not seem to have the other timing related issues.
On the other hand, I also built a 18350 219C triple with a 3A Qlite, still a good amountof light, and nowhere near as much heat…
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
Perhaps a X6 with a copper heat sink? Or did you mean a tube light?
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
Now that I know what I know. I may go ahead and order the convoy s2 host that goes along with the spacer I already have. The spacer really seems an important factor. Chopping it to fit in the a6 seems like the wrong move. (But I may get impatient and try to finalize this thing. I want some beam shots!) RMM already builds an s3 tube triple so it must be working well for him.
And thanks for your help Tom E! The only thing I have any business doing is soldering – and even that has been a learning curve! I really didn’t do a lot of research before I started modding this light. I emailed RMM one time but really didn’t read many threads on triples before starting.
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
Now that I know what I know. I may go ahead and order the convoy s2 host that goes along with the spacer I already have. The spacer really seems an important factor. Chopping it to fit in the a6 seems like the wrong move. (But I may get impatient and try to finalize this thing. I want some beam shots!) RMM already builds an s3 tube triple so it must be working well for him.
EDIT:
Hi have the longer copper spacer (for the S2) and put it in a S8 (which used the same pill and reflector as the S2). It seems to handle the heat much better than the S2+ spacer I used for the BLF A6 triple I made…much better. The BLF A6 triple got hot much faster than the S8.
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
Now that I know what I know. I may go ahead and order the convoy s2 host that goes along with the spacer I already have. The spacer really seems an important factor. Chopping it to fit in the a6 seems like the wrong move. (But I may get impatient and try to finalize this thing. I want some beam shots!) RMM already builds an s3 tube triple so it must be working well for him.
Hi have the copper space in a S8 (similar to a S2). It seems to handle the heat much better than the S2+ spacer I used for the BLF A6 triple I made…much better. The BLF A6 triple got hot much faster than the S8.
Thanks! So you’re saying that you built an s8 triple or you used the spacer from one? I wonder what the difference is.
and a similar path — I’ve been wondering why the inside of the X6 head is so empty, for example.
Does the A6 with the S2 pill conduct heat out to the exterior as effectively? Need foil wrap added?
That’s the point. If you have two similar hosts(S2 & A6) both with similar copper spacers added running at similar currents the one that gets hot quicker has a better path. The heat is reaching the surface faster. To “handle” it better, ie have just as good a heat path yet stay cooler one would need to either have more mass, more surface area, or have a bigger mitt wrapped around it.
—
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
If a light gets hot faster at the same drive current as another with a similar mass pill it means it’s conducting heat better not worse.
I don’t think that’s the case here. My S8 was clearly able to maintain max output much longer than the A6. Also they are not very similar IMO. I didn’t weigh them, but the S8 host seems heavier than the A6. I think the size difference in the heatsink/spacer and perhaps the fins on the S8 might be the difference here.
Also I found the S2+ spacer was slightly too small for the shelf of the A6. It would have been more effective if it was a tighter fit.
Perhaps the fins on the S8 might be the difference here.
Or the surface treatment — emissivity is the measure of being able to get rid of heat by emitting infrared, and it can vary enormously even when the visible appearance to human eyes is the same.
Anyone tried doing infrared imaging of the lights, say, tailstanding over time?
It’d be interesting to know not only how fast the surfaces get hot, but how hot they can get and level off — without frying something.
Personally, I’m looking for the steampunk revolution to finally reach flashlight design — a little water jacket enclosure with a safety valve that pops and gives us a steam whistle as a heat warning.
Of course you’d have to be very careful not to have a boiler explosion on your hands. Superheated steam is terrifying.
Perhaps the fins on the S8 might be the difference here.
Or the surface treatment — emissivity is the measure of being able to get rid of heat by emitting infrared, and it can vary enormously even when the visible appearance to human eyes is the same.
Anyone tried doing infrared imaging of the lights, say, tailstanding over time?
It’d be interesting to know not only how fast the surfaces get hot, but how hot they can get and level off — without frying something.
Personally, I’m looking for the steampunk revolution to finally reach flashlight design — a little water jacket enclosure with a safety valve that pops and gives us a steam whistle as a heat warning.
Of course you’d have to be very careful not to have a boiler explosion on your hands. Superheated steam is terrifying.
Been there, done that.
—
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
Personally, I’m looking for the steampunk revolution to finally reach flashlight design — a little water jacket enclosure with a safety valve that pops and gives us a steam whistle as a heat warning.
Of course you’d have to be very careful not to have a boiler explosion on your hands. Superheated steam is terrifying.
Giggle You’re right. Steam is scary. But someone should totally build a water cooled light for the next build competition complete with a popoff valve!
Edit: Sorry. Way too easy to go astray at this place! Lol….
If a light gets hot faster at the same drive current as another with a similar mass pill it means it’s conducting heat better not worse.
That makes sense in the way of getting the heat out and into your hand but can someone explain the difference between metals conducting vs. shedding heat? I know that’s why the x6v2 was not left completely stainless.
I’m using a Samsung 30q and the new 219c triple from mtnelectronics. It is a cheap meter using my own 14 gauge leads. I guess i don’t really know how accurate that reading was. But prior to adding the triple it was at 4.7 amps with crappy leads. So the math kind of makes sense as we know the 30q is a 15a drain and triple the led’s in parallel. As sad as it is to say – it’s a little much and I may have to go the route you went with a lower amp battery only I don’t have a charger that will go over 4.2v.
Dustin
For cells, you might want to try a 10A cell like the SANYO GA or Pana PD/PF, or even a classic Pana A or B. I'd check the draw though - maybe drawing near 10A on a 10A cell is bad for it??
You could do other things, like use smaller gauge LED wires and make them longer. Lots of guys use 18 AWG wires in triples - normally that's great, but for triple 219C's - watch out, probably better to use 22 AWG. To me it seems like 219C's get hotter than typical XM-L2's at the same amps, not sure if there's any evidence to that though...
Dunno if I'd fiddle with spring bypass's - good and bad: don't want to melt springs so the bypass's help with that, but doing the bypass allows higher amps draw from the cell... Maybe Dale or someone else has more experience with that. I always do spring bypass's on high amp mods - would not want to take the risk without doing it.
So — it’s a tangent, but if anyone has suggestions about what would be a good host for a triple 219c — please start a thread about that.
Something with a whole lot of extra heat sinking, I guess?
I have been using one of the Mtnelectronics FET +7135 drivers in a triple with no apparent issues. The only difference is that I am using an 18350 tube, so I only draw 9A or so max…. With the 219C it gets hot, but I do not seem to have the other timing related issues.
On the other hand, I also built a 18350 219C triple with a 3A Qlite, still a good amountof light, and nowhere near as much heat…
Lithium Ion Battery Safety 101
Old Lumens Competition 2020 Modified Light Entry
Perhaps a X6 with a copper heat sink? Or did you mean a tube light?
just hoping someone will start a thread for it elsewhere, this one’s not the place to go off track
lol, then why not just start one silly.
Now that I know what I know. I may go ahead and order the convoy s2 host that goes along with the spacer I already have. The spacer really seems an important factor. Chopping it to fit in the a6 seems like the wrong move. (But I may get impatient and try to finalize this thing. I want some beam shots!)
RMM already builds an s3 tube triple so it must be working well for him.
Dustin
And thanks for your help Tom E! The only thing I have any business doing is soldering – and even that has been a learning curve! I really didn’t do a lot of research before I started modding this light. I emailed RMM one time but really didn’t read many threads on triples before starting.
Dustin
EDIT:
Hi have the longer copper spacer (for the S2) and put it in a S8 (which used the same pill and reflector as the S2). It seems to handle the heat much better than the S2+ spacer I used for the BLF A6 triple I made…much better. The BLF A6 triple got hot much faster than the S8.
QUESTION! Does the shorty tube fit a protected 18350 cell? http://www.banggood.com/KeepPower-18350-900mAh-Protected-Rechargeable-li...
Words can be broken,
so can bones.
Nope!
I have tested that particular cell and it is too long for the short tube.
“My collection”: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/700139#comment-700139
Are you able to recommend me a capable battery for the shorty? I wan max capacity and max discharge. I dun care if it protected or not! Thanks!
Words can be broken,
so can bones.
KeepPower (unprotected), Efest, NiteCore and Xtar are all good choices.
“My collection”: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/700139#comment-700139
These are 18350 cells right? Not 16340?
Words can be broken,
so can bones.
Yes, all 18350.
“My collection”: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/700139#comment-700139
THANKS!
Words can be broken,
so can bones.
Thanks! So you’re saying that you built an s8 triple or you used the spacer from one? I wonder what the difference is.
Dustin
Or did you mean you used the S2 spacer (the long one — not the short S2+ spacer) and put it that spacer in a Convoy S8?
Hi guys, I’m sorry I was not clear. I used the longer spacer for the S2 and put it in the S8 host. The S2 and S8 used the same reflector and pill.
The convoy must be better at shedding heat. Must be the pill. It looks more heavy duty than the shelf in the a6. Thanks again tristanxoxo!
Dustin
If a light gets hot faster at the same drive current as another with a similar mass pill it means it’s conducting heat better not worse.
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
Scott
and a similar path — I’ve been wondering why the inside of the X6 head is so empty, for example.
Does the A6 with the S2 pill conduct heat out to the exterior as effectively? Need foil wrap added?
That’s the point. If you have two similar hosts(S2 & A6) both with similar copper spacers added running at similar currents the one that gets hot quicker has a better path. The heat is reaching the surface faster. To “handle” it better, ie have just as good a heat path yet stay cooler one would need to either have more mass, more surface area, or have a bigger mitt wrapped around it.
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
Scott
I don’t think that’s the case here. My S8 was clearly able to maintain max output much longer than the A6. Also they are not very similar IMO. I didn’t weigh them, but the S8 host seems heavier than the A6. I think the size difference in the heatsink/spacer and perhaps the fins on the S8 might be the difference here.
Also I found the S2+ spacer was slightly too small for the shelf of the A6. It would have been more effective if it was a tighter fit.
Or the surface treatment — emissivity is the measure of being able to get rid of heat by emitting infrared, and it can vary enormously even when the visible appearance to human eyes is the same.
Anyone tried doing infrared imaging of the lights, say, tailstanding over time?
It’d be interesting to know not only how fast the surfaces get hot, but how hot they can get and level off — without frying something.
Personally, I’m looking for the steampunk revolution to finally reach flashlight design — a little water jacket enclosure with a safety valve that pops and gives us a steam whistle as a heat warning.
Of course you’d have to be very careful not to have a boiler explosion on your hands. Superheated steam is terrifying.
Been there, done that.
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
Scott
Giggle You’re right. Steam is scary. But someone should totally build a water cooled light for the next build competition complete with a popoff valve!
Edit: Sorry. Way too easy to go astray at this place! Lol….
Ooh – That was post #300 for me!
Dustin
I’ve been astray for a long time.
Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?
Scott
That makes sense in the way of getting the heat out and into your hand but can someone explain the difference between metals conducting vs. shedding heat? I know that’s why the x6v2 was not left completely stainless.
Dustin
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