Pocketable, tight throw

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tenohfive
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Pocketable, tight throw

I’ve found myself looking recently for a really light little thrower – if such a thing exists. Something light enough to be able to justify carrying as a secondary light purely for the purpose of picking out landmarks a long way ahead, whilst relying on another light (in my case a Nitecore HC30 headlamp) for almost all other use. Night hiking and running are what I was thinking about.
Something with a really tight beam – the only real point of reference I have would be a Jacobs A60 (in terms of the tight beam), with no real need for any spill – is that sort of pencil thin beam possible whilst keeping it light (say 100g max) and without spending a small fortune? If not, what’s the nearest alternative and where do compromises need to be made?

OscarM
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Maybe look at uf-t20 or uf-1505? A dedomed xp-g2 on copper throws quite well.

emarkd
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Not sure your definition of “small fortune” but I recently picked up the new Olight R20 Javelot. 85g, 314 m throw advertised. I measured mine at 26.7k cd, which is 327 m throw. You can definitely do better if you’re comfortable building your own, but for a factory light this ones pretty nice. It does have somw flaws though. If you’re interested I’ll expound on those.

JohnnyMac
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Having received my sample of the new BLF X5 I must say I've never seen suck a tiny light throw so well. IIRC, Dale got over 40kcd from his. The only problem is you will have to sign up for the group buy and it will also cost around $45 but you will also get the BLF X6v2 with it which is an insane thrower from a small 18650 light. Another problem is you would have to wait until production starts to get it. Just throwing it out for consideration.  

AlexGT
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Eagletac TX25C2 with a dedomed XP-G2 or XP-L HI and a 22mm FET driver will throw amazingly well and be very pocketable…

will34
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I ordered the R28, one of the newer Niteye/Jerbeam models with XP-L HI, according to the specs they should offer decent throw for the size. There is a groupbuy going on right now which drops the price a lot.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42364

tenohfive
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UF lights too heavy.
Want it really for this winter – the sooner the better – so the BLF X5 bookmarked for future ref, but not ideal right now.
Eagletac looks a little expensive, and whilst I’m game to give simple mods a go I’ve no experience of torch modding.

R28 looks in the right ball park although a touch heavier than I’d like.
Be curious to hear more about the Olight R20 though.

cbrake10
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Look at the manker t01

-Clark

blitzwing
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Cheap Sipik SK68 and run a 14500.

emarkd
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tenohfive wrote:
Be curious to hear more about the Olight R20 though.

Sure. I posted a review on reddit a few days ago, so its all in there, but here’s some highlights:

I think the size is really nice, smaller than most 2-button “tube” lights but not tiny. Its got a very “traditional flashlight” look to it:

As I already mentioned, its got very good throw, XP-L HI emitter, simple reverse clicky UI with no disco modes. No memory either – always high first, which is probably good for your intended purposes. It does have onboard USB charging, if you care, and the port is hidden under a collar not a rubber flap.

Two biggest negatives to me:

1. Proprietary 18650 cell. It’ll run on any battery but can only charge its special cell. This may not matter to you though.

2. Fast regulation down from turbo. My runtime graph looks like this:

So you can see that its at half its initial maximum in about 3 minutes. It doesn’t even get very hot, so it didn’t need to be regulated it so quickly.

The rest of my thoughts and observations are in that review I linked at the top, but if you’ve got any questions I’m happy to help.

Bright_Mike
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Here’s a few:

Http://imageshack.com/a/img633/7443/9beL8I.jpg

The gold one got up to about 2 amps I think? Gets a bit hot but I think it would work for occasional use. Pretty bright even on lower mode if heat’s a problem. Projects the LED.

The black zoomie next to the gold one has impressed me lately, even though it only has a Q5. Throws a tight beam. I got it for under $5, but might have a hard time getting without Lattice Bright LED’s. Might be true of the others, as well.

The long skinny one might be ok for throwing. A C8 would do it if you don’t mindthe size.

1dash1
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tenohfive wrote:
I’ve found myself looking recently for a really light little thrower – if such a thing exists. Something light enough to be able to justify carrying as a secondary light purely for the purpose of picking out landmarks a long way ahead, whilst relying on another light (in my case a Nitecore HC30 headlamp) for almost all other use. Night hiking and running are what I was thinking about. Something with a really tight beam – the only real point of reference I have would be a Jacobs A60 (in terms of the tight beam), with no real need for any spill – is that sort of pencil thin beam possible whilst keeping it light (say 100g max) and without spending a small fortune? If not, what’s the nearest alternative and where do compromises need to be made?

This seems to fit your specifications:
91grams (without battery)
33,700cd beam intensity
367m estimated throw
140mm x 25.4mm (length x diameter)

http://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/p12gt
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-Nitecore-P12GT-CREE-XP-L-HI-V3-1000-Lumens-367m-Beam-Distance-Led-Flashlight/32516425153.html

Rule 1-1 as it applies to life, take it as it comes.

Bright_Mike
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Might be worth a shot, especially if it really has an XP-E. Looks like it’s the same as the light next to the gold light.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121293956157&alt=web

Not sure how well this or the others I listed would hold up to being jostled in a pocket, while running, though.

Bright_Mike
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Glad you started this thread, I’ve been looking closer at the small sun light, and it’s better than I thought. Seems to out-throw a C8, and has an XP-E or something, not a Q5.

I know I can’t really run with a phone in my pocket, so I don’t think youll be able to run with a flashlight in your pocket. Just too much impact imo.

Zoomed out, this one is about 117mm. The auction says 75g.

bugsy
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I suggest the Manker T01.

DB Custom
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The Manker T01 has a nice reflector, same reflector that the X5 will be using and so I know it’s capable of a nice tight spot and some decent throw, but not anything like a Jacobs A60. To get that kind of pencil beam you just have to have a larger diameter head, not something that would be easily pocketable and allow comfortable jogging.

The T01 is quite small though, can be had for ~$50, and is very versatile, able to use AA, NiMH, or Li-ion cells. I have one en-route, couldn’t resist it’s small size and largish head and I already know how well the reflector works. So, it might be feasible to de-dome an XP-G2 for this light and improve it’s downrange throw for your type of usage, but changing the emitter might be problematic in this light as it already has a potted pill/driver.

There is a nice review (or two) on the T01 here in the forum, with one of them showing complete breakdown of the parts. I think when you see that, you’ll also have one en-route… Wink

DB Custom
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Give this thread a serious look, I think your answer is right here…

Manker T01 Review by UPz

Boaz
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if you can mod at all you might want to run small light with a tight tir optic strictly for throw .

or you might consider the lens offered to us all on BLF from illumination supply which can be added easily to a p-60 light

       καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

                            

       Dc-fix diffuser film  >…  http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42208

DB Custom
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Boaz, if you know of a TIR that can out-throw a reflector, please share that information. Wink Especially in a small light.

Remember, when the TIR claims a 10º beam they’re talking half-angle, the effective angle is 20º and no longer impressive at all. For a good tight beam, you’d need an XP-E2 with an Optic claiming around 3-5º to get the effective angle of 6-10º. I’ve searched all of Ledil and Carclo’s inventory, as well as Khatod, looking for such an animal. I’ve tried many in multiple types of lights, and they just don’t seem to get the job done.

Maybe there’s something I’ve been missing…

flashination
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$10.34 pocket thrower.
Build yourself or have made for you. Beer

 

 

 

 

 
 
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tenohfive
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flashination wrote:
$10.34 pocket thrower. Build yourself or have made for you. Beer

Tempted to give that a go as a side project and see how it stacks up against whatever I end up with.

emarkd wrote:
The rest of my thoughts and observations are in that review I linked at the top, but if you’ve got any questions I’m happy to help.

Thanks for that. The negatives of the R20 don’t look like too much of an issue to me, and for a quick turn on and look type thrower 3 minutes sounds plenty.

1dash1 wrote:
http://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/p12gt http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-Nitecore-P12GT-CREE-XP-L-HI-V3-1000-Lumens-367m-Beam-Distance-Led-Flashlight/32516425153.html

That looks interesting, and on paper out-throws both the T01 and the R20 Javelot.

bugsy wrote:
I suggest the Manker T01.

The T01 – for my use – looks very, very good. The form factor is ideal – small and light enough to hold whilst running and not really notice it was there (I used my MT10C last time – not a thrower, but size, weight and instant turbo access worked well. But no more throw than my HT.)

DB Custom wrote:
There is a nice review (or two) on the T01 here in the forum, with one of them showing complete breakdown of the parts. I think when you see that, you’ll also have one en-route… Wink

I really see what you mean – that review really does sell it.

Right now, my thought process is that the Manker T01 best suits from a size and weight perspective – it’ll fit into the palm of the hand when running, or tucked into a hip belt pocket whilst night hiking and just be forgotten about. Whilst neither the P12GT or R20Javelot are large, they’re both 30-40g heavier and run off 18650’s rather than 14500’s – so total weight is likely to be double the T01 and are physically much longer too and less likely to be forgettable in the palm of the hand. In fact both look about the same size and weight as my BLF A6 which gives me a handy frame of reference.

But…I like the idea of 350m+ throw offered by the P12GT over the T01’s quoted 200m.

Nothing much in it price wise, although if anyone knows a way of getting the prices down I’d be all ears – currently seeing around £40/$60 dollars between BG and AliExpress for all three options.

Of the three the T01 tempts me most – it looks like an excellent little light.

emarkd
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I may be alone in this, but I’m really suspect of Nitecore’s numbers for their new GT line. ~350m from a tube light seems too good to be true, even with XP-L HI. I personally am holding off on that line until I see some independent verification of those numbers.

bugsy
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I agree that Nitecore’s numbers are likely inflated or Manker’s numbers are under reality. These lights have similar emitters and are driven similarly, but the Manker has a bigger reflector, so it should throw further.

tenohfive
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Well I’ll be keeping an eye out for the P12GT when some reviews come out (I can’t find any) to see if it does live up to claims, but I’ve ordered the T01. It seems to be the closest thing to what I’m looking for and has some decent reviews. And I don’t own any Manker lights which is a good enough reason alone to order one.

tenohfive
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Quick update:

The T01 arrived today along with a pair of Keeppower protected 840mah 14500’s – the only 14500’s I currently have. And the T01 won’t switch on with either of them. (The cells are fine, tested in an SK68.) They fit, the tailcap closes but it won’t switch on. Which is a disappointment. On the upside with a normal Eneloop AA it turns on fine and – even before I try and get it into pro-mode – has an impressive output. In fact everything I’ve seen so far suggests it’ll be ideal.

Am I going to need to look for unprotected 14500’s though? I’ve got some Xtar 800mah protected cells on order that were intended for a handful of SK68’s, but if the KP ones won’t work what are the chances of the Xtar cells working?

ETA:
Worth ordering a pair of Nitecore 650mah IMR’s to try?

Rufusbduck
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DB Custom wrote:
Boaz, if you know of a TIR that can out-throw a reflector, please share that information. Wink Especially in a small light.

Remember, when the TIR claims a 10º beam they’re talking half-angle, the effective angle is 20º and no longer impressive at all. For a good tight beam, you’d need an XP-E2 with an Optic claiming around 3-5º to get the effective angle of 6-10º. I’ve searched all of Ledil and Carclo’s inventory, as well as Khatod, looking for such an animal. I’ve tried many in multiple types of lights, and they just don’t seem to get the job done.

Maybe there’s something I’ve been missing…


Some optics are rated by FWHM which means the Full Width of the beam at Half Maximum intensity. This is not a half angle measurement but the full width of the beam at the point where the intensity is down to one half maximum. On spot lenses this coincides very closely with the edge of the hotspot. Ledil uses this for optic ratings. They include numbers for different LEDs by different manufacturers as well.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

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tenohfive
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Forgot I’d ordered a pair of IMR14500’s already. One’s a dud but the T01 works with the remaining one – so I’m happy.

It’s a great little light. Despite the oversized head (relative term here – it’s still less than 30mm diameter) it fits perfectly in the hand and there’s no weight to it. Will be taking it out for it’s intended purpose soon but just mucking about with it I can see why others are so impressed with it.

shrick
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Mmm, what about a Convoy S2 with SMO reflector & AR lens running a dedomed XP-G2 S4 on copper with FET driver, or then dedomed XP-E2 on copper @ 2.5 amps. Especially the XP-E2 should do great with throw, will be a pencil type beam, but thats the requirement? Otherwise dedomed XP-G2 S4 should also do good, less throw, more lumens. Very pocketable… and the advantage of 18650 over 14500. Heavier though, but still very pocketable.

tenohfive
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shrick wrote:
Mmm, what about a Convoy S2 with SMO reflector & AR lens running a dedomed XP-G2 S4 on copper with FET driver, or then dedomed XP-E2 on copper @ 2.5 amps. Especially the XP-E2 should do great with throw, will be a pencil type beam, but thats the requirement? Otherwise dedomed XP-G2 S4 should also do good, less throw, more lumens. Very pocketable… and the advantage of 18650 over 14500. Heavier though, but still very pocketable.

How much would the parts set me back, would it involve any soldering and is are we talking about fairly easy mods here?
I’ve got the T01 anyway but I’m looking for a project to break me into modding gently in the new year, wondering if that might tick the boxes.

shrick
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tenohfive wrote:
shrick wrote:
Mmm, what about a Convoy S2 with SMO reflector & AR lens running a dedomed XP-G2 S4 on copper with FET driver, or then dedomed XP-E2 on copper @ 2.5 amps. Especially the XP-E2 should do great with throw, will be a pencil type beam, but thats the requirement? Otherwise dedomed XP-G2 S4 should also do good, less throw, more lumens. Very pocketable… and the advantage of 18650 over 14500. Heavier though, but still very pocketable.

How much would the parts set me back, would it involve any soldering and is are we talking about fairly easy mods here?
I’ve got the T01 anyway but I’m looking for a project to break me into modding gently in the new year, wondering if that might tick the boxes.

I believe it will tick the box. Only problem is you’ll probably have to source all your parts from the US, you’ll get all from Mountain Electronics. You also have to first decide if you want to go XP-G2 which will give around 900 lumens & 350-450m of throw, or XP-E2 which will give around 350-400 lumens with more throw. I have not build an XP-E2 Convoy S2 yet, so cannot comment on throw figures… Maybe someone else can chime in.

I’ve planned to build exactly these 2 lights somewhere soon. If you insist, I’ll build them and give feedback on the exact lumens & throw figures? Let me know… Maybe then you can decide how you’d like to proceed. Take note that the XP-E2 version will give almost double the runtime.

shrick
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tenohfive, some feedback on the builds I’ve done. The Convoy S2 XP-E2 version did not work hey, I retract my recommendation on this. Throw really not as good as I thought – just does not do it.

Herewith the specs on the Convoy S2 XP-G2 build…

  • Dedomed XP-G2 S4 2B
  • MTN 17mm FET Driver (Turbo Timer of 30s – its heats up quick)
  • 18 Gauge Wire
  • AR Lens
  • Braided springs, driver & switch

I tested with a LG HG2 3000mah

  • Amps at tail – 5.1
  • Lux Start – 1200 at 6.2m -> 46,128 Lux -> 429.5m
  • Lux 30s – 1050 at 6.2m -> 40,362 Lux -> 401.8m
  • Lumens Start – 1045.5
  • Lumens 30s – 923.1

So, its definitely pocketable and does very well for its size, but its maybe not the ‘thrower’ that you’re looking for. Also take note that the light warms up very quickly when pushed this hard.

The Eagle Eye X6 might be closer to what you’d be looking for. I don’t have practical experience with the X6, but there’s many here that do have. Sure they’d be happy to share some feedback. I believe a well tuned X6 (dedomed XP-G2) should do around 100,000 lux (630m) and it handles heat much better than the S2. Also, as mentioned, a tricked out Convoy C8 (dedomed XP-G2) is an excellent light – will do around 160,000 lux (800m) but its a bit less pocketable than the X6.

Also remember the light cannot sustain the above figure for very long. The light get pushed to its limits and the batteries work very hard. I believe any of the lights mentioned above should give around 30-40min until around 10% output left.

Herewith some photos of the 3 lights compared:

Hope it helps Wink

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