What did you mod today?

10495 posts / 0 new
Last post
jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

Rayoui wrote:
With the Zircon 803 installed over the LH351Ds, R9 came in at 96 as you can see in the data above. That’s what I found most impressive since the LH351D typically comes in around R9 60-70.

I’ll retake measurements without the filter when I get a chance.

thanks for clarifying, I was confusing SST with LH351d
that IS a big jump in expected R9 for an LH351d,

great visuals, love your color graphs

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 503
Location: Portland, OR
jon_slider wrote:
for reference, could you also post the same light without the -green filter?
CCT Duv CRI R9
C8+ 351D 4000K Without filter 4200K 0.0039 91 70
C8+ 351D 4000K With filter 4060K -0.0019 97 94
D80v2 351D 4000K Sliced 3800K 0.0012 93 77

Edit: added D80v2 with sliced LH351D

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

outstanding results, never expected R9 to go up by 34% from using an 80% transmissive pink filter. (minus green)

great info.. you are the first to ever make me aware, of the strong positive effect of Lee Filters on R9.

thank you!

thefreeman
thefreeman's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 43 sec ago
Joined: 01/06/2020 - 09:56
Posts: 782
Location: France

I generally see +10~20 pts of Ra with 803, 5~10 with 804.
This LH351D 4000k with +24pts is indeed significant but don’t expect it to always be that high.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4518
Location: California

jon_slider wrote:
outstanding results, never expected R9 to go up by 34% from using an 80% transmissive pink filter. (minus green)

great info.. you are the first to ever make me aware, of the strong positive effect of Lee Filters on R9.

thank you!

Of course, it’s not really increasing the output of R9. Rather the filter is just reducing the output of all the other colors so they match the R9. Result is in a CRI test, R9 rates higher.

Filters do have some disadvantages.

  • Expect output to drop significantly. Sometimes close to 20%.
  • Expect color temperature to drop. Sometimes 500K or more.

roostre
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 03/09/2020 - 23:37
Posts: 243
Location: Pac. NW

Firelight2 wrote:
...Filters do have some disadvantages...

Do the filters last forever (like for several years), or does their effectiveness change with time (even when not in use) or from using the light for hours at a time?

 

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 13 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3642
Location: US

Doesn’t it also diffuse the beam some reducing the spot intensity?

Maybe i’m wrong but I always told myself that was the tradeoff I disliked the most. Narrow beam angles and reflectors generally have the most need for “adjustment” but also the biggest impact from filtering so it really is unfortunate if that is the case.

thefreeman
thefreeman's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 43 sec ago
Joined: 01/06/2020 - 09:56
Posts: 782
Location: France
roostre wrote:

Do the filters last forever (like for several years), or does their effectiveness change with time (even when not in use) or from using the light for hours at a time?


 

I did a test here but I didn’t test for a very long duration.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

Firelight2 wrote:
Of course, it’s not really increasing the output of R9. Rather the filter is just reducing the output of all the other colors so they match the R9.
that makes sense…

apparently the CRI test does not show that reduction, it seems to rescale all the bars higher, not lower

that does not mean the comment is wrong, to me it means the CRI test is faulty. Because the test makes the filter look good on paper, but not in my reality.

from my personal experience with Lee minus green filters, they make the illuminated area Look like there is a Pink wash over everything … I really dont care for them, at all. They are, to me, just a cheap plastic toy to play with.. I do not take them seriously, and would not want one on a light I consider valuable or special…

and yes, the lumen penalty is another reason I lose interest in filters..

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4518
Location: California

roostre wrote:

Firelight2 wrote:
…Filters do have some disadvantages…

Do the filters last forever (like for several years), or does their effectiveness change with time (even when not in use) or from using the light for hours at a time?


 


They degrade over time.

Regular Lee filters degrade very fast. A few months at most in a high output light.

Lee Zircon filters are specially designed for LED use. They last much longer. They’ll still degrade, but I suspect it might be a few years before it is really noticeable.

Fortunately, the filters come in sheets. One sheet gives enough material for many filters.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4518
Location: California

jon_slider wrote:
from my personal experience with Lee minus green filters, they make the illuminated area Look like there is a Pink wash over everything.

The “pink wash” you mention is probably just the filter lowering the color temperature lowering to something below what you prefer.

If you prefer 4500K, you probably won’t be happy putting a filter on your 4500K LED. The filter might lower the color temperature below 4000K. Try starting with an LED with a cooler color temperature than you normally use. Then when you apply the filter, hopefully it will lower the color temperature to your preferred level.

Also, if things look TOO pink, the issue might be the filter lowered the output too far below the Black Body Line. In that case, perhaps the minus green filter you’re using is too strong. Try a weaker filter that does not remove as much green.

mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3125
Location: Illinois, USA

My main EDC is an FW1A that I installed an LH351D @ 4000k into as soon as I bought it. I would love to try this out for grins, how small a chunk can the Zircon filters be purchase in and do you just cut them with scissors?

Thanks Matt

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

flightless22
flightless22's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2018 - 12:07
Posts: 518
Location: California
jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

mattlward wrote:
how small a chunk can the Zircon filters be purchase

this swatch book has a 1×3” piece of over 200 samples.. among them are about 5 levels of minus green

they are not the high temperature Zircon version.. I think Boaz is better for that

imo, you would do better by slicing the domes, than putting pink plastic (lee filters) under the lens.. yes, its thin plastic, and cuts easily.. I use the lens as a template and cut around with an exacto.. I cant cut a round circle with scissors at all.

mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3125
Location: Illinois, USA
jon_slider wrote:
imo, you would do better by slicing the domes, than putting pink plastic (lee filters) under the lens.. yes, its thin plastic, and cuts easily.. I use the lens as a template and cut around with an exacto.. I cant cut a round circle with scissors at all.

Jon, I am not unhappy with the color temperature… but the led does not seem to have the pop I expected. It just does not seem to live up to the CRI numbers. I chose that emitter due to the fact that it is the right temperature, pretty efficient and works really well in the reflector. The SST-20 had a to tight hotspot along with an XP-L Hi and the HD just does do anything for me. I have never tried to change the tint in this manner. I do use them from time to time with digital IR photography, but that is a different beast.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

mattlward wrote:
the led does not seem to have the pop I expected. It just does not seem to live up to the CRI numbers.

I also find the LH351d a bit “washed out”.
I blame two factors that are different than the SW45k
The LH351d has less R9 CRI (specifically the Red output). The SST and sw45k are 90+ R9 CRI.. the LH351d is lucky to hit 70..

the second factor is that LH351d, and also SST-20, have positive DUV, iow, Tint above the BBL, in the yellow/green range, instead of the sw45k which has tint below BBL

by slicing the LH351d, you move the Tint below the BBL.. it does also lower the CCT 500 points

anyway, I hope you find a combination that suits you.

I agree btw that both the SST and 219b have smaller hotspots than the LH351d..

the supposed extra efficiency of the LH351d is spread over a larger target, so though more total lumens, is not necessarily more Lux on target

the LH351d tried to lay a claim to the sw45k throne, and imo, the coup failed miserably

even after cutting the dome off the LED.. LOL

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4518
Location: California

I quite like sliced LH351D. Specifically the “dog farts” bin at 5000K.

Output feels a lot like XPL HI, but with better CRI.

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 503
Location: Portland, OR
thefreeman wrote:
I generally see +10~20 pts of Ra with 803, 5~10 with 804. This LH351D 4000k with +24pts is indeed significant but don’t expect it to always be that high.

Yes, with most other high CRI / low R9 emitters I’ve tested the filter with I usually get R9 coming in around the 70s. The Zircon filters do seem to be particularly suited to the LH351D’s phosphor mix.

contactcr wrote:
Doesn’t it also diffuse the beam some reducing the spot intensity?

Maybe i’m wrong but I always told myself that was the tradeoff I disliked the most. Narrow beam angles and reflectors generally have the most need for “adjustment” but also the biggest impact from filtering so it really is unfortunate if that is the case.

I don’t notice any diffusion of the beam. It’s slightly less intense due to slight loss of lumens (in this case about 15% flux) but the hotspot is the same size.

jon_slider wrote:
that does not mean the comment is wrong, to me it means the CRI test is faulty. Because the test makes the filter look good on paper, but not in my reality.

from my personal experience with Lee minus green filters, they make the illuminated area Look like there is a Pink wash over everything … I really dont care for them, at all. They are, to me, just a cheap plastic toy to play with.. I do not take them seriously, and would not want one on a light I consider valuable or special…

and yes, the lumen penalty is another reason I lose interest in filters..

The output is being slightly lowered but the test isn’t faulty. A spectrometer compares a number of color samples to a set of known samples under a 100 CRI (incandescent) source and figures the difference. More deviation results in a lower R(x) number. If the spectrometer is reading the R(x) value as high, in this case it means the filter is causing the color to be rendered very closely to how it appeared under a 100 CRI source (with all other considerations such as CCT and tint taken into account).

If your filter caused the light to become washed in a pink hue, you probably used a much too aggressive filter and went too negative on the Duv. I personally find an LED that is too pink to be just as offensive as a green one.

jon_slider wrote:
imo, you would do better by slicing the domes, than putting pink plastic (lee filters) under the lens.. yes, its thin plastic, and cuts easily.. I use the lens as a template and cut around with an exacto.. I cant cut a round circle with scissors at all.

Slicing the dome of the LH351D does improve the tint slightly but not to the same degree as a filter. It will also result in a much more aggressive shift in color temperature. You will also lose some luminous flux, just as with a filter (though slicing will result in an increase in intensity).

Also keep in mind that while slicing the LH351D results in a decrease in Duv, this won’t be the case with all LEDs. With most emitters, Duv will increase significantly after sliced or dedomed.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America
Rayoui wrote:
I don’t notice any diffusion of the beam.

I agree, did not notice much diffusion, just coloration..

Rayoui wrote:
The output is being slightly lowered but the test isn’t faulty.

Very helpful. Thanks for helping me to understand better.. all the colors are being reduced by the filter, but at that reduced level, they are more balanced (R9 goes up and the others appear to also increase)

Rayoui wrote:
Slicing the dome of the LH351D does improve the tint slightly but not to the same degree as a filter.

agree

Rayoui wrote:
Also keep in mind that while slicing the LH351D results in a decrease in Duv, this won’t be the case with all LEDs.

thanks, I did not know, was only addressing mattlward’s LH351d “low pop LH351d” solutions

you have convinced me mattlward should try a filter

I volunteer someone (Rayoui?) to sent mattlward a piece of Zircon 803 Wink

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 503
Location: Portland, OR

I’d be willing to donate a piece of 803. I can also spare a piece of 802 and 804, for science.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America
Beer Thumbs Up Crown
mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3125
Location: Illinois, USA
Rayoui wrote:
I’d be willing to donate a piece of 803. I can also spare a piece of 802 and 804, for science.

It would be interesting if the effects of each were tested.

I have an FW3A setup with sliced 351d’s, the dogfights. It is very nice indeed.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

Xandre
Xandre's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/06/2011 - 07:02
Posts: 505
Location: South Germany
Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 503
Location: Portland, OR
mattlward wrote:
It would be interesting if the effects of each were tested.

Here is a great post by maukka comparing several Zircon filters and some standard minus green filters.

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1238850#comment-1238850

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 30 min 1 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17961
Location: Amsterdam

Xandre wrote:
https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/s-ansmaxabeam-nachtt%C3%B6pfl...

Regards Xandre


Hi Xandre,
How do you keep the fresnel lens flat? It is really big but still thin plastic. Is it mounted all around in a stress-free way?

And what is the parabolic part of the body made of?

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 4964
Location: Central North America

Lumintop TiTool AAA mod to 219b 3500k

NeutralFan
NeutralFan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 48 min ago
Joined: 03/20/2014 - 19:22
Posts: 1508
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Thanks for the link Rayoui – very interesting read.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

MoreLumens
MoreLumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 39 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 10/25/2019 - 07:08
Posts: 1637
Location: Finland

Swapped this HIGH CRI beast into my BLF A6:

XP-L HI 3000K 90 CRI.

Compared to Nichia 219b sw45k, SST20 4000k and XP-L 5000k:

Just beautiful. Looks more yellowish in real life. Kinda like rising sun.

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 503
Location: Portland, OR

Swapped the emitter in my SF A2. CRI/R9 is great Big Smile

I’ve got some high CRI warm white 5mm LEDs on the way with which I’m going to try swapping the secondary LEDs (currently red). That should make for an interesting amalgamation of new and old world tech, especially with its buck converter driven Xenon lamp.

mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3125
Location: Illinois, USA

Well guys, about my most lame mod ever… I have been having eye problems and could not see to mod. Don’t know if I will ever get back to building my own drivers or not.

I have been on a kick with AA/14500 lights lately, not much out there with a decent driver. Now, I love the P60 modules for testing new emitters and drivers, way back in my P60 bin I had a Solarforce .8-4.2V XP-G R5 dropin. As you could guess, from Solarforce a very low drive current, crappy CW emitter. But, 3 decently space modes!

To me, this was almost no use because of the existing emitter. Given that high mode on 14500 is only about .9 amps, I decided to use something with a fairly low Vf… this required Nichia of course. I have them all from sw-30, sw-40, sw-45, sw-45k and sometimes multiple bins, my favorite emitter, But, my eyes… so I found that I had 2 sw-40 D200 already on Noctigons… Swapped out the nasty XP-G, wire soldering was bad enough. But now I have a very low voltage dropin that I swear now has a bit more output and makes my eyes happy.

The copper tape on the dropin is cut and folded back on itself to all for a better fit in the FiveMega 18500 tube. It was not making reliable contact without it. Someone told me there is a fitment ring made that drops in on top of the dropin, under the retainer that would likely fix that issue. According to FM the tube is SolarForce parts compatible, that switch and one other are the only 2 that I had that would screw on the tube. I was really bummed by that as I really want this to tail stand as it is a SHTF light for me. Overall, I am fairly happy with the final product.

I have Convoy low voltage drivers on the way, if they ever get here… I will test them in a shell, they will take more work as they are springless, I will either cut as solder a longer brass pin on the driver or see if the old AK springs will fit and find a longer version of them for the driver. But, the Convoy driver is 4 mode and a bit higher current draw. A good while back I built a dropin based on the Jaxman M2 driver for 2xAA operation and I am reasonably happy with it as well.

On an interesting side note, I compared all of my ECD 4000k lights in low modes to this dropin… Most look sick! I have lights with 2 bins of SST-20, 2 bins of Lh351D and with XP-L 5A3 and 5D2. Of all of them, the 5D2 was about a perfect tint match, but much lower CRI. All of the SST’s and one of my LH351D’s looked down right yellow green next to this emitter.

Anyone have an extra one of this dropin? I would really like one more, not sure why I only bought one at the time. I guess I figured SolarForce would be around forever.

!FM1_5 host!
!1_5v dropin!

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

Pages