Join me on the blacklists and make the budget-flashlight-world a better place!

1 of the reasons I bought many budgetlights is the annotance I felt with the fact that there is so much rubbish being sold.
As a newbie I must confess that if I had not become an active member here and just had left it to my first order (a baseball bat shaped torch and the G700 lookalike with 18650 cell and charger) I probably was using that very satisfied and happy with the lights that both are brighter then anyting we had before it.
Needless to say, using a cheap flimsy charger with a Ultrafire 18650 poses some dangers and therefore I am very glad I found this forum and got a warm welcome here.

However, now there is a problem, many consumers wil buy crappy sh# and use it being happy with it. And I see a tendency where a lot of forum members just warn and accept that crp is being sold.

I think it is up to us to do something and I know that doing something will help.
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Recently a seller on AliExpress told me a lot of sellers have notes about me and that I was blacklisted from buying flashlights from them.
I received this the day after a seller cancelled an order stating the flashlight is no longer available, while the product page says otherwise.

I feel honored by this.
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What did I do to earn this honorable place on this blacklist used by some cheating/lying/scamming flashlight vendors?
Simple, I bought flashlights that had certain specs and information on their product pages, checked the received product and compared it. When it did not match I contated the seller and asked for the advertised product.
In all cases I had to open a dispute, and most of them are finished with me getting a refund and not having to send the items back. Some of them are now escalated, meaning AliExpress will decide (and give seller and me several options to provide evidence.)
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Results I had:
When I looked for Convoy C8 there were 16 pages of inferior results, maening **fire or other brands with a Convoy C8 like model.
I bought 1 and well it just did not match and I got a refund.
The same day all the cheaper C8s were pulled and when searching for Convoy C8 only gave seemingly real results.
I was happy, but well there were still Ultrafire C8 or other fake brands being sold, for me tha is less of a problem, at least these seller did try to lift on the Convoy brand name.
Unfortunately, they are slowly returning now, with 2 to 4 shady results.
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Sky Ray Kings
Refunded for 3, 3 disputes in progress.
I looked for the ones with signs of quality, there were about 21 when I started.
As soon as my first refund was decided 16 were pulled and I ordered the remaining 5.
I talked to sellers and a few hanged the product page, or talked to the manufacterer.
I love the SRK and we want to mod them, so free hosts is a nice win for us.
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Right now there are 4 flashlights underway advertised with XM-L leds, 2 different ones, and we will scrutinize them when they arrive.
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We have the information to make sellers of conterfeit goods lose money on selling crap.
WE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN DO THIS, normal consumers are impressed by poor quality stuff because most of them are used to even worse or older ones. See the reviews of the G700from normal onsumers to prove this point.
We can warn others by giving reviews on the product pages.
We get our money back, have free hosts or parts ( for example the reflector of the fake C8 gave a little better beam so I use it in a genuine C8)
It is great fun starting a dispute and provide evdence and get refunded, satisfying!
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So why not order 1 shady looking light every month?
In this win win situation, either it is decent and you have a decent flashlight or parts. Or it is fake and you get a host/parts or present for the little kid next door for free (I now go only for lights that also accept 3xAAA cells just for this reason)
The big win is that in communication with the sellers we can ask them to simply use the correct specs.
Let them put down LatticeBright as LED brand when it is in there. So even uninformed consumers can make the correct choice or clearly see why flashlight A is cheaper then flashlight B.

If BLF manages to get several hunderds of orders for expensive flashlights surely we can send earthquakes throught the lights (pun intended :laughing: of deceitfull sellers.
And while we are at it, when you receive the message you are put on a blacklist you know you have done something right, right?

Sounds like a path to being banned from Aliexpress and not just from a few sellers...

Well if that is the case so be it.
This far AliExpress seems to be and wanting to be a platform that is about safe and decent buying.
In a dispute I had they even changed the nature of the dispute from “item not as described” to “received counterfeit goods” after seeing the pictures.

If proving sellers are not honest gets me banned I do not want to buy there anymore anyways.

I suggest using a different name and different Aliexpress account for this. As they might eventually ban or limit you. Can you get pre-paid visa gift cards to use for payment? And if you live in a house you might be able to add an apartment number onto your address (to make more difficult for them to associate you 100% to the address). Not sure if the French postal system has a problem with that.

One of the advantages of the web is to educate yourself as a consumer. There will always be bad products, sellers and scams. It will probably not be the platform’s fault (ebay, ali, …). Stay here and similar forums and learn from the knowledge shared and also meet really good people.

1) google as much as possible and research reviews going forward for products you rely on
2) use entropay or other virtual payment solutions. It is an expensive solution but it works on ali, ebay, paypal, (…)- any name and address works.

Well I am on a roll and I must say I do not order JUST to open disputes.
I order because I like what I see.

Here the two most recent examples.
I see this flashing (pun intended ;)) by and show it to my son. He is like WAUW so I order it.
This is based on the specs and looks.
A win win, either it is as described win, or it is not and I will have a dispute.

Then I ordered something with a different name that looked the same as this one.
That order was actually the one cancelled.
But I like the looks, it is beautifull because of its uglyness :slight_smile: like a 80s sci fi movie prop AND the size seems interesting with a head comparable to the SRK.
So I look furter and actually find it with ths strange name ZY-T107 and order, again based on specs and looks, but I will not hesistate to open a dispute if it is not as described.

Good luck to you on your crusade but that is just way to much effort for me. I will just stick to buying the quality brand lights where you don’t have this problem. My time is worth more than arguing with an online seller over a $15 ultrafire light.

If before ordering you have the knowledge or the strong suspicion that their specs claims are bogus aren’t you basically stealing ?

Now let’s say that it’s a mean to higher intentions that are to stop sellers making bogus claims, wouldn’t you engage in this only if you had a reasonable chance to reach the ultimate goal ?

The inflated specs on chinese lights is so widespread that i can’t see how hurting a few vendors on a specific platform could change anything.

That is the point, when something is presented we should be able to trust that.

And yes calling their lies does help, search for Convoy C8 on AliExpress and tell me how many sub $10 you find
When I ordered my clone there were 16 pages of them. So on each page much more then the total now when I search.

Also now with the SRK I do not trust it and do not order another. I do however send sellers a message pointing them to the faulty information factories provide and some have changed the product page and thanked me, this is how it is supposed to be, a honest seller wants to sell good stuff. But they do not check all their products and simply copy paste provided information

Definitely not stealing. He’s just playing the Chinese lottery, and he’s playing by the rules set forth.

I cannot support you bad behavior.
Learn what lights ARE actually meeting the specs by reading this forum. and buy those.

The problem here is that aliexpress could make buyer protection harder? Or the vendors could start naming things different?
No matter what you buy and where you buy it from even shops here in Australia could be selling fakes so we are not safe!

Well this is ironic since I did just that and based on the (older) reviews I choose to add the Sky Ray Kings to my cart.
The ones with different drivers and buttons I ignored. Received the first and the key features were not as described or depicted.

Luckily I got infected by the flashlight virus but many consumers will just buy 1 and be happy with it, using bad chargers and cells without even knowing this.
I expressed before I feel deep gratitude towards this community and are very happy with my Panasonic cells and decent charger and more importantly all the knowledge found here (hence my little GAW)
We just cannot expect ordinary consumers to dive into this matter for a flashlight and we could help them by not letting sellers get away with everything (having some fun doing do I might add.)

Hey, if you really want to make the world a better place for the maximum number of people by complaining and demanding refunds, why not try buying webcams?

Keeping the products after refund
( and continuing to do so)
shows a lack of integrity.

We all have some degree of disappointment with the Chinese merchants
apparant lack of Business Ethics & Integrity—but your version of
Capitalist Vigilatism does nothing to help, and is going to make things worse

I support your crusade. The Chinese and other vendors have gotten away with exaggerated claims and inferior substitution. This hurt legitimate manufactures who hold to ANSI standards or any thread of ethics. If it says 16,000 lumens with Cree XM-L2’s and 9600 mah 18650’s, then it better well come close to that. Caveat emptor is the Chinese method it seems, so if they play that way then play back with their warranties they use. Most civilized societies use warranties to alleviate buyers fears of being duped and because they know they sell real products. Others use it as a smoke screen to appear legitimate. An informed buyer is the best route but why should I have to join a forum and research tons of material on any item I may want to buy then worry if I get what I really ordered. This is fault is on both sides, our for accepting it just because that’s the way it is. I don’t condone theft and deception, why should the buying public just say “Well we know it fake, that’s just the way it is” As an informed community we know what it is most of the time. What of the rest who get cheated? So who here condones lying, cheating, fraud and theft?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

“”So who here condones lying, cheating, fraud and theft?“”
Exactly.
2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Really? Look at the last two flashlights I ordered… (A few posts back).
I ordered them because we like them.
Suppose they arrive and have genuine Cree leds in them and work good. I will be happy and that is the end to it.
Suppose they have LaticeBright in them, isn’t it logical I ask for the torch I ordered?

Unethical to keep them? Hello I checked and sending a SRK back would cost ~$29
Why should I pay this when a seller does provide wrong information?

(Edit I just thought of a nice theme for a avatar, don quichotte hmm yes later I will take something like that)

Rye-tea-OH, much more righteous than fighting in the courts is fighting in the trenches. Do as you must.

After the Chinese lights, go after eBay.

And after eBay, go after Amazon.

And after Amazon … :evil: