Thorfire 5000 mah 26650 cells

65 posts / 0 new
Last post
Speed4goal
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 06/11/2016 - 13:03
Posts: 1204
Location: Bay, St. Louis Mississippi

I use these thorfire cells in my s70 and plan on using them in the l6 when it lands this week. Haven’t had any issues with them and honestly I’ll probably by more of them next time im shopping on Amazon. Takes awhile to charge back up but I’m using xtar vc2. But I’d rather slow charge my cells and get more useful life. I have another set to switch them out with and like 16 18650s. The lg hg2 work well in the s70 but with 3000 mah it goes in turbo. Panasonic 18650b is a really bad fit light ran but had to keep adjusting tailcap hg2, and 30q had no problems

2/9 Fox Co (2009-2015) Semper Fi 0311/0331 Rifleman/Machine Gunner
Blf has changed a lot since I've been here. Lots of snow flakes and easily offended over nothing. When the forum use to be great and people joked around and could take a joke. It's a forum it's not that serious. Let's make BLF great again!

KutKhemist
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 week ago
Joined: 01/15/2016 - 01:09
Posts: 114

I can vouch for these batteries, using them in my L6 right now with no problems. Tested capacity at 5148 and 5276 4.21v. Better than my AWT 26650 "4500mah", i tested these at around 3700 to 3800mah 4.21v (I think there are same as efest re wraps). I like these Thorfire guys, they warrantied a light I bought of Amazon after the 30day period (it was actually 3 months after I bought it) and it came from a West coast warehouse in 4 days. They asked me to do a amazon review, I refused but still got the light!

light-wolff
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 16:16
Posts: 219
Location: Germany

I have received 2 examples of Thorfire 26650 5000mAh for testing from a member of German TLF.

I will post discharge curves for 1/3/5/7/10A (maybe 15A too) this weeekend.

But I can say one thing for sure already: they are NOT PROTECTED

I discharged them with up to 30A (my equipment’s limit). The cell voltage at this current rapidly goes below 2,0V, but the battery does not switch off.
Apparently there is neither any overcurrent nor any undervoltage cutoff.
There is also no visible sign of a protection circuit on the negative or positive pole.

So no matter what “Thorfire” writes on the wrapper: these are unprotected cells! IMHO this puts them in line with other infamous “brands” doing the same thing.
But at least the capacity rating is not inflated.
And the 10A rating is also ok.

202bigmike
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2014 - 12:09
Posts: 896
Location: USA

light-wolff wrote:
I have received 2 examples of Thorfire 26650 5000mAh for testing from a member of German TLF.

I will post discharge curves for 1/3/5/7/10A (maybe 15A too) this weeekend.

But I can say one thing for sure already: they are NOT PROTECTED

I discharged them with up to 30A (my equipment’s limit). The cell voltage at this current rapidly goes below 2,0V, but the battery does not switch off.
Apparently there is neither any overcurrent nor any undervoltage cutoff.
There is also no visible sign of a protection circuit on the negative or positive pole.

So no matter what “Thorfire” writes on the wrapper: these are unprotected cells! IMHO this puts them in line with other infamous “brands” doing the same thing.
But at least the capacity rating is not inflated.
And the 10A rating is also ok.

Is there anyone else out there , with any type of knowledge whether or not these

Thorfire 26650 (5000mAh) batteries are protected or not-protected as factory claimed ?

Please help us find out , what the truth is.

mhanlen
mhanlen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 days ago
Joined: 03/01/2013 - 11:42
Posts: 2601
Location: Eastern USA

I’ve been using these in my L6 and… I assumed they were protected. I guess that light has a good low voltage cut off.

light-wolff
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 16:16
Posts: 219
Location: Germany

202bigmike wrote:
light-wolff wrote:
I have received 2 examples of Thorfire 26650 5000mAh for testing from a member of German TLF.

I will post discharge curves for 1/3/5/7/10A (maybe 15A too) this weeekend.

But I can say one thing for sure already: they are NOT PROTECTED

I discharged them with up to 30A (my equipment’s limit). The cell voltage at this current rapidly goes below 2,0V, but the battery does not switch off.
Apparently there is neither any overcurrent nor any undervoltage cutoff.
There is also no visible sign of a protection circuit on the negative or positive pole.

So no matter what “Thorfire” writes on the wrapper: these are unprotected cells! IMHO this puts them in line with other infamous “brands” doing the same thing.
But at least the capacity rating is not inflated.
And the 10A rating is also ok.

Is there anyone else out there , with any type of knowledge whether or not these

Thorfire 26650 (5000mAh) batteries are protected or not-protected as factory claimed ?

Please help us find out , what the truth is.


The truth is: they are unprotected, as many have suspected already because the batteries are too short to carry a PCB.
And they can’t stand more than 10 amps, show very rapid voltage decay at 15 amps, probably a PTC kicking in (so it wouldn’t be totally unprotected).
sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

This confusion may be why flashlight manufacturers are beginning to use proprietary batteries in high output flashlights as a hedge against product liability.

We need certain amount of regulation to restrict misinformation being used in product advertising and promotion.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

LessDark
LessDark's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/22/2015 - 09:00
Posts: 52
Location: Norway

Damn, i just ordered a coupple of these…I’ll have to return them then if this is true, I do not want unprotected batteries…
I guess it was too good to be true.

202bigmike
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2014 - 12:09
Posts: 896
Location: USA

light-wolff wrote:
202bigmike wrote:
light-wolff wrote:
I have received 2 examples of Thorfire 26650 5000mAh for testing from a member of German TLF.

I will post discharge curves for 1/3/5/7/10A (maybe 15A too) this weeekend.

But I can say one thing for sure already: they are NOT PROTECTED

I discharged them with up to 30A (my equipment’s limit). The cell voltage at this current rapidly goes below 2,0V, but the battery does not switch off.
Apparently there is neither any overcurrent nor any undervoltage cutoff.
There is also no visible sign of a protection circuit on the negative or positive pole.

So no matter what “Thorfire” writes on the wrapper: these are unprotected cells! IMHO this puts them in line with other infamous “brands” doing the same thing.
But at least the capacity rating is not inflated.
And the 10A rating is also ok.

Is there anyone else out there , with any type of knowledge whether or not these

Thorfire 26650 (5000mAh) batteries are protected or not-protected as factory claimed ?

Please help us find out , what the truth is.


The truth is: they are unprotected, as many have suspected already because the batteries are too short to carry a PCB.
And they can’t stand more than 10 amps, show very rapid voltage decay at 15 amps, probably a PTC kicking in (so it wouldn’t be totally unprotected).

LW , I hope you’re not thinking that I was implying that you don’t know what you are saying. Not the case at all !
I’m just looking for more verifications to the cells being not protected as they are advertised !—This meaning the
second , third and so on , other opinions about the veracity of their stated protection.

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

“ThorFire 5000mah 3.7V 26650 Battery Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Flashlight (Pack of 2) by Thorfire”

Amazon.com U.S.

Under specifications there is no mention of being ‘protected’.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

202bigmike
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2014 - 12:09
Posts: 896
Location: USA

sidecross wrote:
“ThorFire 5000mah 3.7V 26650 Battery Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Flashlight (Pack of 2) by Thorfire”

Amazon.com U.S.

Under specifications there is no mention of being ‘protected’.

You’re correct . In that Amazon ad “Protected” is stated in the main heading of the ThorFire advertisement.
Also in the body of the ad , it’s stated that there’s “protection recharge integrated circuitry built in” ! Now,
read a little further in that ad and notice their slick , somewhat backhanded way of MAYBE denying protection.
It reads: (ThorFire Protected button top 26650 battery is a bit LONGER than “other” NON-Protected alternatives.
Other NON-Protected ! How do we figure it out ? What’s your interpretation ? It appears to me that the ad has
some false advertising attributes !

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

202bigmike wrote:
In that Amazon ad “Protected” is stated in the main heading of the ThorFire advertisement.
Also in the body of the ad , it’s stated that there’s “protection recharge integrated circuitry built in” ! Now,
read a little further in that ad and notice their slick , somewhat backhanded way of MAYBE denying protection.
It reads: (ThorFire Protected button top 26650 battery is a bit LONGER than “other” NON-Protected alternatives.
Other NON-Protected ! How do we figure it out ? What’s your interpretation ? It appears to me that the ad has
some false advertising attributes !

There will always be a need for critical reading and evaluation; a misunderstanding can be an intentional act.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

bella-headlight
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/10/2016 - 16:17
Posts: 1180
Location: United Kingdom

202bigmike, I did say earlier in this thread that I was not 100% sure whether these cells were protected due to their length but that Thorfire had stated in an email to me that they were.
From what light-wolff has posted it would seem that my suspicions were correct.
What I can say (& is confirmed by several other users of these cells in this & other threads) is that they are the claimed capacity, have low IR & certainly perform fine in lights drawing up to around 6.5A.
Personally nearly all my cells are non protected & I am personally content to use non protected cells.
If you need protected 26650 cells then the easy answer is to purchase some Keeppower 5200 mah protected IMR“s as these are confirmed as a good cell with protection.
I have a pair of KP“s & they are good cells but are 2-3 times the cost of the Thorfire, Basen & Liitokala 26650“s I have & do not have any more capacity than the Thorfire or Liitokala“s (a little more than the 4500mah Basens but not much) & do not have lower IR than any of them.
At the price they cost me, $5 a piece I am happy with the Thorfires, but if you really need protected cells then they are obviously not the cells for you.
If you could live with non protected cells then the non protected Liitokala 5000 mah at about $5 a piece have got rave reviews on this forum & would seem to offer the best “bang for buck” at the moment & would also seem to offer higher drain than other 26650“s available at the moment.

Ian

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9908
Location: Charente France

If they call PTC protection but are vague if the parts we consider to make a cell a protected one are installed and now confirmed have not on these tested cells I personally think that is not good.

I will email Barry about this topic and strongly recommend him to have Thorfire give an explanation here. He probably won’t read it till Monday though.

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

The Miller wrote:
If they call PTC protection but are vague if the parts we consider to make a cell a protected one are installed and now confirmed have not on these tested cells I personally think that is not good.

I will email Barry about this topic and strongly recommend him to have Thorfire give an explanation here. He probably won’t read it till Monday though.


+1

For those who plan to use 26650 batteries in series, like the Convoy L6, battery length and and the positive terminal being a correct height is an important consideration too.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9908
Location: Charente France

Barry already responded.
The information will be corrected soon was his reply
So I asked him if Thorfire could explain here in this topic about the cells.

light-wolff
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 16:16
Posts: 219
Location: Germany

Discharge curves of Thorfire 26650 5000mAh:

Tracking of the 2 samples is not good.
.
The relatively sharp cutoff at 10A and 15A ist most probably a PTC kicking in. It is for sure not caused by an electronic protection circuit board(PCB).
The higher the cell temperature, the faster this cutoff occurs.
Details of cutoff at 15A with warmed-up cell #2, about half-discharged:

PTC kicks in after 17 seconds. However, due to its nature, it just limits the current to some A, but does not switch off. It is the electronic load that stops (it is programmed to do so). If it wouldn’t, the battery would be deep-discharged down to 0V.
.
The tested cells were purchased on amazon.de
Length is 66.7mm.
Photos of tested cells:

The wrapper states “Integrated battery overcharge / discharge protection circuits” even twice.
Hmm, if they call the PTC a discharge protection circuit, they may well call the CID (if present) an overcharge protection circuit.
Also note the funny writing of “High d ischarge p erformance …”. Even Thorfire’s own product photos show it.

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

Thank you light-wolff for the information, I found the comment: “…PTC kicks in after 17 seconds. However, due to its nature, it just limits the current to some A, but does not switch off. It is the electronic load that stops (it is programmed to do so). If it wouldn’t, the battery would be deep-discharged down to 0V.” to be telling.

We do make an assumption when the term ‘Protected Battery’ is used that we all share the same definition.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

kwarwick
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 09/06/2013 - 09:25
Posts: 193
Location: Canada
sidecross wrote:
We do make an assumption when the term ‘Protected Battery’ is used that we all share the same definition.

And rightfully so I’d say. This is blatant misrepresentation on the part of Thorfire as far as I’m concerned. I bought a set of these batteries for my L6 based on them being protected so I’m none too impressed to be lied to.

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America
kwarwick wrote:
And rightfully so I’d say. This is blatant misrepresentation on the part of Thorfire as far as I’m concerned. I bought a set of these batteries for my L6 based on them being protected so I’m none too impressed to be lied to.

Language is a slippery slope and has an ability to misinform as well as inform.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

202bigmike
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2014 - 12:09
Posts: 896
Location: USA

Oh yeah ! The TRUTH IS OUT !! WTF ! This is really a rat piss poor , deceptive ass sale practice by ThorFire ,

done to all who have purchased these cells under the totally misleading text of their sales ads. The ads were,

disguised as being very informative , while putting customers to sleep about their lack of real protection .

Does anyone think , that ALL who have purchased these cells , should seek a TOTAL refund from ThorFire

for its’ deviant and abhorrent sales practices regarding the cell protection !—In other words: Straight lies & BS !

P.S.,
Does the ThorFire sales practice only apply to their 26650 cells or does it also have a “blanket” effect covering
all of their goods—-Hmmmmm Question

jescereal
jescereal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 04/26/2015 - 11:28
Posts: 409
Location: Kansas

Hmm… Let’s not go nuclear here. Sad None of the drama nonsense. All situations must be approached wisely.

202bigmike
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2014 - 12:09
Posts: 896
Location: USA
jescereal wrote:
Hmm… Let’s not go nuclear here. Sad None of the drama nonsense. All situations must be approached wisely.

Nonsense & Drama is in the eye of the beholder !—What would you do , if you learned that you had been hoodwinked , conned , deceived ,
lied to and your $ taken by fraudulent practices ? Since you stepped up ,what is your wise approach to this situation ?

P.S.,
Not nuclear , ok. Just a little carpet bombing then ! Silly

bella-headlight
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/10/2016 - 16:17
Posts: 1180
Location: United Kingdom

Just to say that my cells are flat tops & not button tops as shown in l-w“s pictures ?

Ian

Speed4goal
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 06/11/2016 - 13:03
Posts: 1204
Location: Bay, St. Louis Mississippi

I feel if people wish for refunds that’s not unreasonable. But for what’s it worth the cells do perform as advertised they handle 10amps and how many people here are actually running these cells in a light who doesn’t have low voltage cut off? This isn’t a smart Ass question I’m truly curious. What lights are sold today or the past few years that don’t have low voltage cut off? Or a flash or step down of light output. Yes it’s blatant lie about having a pcb. I still feel I got my money’s worth out of the cells I purchased. I would still purchase them again for the right price. It’s hard to beat the liito cell price currently. The cells power my l6 and s70 with no issues and charge up past 5000mah and charge equally usually less than 60mah apart when done charging. Same with my unprotected evva batteries from Richard. The base cell is a decent one and true mah rating. Not saying this makes the false advertising correct. Just that it’s not the same as being told 5000mah and really is 2000. If I am to be deceived I’d rather it be with a protection circuits then actual capacity or amp ratings. That’s just my opinion though. It’s best to have clear transparency but that’s not really the world we live in. Not every country shares the same business practices hell even American companies will straight up burn you. There is hundreds of millions of dollars a year in this lithium battery industry. Maybe even billions a year. Every company wants a piece of the pie. This won’t be the only time nor has it been a cell isn’t as advertised completely. But thorfire seems to be a lot better then most of the other Chinese vendors. Like there s70 is well documented underrated at 3k lumens. Some have 4k right out the box. And with these batteries at 3.0 volts I get 5200mah roughly so down to 2.5 would probably yield roughly 5500-5600 mah. I’m interested to see how thorfire responds to this. But in the mean time if anyone feels these batteries are no longer safe. I will gladly accept them off your hands and pay the shipping cost. I’ll make great use of them. Just let me know if they were paired at birth or ran single. But if anyone knows the answer I’m curious how many 26650 lights in the past few years have been sold without some low voltage warning? Even my $3 sipik 98 clone has a low voltage indicator. So I’m really curious what the need for a protected battery is really needed for these days. Powerbanks have cut offs, vape units have cut offs besides mech mods. Flashlight a have cut offs even the cheapest ones. Even the 18650 powered fans I’ve seen have low voltage cut off, laptops, power tool packs Every thing has a cut off voltage in it. No protected batteries in any of them.

2/9 Fox Co (2009-2015) Semper Fi 0311/0331 Rifleman/Machine Gunner
Blf has changed a lot since I've been here. Lots of snow flakes and easily offended over nothing. When the forum use to be great and people joked around and could take a joke. It's a forum it's not that serious. Let's make BLF great again!

light-wolff
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 16:16
Posts: 219
Location: Germany

bella-headlight wrote:
Just to say that my cells are flat tops & not button tops as shown in l-w“s pictures ?

Interesting.
On the Thorfire and amazon images they aren’t exactly flat top, but don’t protrude as much as mine. And their vent holes are also smaller.
Here are mine:

What do yours look like?

bella-headlight
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/10/2016 - 16:17
Posts: 1180
Location: United Kingdom

Mine

Completely different positive ends to yours ?
Also my cells are also 66.6mm, the same as yours, but you a have a mm or 2 of positive button protruding whereas mine are flat tops.

Ian

light-wolff
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 16:16
Posts: 219
Location: Germany

bella-headlight wrote:
Mine
Completely different positive ends to yours ?

Apparently. And also completely different to the product photos. In side-view it looks a bit like yours has a ring around the button under the wrapper.

3 photos, 3 different tops. Maybe 3 different batteries. XxxxFire brand at its best.

bella-headlight
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/10/2016 - 16:17
Posts: 1180
Location: United Kingdom

“ In side-view it looks a bit like yours has a ring around the button under the wrapper.”
Yes it does & is one of the reasons I believed that my cells were protected (along with the email from Thorfire).
A 65mm flat top base cell with protection could be around 66.6mm couldn“t it ?
PCB“s can be around 1.5mm thick I think ?
Anyway whether my cells are protected or not does not really matter to me as I didn“t buy them because I needed protected cells.
For the $5 a cell I paid, they are the rated capacity, have low IR, & they perform fine in my lights that draw up to around 6.5A max.
They are nothing like the XXXFire 18650“s that can be reclaimed old used laptop cells, with far lower than claimed capacity & high IR.
Or are not even 18650 cells at all.
I can however understand how purchasers that actually wanted protected cells might feel if their cells are not protected.

Ian

LessDark
LessDark's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/22/2015 - 09:00
Posts: 52
Location: Norway

I must admit I’ve lost all faith I had for Thorfire, I’m sure they have some good products, but what else are they lying about?
I don’t trust them anymore…

Pages