Cree changed production process for XP-G2 emitters!

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grayski74
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djozz wrote:
I do not see the larger die size of the XP-G3 anywhere?

Your correct that is doesn’t state it outright..

I just said that it “looks like” has a larger die size..

With the current knowledge that the latest XP-G2’s seem to have larger die sizes (your own findings Smile ), and claim similar increases in Lumen/Watt, plus the wider viewing angle of the G3 (which admittedly might be a dome change) and the lower resistance and forward voltage, I would say current evidence suggests that they “look like” they will have larger die size..

We wont know for sure till we get some.. And I intend to get some, just in case they are great…

Waiting for someone to stock them. Smile

luminarium iaculator
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I would really like someone send XP-G3 to Djozz for testing… Pretty please Smile

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
I would really like someone send XP-G3 to Djozz for testing… Pretty please Smile

Dont throw too much hope in this m8, dont you see it has a XPE desing? The whole top is covered with a phosphorus: this automaticly means a bigger emitting angle, its clearly desinged for general lighting . Yet, we have to test it ofc…could be good enough

luminarium iaculator
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Mitko wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
I would really like someone send XP-G3 to Djozz for testing… Pretty please Smile

Dont throw too much hope in this m8, dont you see it has a XPE desing? The whole top is covered with a phosphorus: this automaticly means a bigger emitting angle, its clearly desinged for general lighting . Yet, we have to test it ofc…could be good enough

We all seen what they made from good old XP-G2 emitters (not just mentioned S4 2b from this thread, they messed them up in all bins) so can we expect something good from XP-G3?

Probably not…

I always thought that emitter throw performance should be improved in future by creation of new an innovative led emitters but the new trend is to make bigger phosphor layer emitters which will pump more lumens out of a dice… Pushing lumens and ignore lux performance?

Pushing lumens instead of lux? Maybe someone here may like it. But I am not one of them…

luminarium iaculator
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welight wrote:
Im checking with Cree on die size change and will advise Cheers Mark

Any news Mark? I saw you active in Xp-G3 thread so I really hope you did not forgot on this thread.

I think there would be a lot of interest in old production type of XP-G2 S4 2B…

Oldest date possible. You can easy spot the difference between them.

And check those shipping to Europe.

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Ordered all S3 bins from Mouser lately( K51, KE51, K51 and K53), they all came “improoved” ones….. definately not good for us:/

It would be great if an australian guy order some emitters from Cutter for evaluation, if they came out good we could arrange a group buy, at least the EU folks arround here, personaly i would buy at least 100 if they came one non improoved

luminarium iaculator
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I am also in for 100 of old production type of XP-G2 S4 2B!

P.S.

Mitko did you tried XP-G3 in well known host and how it act performance vise?

Mitko
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luminarium iaculator

Still waiting for the samples m8

About the S4 issue: Arrow Eurpoe has 5 bins S4 in stock( reets of 500pcs) – the problem is they dont offer samples from then, i cant even test …. one cant tell whats inside only from the part number( the production dates are 05-07 21015)

luminarium iaculator
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Can you tell them to take macro shot of just one emitter from that reel? Difference can be easily seen…

Good old G2 S4 2B

New production type xpg2s42b

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I’ll take 50 or more…

luminarium iaculator
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That is 250 pcs so far… Hope Mark is reading this Smile

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Hi luminarium,

All of the XPG2s I had up till now must have either been from the origonal type or I just didn’t notice the change. However I will throw my 2 cents in. This “upgrade” was not only done to XPG2s, but also to XML2s. Or at least “a” change was made. I never had any trouble with a change in tint, however the output from a single XML2 U4 bin dropped VERY significantly about 3 months ago due to a spike in the needed VF. I tested piles of LEDs from multiple sources to try and regain some ampers, but no luck.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44376

I probly would not have even noticed accept I test custom builds like my shorty Maglites before they go out on a regular basis. Out of all the XML2s I have used since then I have found only one that tested out the way nearly all of the ones I got off RMMs first reel last year did.

I just hope when XML3 lands we recover some of that nice low VF as most of my builds use a mosfet driver. Smile

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luminarium iaculator
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Vestureofblood,

Thanks for reporting. Your post goes in a first post of this thread as a warning that they probably changed production process for XML2’s

You are the man that works a lot with different emitters and especially mentioned XML2s and I worked with XP-G2 S4 2B exclusivity…

When differences are so big that we can actually visually spot it without lux meter and other stuff than we know something bad is happening there…

I hope Cree will make up for this mess with XPG3 or XML3 but if they will remain on new production process? I don’t know…

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Did some testing today with one XP-G2 from FastTech (unknown bin) and with these three XP-G2 S2-1A’s from Kaidomain (http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023026). Results are pretty disappointing, I was expecting much more, hoping that these leds from Kaidomain are from older batch. Testing was done with Samsung 30Q’s and Samsung 25R’s, both batteries delivered similar results. I wasn’t using any drivers, just direct drive trough 18 AWG wires. XP-G2 from FT is in my Brinyte 158 so I managed measured throw (194 kcd, 30 sec, 3,7m).

1. XP-G2 (cold tint, unknown, from FT) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,10A, VF 3,90V
2. XP-G2 (1) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 1,5A, VF 4,08V
3. XP-G2 (2) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,76A, VF 3,82V
4. XP-G2 (3) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,83A, VF3,80V

As you can see, results are all over the place with very high VF. For now I’ll wait for someone to test the new XP-G3 and make my decision on what to do with my Brinyte 158.

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I see a rise in 2 cell hosts and buck drivers coming…

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Cula wrote:
Did some testing today with one XP-G2 from FastTech (unknown bin) and with these three XP-G2 S2-1A’s from Kaidomain (http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023026). Results are pretty disappointing, I was expecting much more, hoping that these leds from Kaidomain are from older batch. Testing was done with Samsung 30Q’s and Samsung 25R’s, both batteries delivered similar results. I wasn’t using any drivers, just direct drive trough 18 AWG wires. XP-G2 from FT is in my Brinyte 158 so I managed measured throw (194 kcd, 30 sec, 3,7m).

1. XP-G2 (cold tint, unknown, from FT) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,10A, VF 3,90V
2. XP-G2 (1) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 1,5A, VF 4,08V
3. XP-G2 (2) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,76A, VF 3,82V
4. XP-G2 (3) (Kaidomain) – Bat 4,21V, Max 3,83A, VF3,80V

As you can see, results are all over the place with very high VF. For now I’ll wait for someone to test the new XP-G3 and make my decision on what to do with my Brinyte 158.

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luminarium iaculator

There might be a hope in Samsung 3535 high binned emitters, i just got mu hands on some of those binned at 160lm per watt, and initial tests showed their cap could be removed easy Smile
Will check them asa i got home today

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Mitko wrote:
luminarium iaculator

*There might be a hope in Samsung 3535 high binned emitters, i just got mu hands on some of those binned at 160lm per watt, and initial tests showed their cap could be removed easy Smile
Will check them asa i got home today*

Please keep us updated… Fingers crossed…

Edit:
Maybe even LH351B?
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/led/lighting/component/high-power...

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Samsung’s product rendering certainly looks interesting. Nice smooth die and no weak bond wires

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Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

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FYI, a few weeks ago I checked LG HC35C1 led (=a few years old, the newest gen. is HC35C4, impossible to obtain for me) for hot dedoming and in petrol, in both methods the dome would not come off in one piece and bits of silicon remained over the die. The phosfor was pretty solid though, it allowed scraping off remaining bits of silicon with a toothpick,but not all, tiny bits were left on the die.

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Mitko wrote:
There might be a hope in Samsung 3535 high binned emitters, i just got mu hands on some of those binned at 160lm per watt, and initial tests showed their cap could be removed easy Smile Will check them asa i got home today

Any luck, Mitko?

Getting ready to build a new batch of lights and wish I could get my hands on some of the original XP-G2’s or something similar. If not, I might have to just use the XP-L HI.

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Well by default its something like S2, havent tested it in details with the dome on, it is capable of maitaining 4.5amps ( with a single battery and a fet dd driver), dedomes pretty clean though. unfortunately when dedomed it performance drops dramaticly, its like 40% weaker than those upgraded new S4 emitters( 145kmcds vs 100kcds in a C8 host)…excuse me, but even a dedomed XPE2 performs better

It has a potential, i am pretty sure Samsung will develope those in future but for now those aint suitable for out throwing needs Smile

Quote:
If not, I might have to just use the XP-L HI.

Better not, try dedomed V6 instead, it outperforms any HI by 25-30%, or even a dedomed U3

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Mitko wrote:
Better not, try dedomed V6 instead, it outperforms any HI by 25-30%, or even a dedomed U3

Just curious, have you noticed real-world difference in your builds? I understand that V6 should out-perform the current highest binned HI’s (V2 or V3?), but dedoming is going to reduce overall output of the V6, no?

After reading through this thread, I came away with the impression that there’s no real advantage to dedoming a XP-L (as opposed to using a XP-L HI)

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Ofc i did m8 especialy considering throw, those builds are mainly used in a real world situations, mainly hunting: many of them, in lotsa different hosts

The mentioned thread is old, just a build that i made today: actualy those were 2 flashlights: both in B158host, one with XPL HI ( v2 3b)one with a dedomed V6 1A, the first gave 170k mcds( at 5.5amps), the second 215k( at 5.6amps)- the reason i made the first one with XPL HI is that fella hunter will swap the pill inside randomly with another pill( ir based) so i presumed HI in that situation would be better, he could simply damage the dedomed emitter occasionaly

Try out V6 1A from MNT or KD , they dedome pretty okay( not like V6 2D or V6 0d from FT) youll see yourself the difference, they “sing” paired with a nice fet dd driver and a 30q/vtc5 battery

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Good to know, thanks!

One of the lights I’m getting ready to build is a B158 with the new FET+1 from MTN and a 30Q. Also putting together some UF-1504s with similar components. How’re you liking the B158?

And how do you prefer to dedome – hot or gas/petrol?

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Reposted here from my sales thread.  

--------------------

OK, here are the results:

"Old" XP-G2

3.87 vF @ 3.9A

"New" XP-G2

3.78v vF @ 3.9A

I tested two samples of each, and they are both within 0.1v of each other. I see that much variation or more from different emitters from the same piece of tape.  I also only tested at 3.9A, so things may be much different at higher of lower amps.

I am not kidding when I say that this does not look green to me.  It really doesn't.  The bare LED doesn't, and I put a lens up to it and shined it on the wall and it doesn't look green.  I asked Lisa and a friend that is here today if they thought one looked different than the other (not knowing which one was the new or old) and they couldn't really tell.  

Here is a macro shot of the new and old (note that there is some perspective shift):

New

Old

Even despite the perspective shift (there is some) you can tell that the die size is slightly different.  

So, for the small sample size (only 2 emitters from 2 batches):

  • Green hulk dedome:  BUSTED
  • Higher vF:  BUSTED
  • Bigger die size:  VERIFIED

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luminarium iaculator
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Thanks for the test but I am not sure what you want to tell with it?

Are you actually want to tell that new XP-G2 is good in your opinion? Smile

It seems like you put some kind of lacquer on dedomed emitters (that kind of treatment leads to bit cooler tint) Vinz(famos German modder) called that treatment “diamond treatment”.

So RMM… You claim that new XP-G2 is not green when de domed? I just wish to know if anyone here on BLF agrees with you on that?

IMHO it has greenest beam projection I ever seen In my life.

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Well i have to argee with RMM, i got 20 of those in here, dedomed like 4 of them( chemicaly, i an hot gas)
Made that photo especialy for that topic

From the left to right:
First is default Olight M3X, the second is C8 ( Ar IOS glass, the new XPG2), third is again C8 ( AR IOS glass, dedomed V6 0D), the last is default M2x( dedomed V6 1a)

Its maybe your overstayed in the gas m8.

Even if they have greenish tint it aint an issue for me, its even good for hunting, ovserving at nights on a long term base

The problem like RMM said is the bigger core and higher vF

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Well, I am not going to say that it is as good as the old one.  Even if the lumens are the same, if the die is bigger the intensity will be slightly less.  I just don't think that the sky is falling and I definitely didn't get the green dedomed tint that everyone is talking about.  But we really don't know if we are talking about the same batch, do we?  Nope, so it really is just another data point and doesn't mean that it covers all emitters.  

I don't use gas.  Gas definitely makes more emitters turn green than anything else I've seen.  It's heat and a knife.  You can do with them what you want, but don't dump chemicals all over the phosphor then get mad when the tint shifts.  

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