Q8, PMS SEND TO THOSE WITH ISSUES BLF soda can light

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GTsuperheros
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Aloha, Put me down for one please.
Mahalo

djozz
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Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Just thinking out loud for the mini one if such a thing becomes reality. Personally I still favour 3×18500. However if it was to stick to 4 batteries. What would offer the best performance:

4P Li-ion – 4×14500. You’d get about 2800mah and 4.2v

Or

4S NiMh – 4xAA Eneloop. You’d have 2000-2500mah 4.8v+

I’ve not worked out the wh but they must be pretty close. If you wanted to run 3amp draw+ which would stand up to it better?

I honestly don’t see the appeal in a 4×14500 light. I’d rather a single 18650 light as it’ll out perform it and be smaller. But a 4xAA one would appeal.


Agree!

The reason NiMh’s are not often used in (chinese) flashlights is because of the somewhat lower energy density, but mainly their 1.2V nominal voltage requires power-limiting boosting or running at least 4 in series. Our proposed mini-SRK has 4 cells by design idea, so the use of NiMh cells is automatically a consideration.
And then the advantage of NiMh comes in sight: it is safe, well-known to the public, very available, alkalines can be used as back-up. But IMO another main advantage is power capability: good NiMh cells have very low internal resistance and allow high currents just like that. 4 cells in series have enough overhead voltage to deliver a triple or quad well over 10A even when using the relatively higher voltage Cree leds. I have not seen a NiMh-powered triple or quad (anyone know one?), but if well build (especially the battery carrier, there’s many spring connections there, steel springs are not an option) the output must be quite impressive, 2000 lumen should easily be achievable.

zara
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Interested!

strango
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djozz wrote:
Chicken Drumstick wrote:

4P Li-ion – 4×14500. You’d get about 2800mah and 4.2v
Or
4S NiMh – 4xAA Eneloop. You’d have 2000-2500mah 4.8v+

I honestly don’t see the appeal in a 4×14500 light. I’d rather a single 18650 light as it’ll out perform it and be smaller. But a 4xAA one would appeal.


Our proposed mini-SRK has 4 cells by design idea, so the use of NiMh cells is automatically a consideration.

I see no one reasonable idea except just Feng Shui design (4 led => 4 cells) why we should stick to 4*14500 or 4*AA instead of 1*26650
26650: cheaper, more capacity, more Amps.
NiCd(NiMn) afair is sensitive to working mode – it should be dis(charged) in full to avoid memory effect. And you can’t use 1-2-3*AA configuration.
The Miller
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PLease let us focus on the Q8 for now,
.
.
.
.
.
Must restist temptation to jump in
MUST RESIST TALING ABOUT THE SMALLER VERSION
CAN I?
Yes
the urge can be controlled
I do have self restrain
just press save now!
Wink

Wrathbringer27
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What’s the proposed led in there? Could we have the new 219C? Or Shaved XHP70 or shaved MT-G2? But I really would like the XHP35

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so can bones.

Eivwer
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I’m interested!

h2o
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in

The Miller
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Right now we lean to XPL Hi in two tints for easy of manufacturing. We will ask of the 219C can be a third choice.
We are looking into the new Cree that started a few topics yesterday.

The XHP or MTG2 will be modding projects from you guys who want to.
Do know the integrated shelf, the square threading and overall quality and features should be making this a worthy light for modding.

strango
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Wrathbringer27 wrote:
What’s the proposed led in there? Could we have the new 219C? Or Shaved XHP70 or shaved MT-G2? But I really would like the XHP35

The same for me.
3*xhp35 would cost almost the same as 4*xp-l hi. It provides more efficiency per Wt and imo more possibilites for modding.
But we need boost driver for 4p cells

Btw what about the beamshots, does hotspot shape look good for 4*led reflectors comparing with 3*led reflectors ?

djozz
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In the 70CRI 219C sales thread from RMM I did a small output calculation comparing the 219C to a similar tint and CRI XP-L Hi at 5A, and qua output the XP-L Hi wins by a margin.

In a direct drive situation the situation is different and could be as follows:
depending on flashlight resistances and type of battery, because of its very low Vf the 219C will draw more amps than the XP-L Hi, then at the cost of more power and heat the output of the 219C’s could still come close to the output of XP-L Hi’s.

Consideration for 219C could be the lowVf, tint, and price, but it will probably not have the best output and runtime, and it will run the flashlight hotter.

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Yes Djozz is right to the point here. We are considering the new Cree but for now the XP-L HI is the winner and aim.

We are aiming at making the Q8 accept the current SRK reflectors.
Meaning one could mod it into a light using anywhere from 3 to 10 emitters.

I am going to BOLD some specs in the OP that are set like the 4 parallel cell configuration and XP footprint for LEDs to avoid confusion and having to repeat the need for modding oneself if XHPs are wanted every page of this thread Wink

strango
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What is the typical CRI for XP-L Hi we are going to use?

djozz
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strango wrote:
What is the typical CRI for XP-L Hi we are going to use?

70CRI.

80CRI or higher has not been achieved in a group buy, probably because they are difficult to source in China. Intl-outdoor and Mtn-electronics every now and then have limited batches of nice 80CRI leds, but once they sell out the same type does not come back. I have not spotted 80CRI XP-L Hi’s yet, apart from 3000K ones that are 80CRI by default.

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Still don’t know that much about different LEDs etc.
But I’m hoping that the heat dissipation will be enough to keep the light on high/turbo for “some time” and not just 30 seconds and then drop to “too low”.

"To try is the first step towards failure."
Homer Simpson

djozz
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Pegaso wrote:
Still don’t know that much about different LEDs etc.
But I’m hoping that the heat dissipation will be enough to keep the light on high/turbo for “some time” and not just 30 seconds and then drop to “too low”.

If we manage to achieve a proper direct drive on all 4 leds, the flashlight will get hot fast, but (even relatively) there will be more mass and surface area as a tube-style 18650 light (such as the BLF-A6), so my estimation is that the light can run on turbo a bit longer, say at least two minutes. It is something that has to be determined in the prototypes but this being a BLF-special I’m sure we will not be too shy on that. Smile
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djozz wrote:
Pegaso wrote:
Still don’t know that much about different LEDs etc. But I’m hoping that the heat dissipation will be enough to keep the light on high/turbo for “some time” and not just 30 seconds and then drop to “too low”.
If we manage to achieve a proper direct drive on all 4 leds, the flashlight will get hot fast, but (even relatively) there will be more mass and surface area as a tube-style 18650 light (such as the BLF-A6), so my estimation is that the light can run on turbo a bit longer, say at least two minutes. It is something that has to be determined in the prototypes but this being a BLF-special I’m sure we will not be too shy on that. Smile

Thanks!
Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

"To try is the first step towards failure."
Homer Simpson

zak.wilson
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I’d definitely be interested in this if it comes with the 219C R8000 D280 like the ones Mountain Electronics sells. I’m less interested if I have to add those myself, but could still talk myself in to it.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

strango
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btw where are we with this project ?
are we waiting for manufacturer reply or there is still smth we can discuss internally?

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Are the xp-g3’s out yet?

BLF Community Battery Pull Thread http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32720

djozz
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strango wrote:
btw where are we with this project ?
are we waiting for manufacturer reply or there is still smth we can discuss internally?

LOL, we are a full nine days underway in this group buy, in which a flashlight will be completely or partly new designed. The last two group buys that involved (re)designing flashlights (BLF-A6 and the X6/X5 lights) took more than a year before the lights were finally for sale.

So yes, there’s ample room for discussion! Smile

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Please count me in for 1 Smile

Current lights: Convoy C8, TangsFire C8, EagleEye X6 BLF-SE

djozz
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downlinx wrote:
Are the xp-g3’s out yet?

Not sure, they are for sale at Cutter, I bought some for testing, but I doubt that they already have them. The performance should be close to the 70CRI Nichia 219C’s that Richard is selling now.

There could be two reasons to use the XP-G2 R3 in this light instead of XP-L Hi or Nichia 219C:
*they are dead cheap
*there’s 90CRI versions out there
I could imagine if the team/manufacturer decides on two led-options (which is certainly not yet decided upon), one could be cool white XP-L Hi, the other XP-G2 R3 4000K 90CRI. But then, sourcing specific leds has proven to be very difficult in the past for chinese companies.

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I’m so hyped! XPL HI is okai I guess but wouldn’t that make it more throwy?

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Count me in

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Wrathbringer27 wrote:
I’m so hyped! XPL HI is okai I guess but wouldn’t that make it more throwy?

Yes, it could potentially make it more throwy. But, the SRK style light is never going to be a thrower. On an imaginary scale of 1 to 100, if you arbitrarily call the SRK a 20 for throw, then a XP-L HI might make it a 22 at most. In other words, the difference is there, but it won’t magically transform a flooder to a thrower, or even come close. The difference is most notable in lights that are already designed for throw, where every tweak is being thrown in to maximize the final Kcd number.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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I do not agee, David. The difference in throw when going from XP-L to XP-L Hi will be the same for every type of light. It is just that in the SRK you go from a mega-big hotspot to a big hotspot. Has anyone done a direct throw-comparison (same host, same tint) between a XP-L and a XP-L HI? I would at least expect an increase of spot-intensity of 35%, there certainly is something to say for that!

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strango wrote:
btw where are we with this project ?

We have Barry from Thorfire and Neal from Banggood in our emailgroup.
We are discussing the actual light with Thorfire at the moment.

Primairy subprojects at the moment:
1 The driver
2 The software
3 The LEDs
4 The housing

1 and 2
Software and driver are intertwined, we will send Thorfire a list of ideal components for a driver that allows software with as much option we can think of and Tom E can program. Based on the talks we continue with this and Tom is going to programm features into the software that can be run on what we as Thorfire/Q-team decide is going to be used as components.

downlinx wrote:
Are the xp-g3’s out yet?

3 djozz, our LED expert has not have a chance to even hold these and no real tests are conducted.
So they are neither in nor out based on the lack of information and experience.

strango wrote:
are we waiting for manufacturer reply or there is still smth we can discuss internally?

4 housing
Today I want to make some basic sketches of the way the reflector should be fitted, ready to email to Barry tomorrow morning. Also pics and details of the current SRK reflectors are prepared to send to Thorfire.

Making the current SRK reflector fit provides modders the opportunity to mod the Q8 into a light capable of using 3 up to 10 emitters with reflectors available since reflectors are ind of hard to make yourself Wink

Since we are just starting yeah input is greatly appreciated!
Except maybe asking for cells in series and higher voltage LEDs, that has been covered several times and not the scope of this project.
The aim is making it a high quality light worthy of modding, so people can mod the XHPs etc. into it themselves and change the parallel setup into series as a mod.
So please read the OP for status quo and think along!

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Hmmm… the XP-L HI is a typical “thrower” LED with a very small die which gives a concentrated narrow beam in a SMO reflector … do we want that?
I mean this was supposed to be a “monster flooder” (see thread title) and now it seems it will be more of a thrower than a flooder. If this light generates a strong wide reaching beam and only little narrow flood i´m definitely out.

The normal XP-L with OP reflectors would probably be a better choice for a flooder?

Just thinkin´.
K.

strango
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Great. So if the discussion is still open there are few questions to clarify. 1)why we need xp-l HI if we are making flooder (as stated in thread title). Are here any cons comparing to non HI version? 2)afaik 3*led reflector provides less beam artifactes comparing to 4-5…led reflectors. is that correct ? (i’m not sure where I’ve read that, here on blf, on cpf or on fonarevka). “nichia option” is for hi cri or ?

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