FastTech Diving Light - Reputable?

25 posts / 0 new
Last post
LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21
FastTech Diving Light - Reputable?

Just found this:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10009855/1865307-ultrafire-wg-004-le...

What’s the general consensus with FastTech’s product descriptions? Will this light will be delivered as advertised (3 X XML-U2 LEDs driven at 2800mA?) I trust FastTech for my 18650 batteries. But just got burned with a similar form light via AliExpress. And the flashlight does have the dreaded “-Fire” suffix which is always a red flag Wink

Any advice or experience appreciated. Thanks!

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

Killforfood
Killforfood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: 02/16/2016 - 14:41
Posts: 351
Location: Left Coast USA

I have a similar singfire dive light and the lumens were highly over rated. I would expect the same from Ultrafire.

CPF to BLF Convert

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA

Are you actually going to use it for diving? If so the suspicion factor should go up about 10-20X.
First off the lumens are grossly exaggerated. I have a very decent canister light and it goes maybe 900 lumens on 2S2P 18650. No way you can get what is claimed for that light from 2S.
Then there is the whole issue of being actually waterproof. How do you determine that? I can guarantee you Fastech has not done anything to validate the lumens or the waterproofness. They just sell them.
Could be an OK light. Could be crap. Doubt if anyone on this forum knows for sure. Most of the folks aren’t divers. I have a number of the cheap Chinese dive lights. After playing with them I end up not trusting them and don’t use them for serious dives. They simply aren’t made very well. Fine for a walk in the dark. Not fine for a dive in the dark.
You want a reliable dive light, buy a decent dive light.

Ah, I see, you are already screwing around with dive lights that are woefully below expectation. Have fun if it behooves ya. I don’t recommend it for diving.

atbglenn
atbglenn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 07/29/2011 - 12:04
Posts: 5767
Location: Long Island, New York

A diving light that’s rated at IPX8. Isn’t that good for around 6 feet?

Boycott Nike

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA

[snip]
IPX-8 means suitable for continuous immersion in depths over 1 metre. That’s quite different from IPX-7 which is dunkable up to 1 metre. AFAIK the IPX-8 tests are specified by the manufacturer so they can be appropriate to whatever is being tested. Eg: 12 hours at 30 metres might be sufficient for a diver’s flashlight or camera, but not enough for something desgined to be permanently submersed in extreme conditions. [snip]

I like the part that the specifics are via the manufacturer. Are Chinese IPX ratings the same as Chinese lumen and milliamp ratings? Wink

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

atbglenn – I think they mean IP68…

Hey there flydiver. Not using them for diving but they will be used underwater. I have a couple of lights that are this form, and I use them underwater – they are indeed waterproof. The LEDs I get with these torches have just been a crapshoot. So not really worried about the waterproof feature, more worried about the leds and drivers…

FastTech has been very reputable for me with my Panasonic 18650s. I trust them for that product. Just wondering if that trust can extend to their other products. Do you have direct experience with FastTech providing products with bad descriptions?

The lumens — they are claiming 3000 lm with 3 x XM-L2 U2 driven at 2800mA. Let’s assume they’re telling the truth about the LEDs and the driver – can you show me your math on what the lumens should be? Likely I don’t understand the specs, but I’m reading XM-L2 U2s give off 1119-1193 each at 3amps. What am I not understanding?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

RobertB
RobertB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: 12/18/2015 - 17:49
Posts: 3526
Location: USA, Michigan

OrcaTorch makes an awesome land flashlight. Very high quality. They specialize in dive lights, and I can only guess they are as well. Available on Amazon.

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA

What you are not understanding is that until proven otherwise those kind of specs cannot be trusted. You can’t even be sure they have XM-L2 U2 in them until you have one in your hand.
I do not have enough experience with FT to support or deny their claims. I do have enough experience with vendors of this type that I’m pretty leery of what they claim until proven, which is one of the main reasons I’m on this site.

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

Thanks flydiver. I understand that perfectly well. Just trying to establish if 3000lm is even possible with the “alleged” setup.

Let me ask my question another way – if I purchased a 3x XM-L2 U2s flow them to a triple board, and attached a 3amp driver — would this produce about 3000 lm? In other words – at a minimum, do the advertised specs and lm reasonably line up?

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

Killforfood
Killforfood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: 02/16/2016 - 14:41
Posts: 351
Location: Left Coast USA

Lumens guy,

You got me curious as to the actual lumens vs ridiculous claimed lumens of my Singfire dive light. I bought an Integrated sphere from Joshk and its a real hoot to be able to measure real lumens instead of just guesstimating.

SingFire SF-924 5-LED 3000lm

SingFire SF-924 5-LED 3000lm

I decided to compare it with a Convoy M1 that I just purchased.

Convoy M1 Cree XML U2 – 1B 7135 × 8 8 – Mode 960lm

Ceiling bounce test. Dive light is on the left, Convoy M1 is on the right. To my eye the M1 has more pleasant neutral color vs the Singfire’s cold purplish tint. The M1 looks brighter to me but lets see what the sphere says.

Raw data for the Convoy M1 140,900 lux calculates out to 831 lumens. The Convoy is advertised as 960 lumens.

Well to my surprise the Singfire is actually brighter than the Convoy M1. 156,300 lux calculates out to 922 lumens. BUT how does that compare to the advertised lumens? 922 vs 3,000 PATHETIC! Only 184 lumens per emitter.

I tried to take mine apart to mod it but it became quickly apparent that I would destroy the light in the process.
I hope your outcome is better.

CPF to BLF Convert

Killforfood
Killforfood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: 02/16/2016 - 14:41
Posts: 351
Location: Left Coast USA

I’m adding a couple photos to explain why the Singfire dive light is such a poor performer.
First a picture of a real Cree emitter in the Convoy M1.

Obviously this emitter in the Singfire is not a Cree emitter. Most likely Lattice Bright. You need to get the light apart to put decent Cree’s in there or its just not worth it but these dive lights are typically glued together and impossible to get apart.
I’m sure the other major component holding these lights back is the driver but I couldn’t even get mine apart to see what’s in there.

Maybe somebody has advice on how to break the glue bond. You’re going to need it.

CPF to BLF Convert

sedstar
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 6 days ago
Joined: 04/03/2013 - 18:23
Posts: 949
Location: East coast, united states...

to me? “water proof” means i can drop it in a mud puddle over night or over the weekend? and when i come back, it still works fine. To the chinese resellers? “completely water proof” means your dog can pee on it or you can spill coffe over it? and it probably wont quit working.

i bet to the chinese? “diving light” means “mud puddle overnight proof”….

With enough black coffee and cigarettes? all things are possible…

I am currently still shipping… REAL GENUINE CREE xp-g emitters, the classic… brace yourself? as low as 20 cents apiece!! Check out the SALES THREAD, everyone is happy… then PM me

SALES THREAD:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52528

if you are into reloading? this is my site… I inherited the remains of what was once arguably the best reloading site on the internet… its the “BLF” of reloading sites…

http://reloadbench.freeforums.net/

if you think night vision would be cool? It IS… this site i am a member of, and its basically the “BLF” of home made scratch-built digital night vision. They are at the leading forefront of advanced DIY for digital night vision, and thats gun mounted or handheld… builds rival and exceed commercial offerings…

http://nightvisionforumuk.com/

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA

Suggest you take a look at the FT link again, and read the [Discussions], especially the last
message.

Can’t help you with ‘is it possible?’ question. I’m a minimalist modder. As stated, each light has it’s own set of issues for modding. I’m not the least surprised at [killforfood]‘s experience with his light.

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

Hey guys. Thanks for all the feedback.

sedstar – these lights are honest and truly waterproof, at least to <6ft.

flydriver – thanks for the help. I’m hoping someone pops in who can answer my question about the tech specs that would get us to 3000lm!

This “form” or housing for this light seems to be everywhere. I’m wondering if a manufacturer is selling the housing, and different vendors are dropping in their own guts. The ones I have ordered all have different LEDs. I’m not sure just because a flashlight has this case it means the internals are all the same? Wonder if FastTech will take a good closeup pic of the LEDs Smile

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

Killforfood
Killforfood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: 02/16/2016 - 14:41
Posts: 351
Location: Left Coast USA

LumensGuy wrote:
Thanks flydiver. I understand that perfectly well. Just trying to establish if 3000lm is even possible with the “alleged” setup.

Let me ask my question another way – if I purchased a 3x XM-L2 U2s flow them to a triple board, and attached a 3amp driver — would this produce about 3000 lm? In other words – at a minimum, do the advertised specs and lm reasonably line up?

Sure it’s possible BUT I have never seen a dive light host offered by anybody so you’re back to how do you get the light open without destroying it. You would likely need to daughter board a driver onto the existing driver so as not to lose the magnetic slider switch capability. Is there room to daughter board? Don’t know. Of course I can almost guarantee that it will come with Lattice Brights flowed onto an aluminum MCPCB so you’ll also need a Direct Thermal Path MCPCB and some genuine Cree Emitters. If you find a way to get inside these lights be sure to post it. I’d like to know.

CPF to BLF Convert

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

I got to the pill on one of my other lights, check it out:

http://imgur.com/a/yRWwK

I think on this particular version the driver is soldered to the pill so I would just need to desolder.

If I did mod the guts, I think I would skip the magnetic switch, try to find a single mode driver and just use it as a twisty. Still trying to find what would be the right driver for the 3X setup. I found this one http://intl-outdoor.com/ld2c-3a-12-cell-circuit-board-p-732.html but still not clear if 3amps will give me about 3000lm on a triple CREE.

But… gosh it would be lot easier to just be able to buy one with the right stuff already in it!

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

With at least 25 % losses OTF you’ll probably need to run three LEDs at 4A each or more to get 3k OTF. With 2 imr cells in parallel that’s 6A per cell and definitely possible. The LEDs will need to be on dtp copper stars but those, the cells, and an fet driver would do the job.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA
Rufusbduck wrote:
With at least 25 % losses OTF you’ll probably need to run three LEDs at 4A each or more to get 3k OTF. With 2 imr cells in parallel that’s 6A per cell and definitely possible. The LEDs will need to be on dtp copper stars but those, the cells, and an fet driver would do the job.

Isn’t that like turbocharging a Ford Pinto to go 150mph? Wink
Sure it’s possible, but……..

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

Flydiver the XM-L2 U3 Leds are rated for 1193-1268 lumens each at 3 amps. Triple that is more than 3000 lumens. Why is this turbocharging? http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree

RufusBDuck – Ok. 2 × 18650s in the tube. Check.

Here’s our copper MCPCB

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_64...

So we have that. So now, if I run this 3 amp driver http://intl-outdoor.com/ld2c-3a-12-cell-circuit-board-p-732.html

Let’s assume 25% loss.

Low end for the LEDS are 1193 lm.
1193 * 3 = 3579
3575 less 25% = 2684

Does that give us about 2684 lumens? Is my math right? That’s not bad, pretty close to 3000, no?

Can you point me to the FET driver you have in mind for this?

Thanks for your patience with me, just trying to wrap my mind around this stuff!

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA

You missed the point. Methinks you are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Why bother? The light as a host would appear to need a LOT of modding to get what you want, and it doesn’t sound like the modding will be easy.
But, that’s my take on it. Go for it if you want to do it. I can be of no help at all. I don’t even want to wrap my mind around all that kind of stuff.

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

Flydiver – got it. You don’t think it’s a good idea. We disagree on the merits of this project.

Swapping out a driver and led star is by no means “a LOT” of modding. It’s ho-hum for many of the folks on this forum, which is why I’m asking for their expert help. I’m interested in how it can be done, and I think there’s alot of good discussion happening around the “go for it” camp.

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!

eebowler
eebowler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 08/13/2012 - 11:34
Posts: 1825
Location: Trinidad and Tobago GMT -4

lol flydiver. Smile I like your style.

Luumensguy: it may be possible to get higher lumens than stock but you may not get more than 1200. The driver type is specific and you might only be able to do a resistor mod to get a little higher output. I’m guessing that the stock output is 800ish lumens. I’m also guessing that the LEDs are lattisbright and not real Crees.

You may be able to use a different driver that requires a normal off/on switch and operate the flashlight by twisting/untwisting the tailcap however, that would increase wear and tare on O rings and maybe more significantly, cause pressure changes inside the light which would not help with water resistance.

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

flydiver
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2013 - 19:16
Posts: 1140
Location: Seattle, WA
eebowler wrote:
lol flydiver. Smile operate the flashlight by twisting/untwisting the tailcap however, that would increase wear and tare on O rings and maybe more significantly, cause pressure changes inside the light which would not help with water resistance.

I can help with that. Twist on/off is a very normal way to operate a dive light. Decent lube and that’s no problem. The minor pressure change that this creates, which is a very small increase, in no way should affect the water resistance. Compared to water pressure it’s less than trivial. If it can’t take that, it can’t even take dunking.

eebowler
eebowler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 08/13/2012 - 11:34
Posts: 1825
Location: Trinidad and Tobago GMT -4

Good point!

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

LumensGuy
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/01/2016 - 00:13
Posts: 21

Thanks again guys for your feedback.

Eebowler – I’m looking to replace the driver AND the LEDs, so no reason I can’t get the output I want.

And yes, looking to make it a twisty. I think the 1 mode driver would take care of that.

I'm so bright, they call me sunshine!