[2016-06-11] Crackdown on rudeness

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DavidEF
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
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A given post that many different users flag as Rude! will be automatically removed.

Having a warped mind, I see this automation as being potentially problematic.

If someone has evil intent to seriously damage this forum, he could create several false accounts, then go on a Rude! marking marathon through a lot of very useful posts, reviews, discussions, etc.

Your automatic deletion could destroy a lot of the forum.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what “automatically removed” means, but if it results in permanent deletion, that could be a problem.

I suggest instead of automatically deleting a Rude! post, just flag it for your review at a later time.


This scenario is already possible with the SPAM button. Has been for a long time. Yet, we don’t see it happening. We don’t generally attract the kind of members that would do such a thing as that. We did have an incident once where a large enough group of members independently marked a thread as SPAM and got it automatically shut down, when it wasn’t SPAM, and was even a long-time member. That was weird. But it isn’t even close to being typical here.

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jhalb wrote:

Yea, one problem I see is that you can no longer strongly disagree with someone. If you do, the person with whom you are disagreeing with and whoever shares their opinion are likely to “Rude” you. So I suggest going with the flow or risk the potential ill received side affects.

JamesB wrote:
If people start using the meter as a dislike of somebody’s else opinion, as a way to express their disagrement or antagonise other members this has the potential to do more harm than good.

Sharpie wrote:
Hmm, I’ve been getting one point per post, on this thread, recently.

Interesting.

I suppose I could start dishing them out too, but that would be petty.

will34 wrote:
This is why I did not comment on that thread, basically there were 2 or 3 general points of views and they were marking each other rude, how lame.

^These things.

Inability to tolerate another’s opinion is exactly what will ruin your own ability to speak.

AAAaaaaand so I’ve shifted to permanent lurker status.

and i wanted to post a review about my AceBeam K70, Yamaha Smax, etc. ive got a million things i’d like to show someone, to post here and review… maybe you could learn something? probably too rude for someone i’m sure

Edit to add: also, i marked this rude just in case someone else forgets to.

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DavidEF wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Quote:
A given post that many different users flag as Rude! will be automatically removed.

Having a warped mind, I see this automation as being potentially problematic.

If someone has evil intent to seriously damage this forum, he could create several false accounts, then go on a Rude! marking marathon through a lot of very useful posts, reviews, discussions, etc.

Your automatic deletion could destroy a lot of the forum.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what “automatically removed” means, but if it results in permanent deletion, that could be a problem.

I suggest instead of automatically deleting a Rude! post, just flag it for your review at a later time.


This scenario is already possible with the SPAM button. Has been for a long time. Yet, we don’t see it happening. We don’t generally attract the kind of members that would do such a thing as that. We did have an incident once where a large enough group of members independently marked a thread as SPAM and got it automatically shut down, when it wasn’t SPAM, and was even a long-time member. That was weird. But it isn’t even close to being typical here.

I haven’t commented on the Rude change as I feel neutral about it. Seems like a good idea. I would prefer if it Rude didn’t erase posts. Someone may post something some of us would really want to know, but others may hide it from us because they don’t want others to know it. Like Spam button, I would prefer if the button pushes were published. I just think with any type of power comes responsibility. So if someone is going to push a button, they should have a valid reason and be willing to justify it. I feel more strongly about Spam though because it can hide a whole thread and ban the targeted member.

A couple members had told me they had been auto banned like I was by the Spam button. I remember RaceR86 was one of them. I don’t recall the other. I agree it isn’t typical though.

Once it happened to me and I was aware of it, I did notice a small group of members that would pick on a new member from time to time. The taunting posts would result in the new member eventually posting something that could be conscrewed as against the rules and then they would get auto banned by Spam button clicks. The beauty of it was that the thread would disappear. So no member and no trail. I saw it happen a couple times during the night when activity was pretty low. That was why I raised so much hell about it back then. Since then, it appears that abusive spamming has stopped. At least I hope so. I’m not on much these days to really know.

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I think many of you are taking this whole thing too seriously.

1. If you have a high rude score, nobody else will know but you (and SB)
2. If you have a high rude score, look at those posts and see if you broke some rules or were actually rude.
3. If you did break rules/were rude, clean up your act!
4. If you feel you were totally in line and the Rude! marks were unwarranted, don’t sweat it! If you really were rude, sb will message you. If you really weren’t rude and the people who marked you as such are abusing the feature, sb will contact them.

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Sometimes it’s not.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
I think many of you are taking this whole thing too seriously.

3. If you did break rules/were rude, clean up your act!

this is what will be left of the forum:

264 wrote:
Enelooper wrote:
Don’t talk about whether Coke or Pepsi tastes better either.

I vote for Coke. Pepsi too sweet. Have to tolerate Pepsi with cheese burgers in Chicago though. Smile

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wdkingery wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
I think many of you are taking this whole thing too seriously.

3. If you did break rules/were rude, clean up your act!

this is what will be left of the forum:

264 wrote:
Enelooper wrote:
Don’t talk about whether Coke or Pepsi tastes better either.

I vote for Coke. Pepsi too sweet. Have to tolerate Pepsi with cheese burgers in Chicago though. Smile

Yeppers

Boycott Nike

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Well, no. You just have to follow sb’s rules. Read the rules if you need to, 90% of the forum already follow the rules 90% of the time, including you glenn. You broke a couple rules in a post, recognized it, and deleted the post. Done. Perfect. That’s the point.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
Well, no. You just have to follow sb’s rules. Read the rules if you need to, 90% of the forum already follow the rules 90% of the time, including you glenn. You broke a couple rules in a post, recognized it, and deleted the post. Done. Perfect. That’s the point.

I know buddy. I’m only human, and sometimes I get a bit emotional about certain topics which I won’t mention. I’ll do my best to avoid anything controversial from now on.

Boycott Nike

hank
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> only human

Better than the alternative:

Quote:
Parents are worried the Amazon Echo is conditioning their kids to be rude (Alice Truong)
Jim Reisert AD1C
Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:04:59 -0600
  • Quartz* June 09, 2016

Alexa will put up with just about anything. She has a remarkable tolerance
for annoying behavior, and she certainly doesn’t care if you forget your
please and thank yous.

… parents are still irked by their kids’ poor manners when interacting with
Alexa, the assistant that lives inside the Amazon Echo.

“I’ve found my kids pushing the virtual assistant further than they would
push a human. [Alexa] never says `That was rude’ ….

http://qz.com/701521/parents-are-worried-the-amazon-echo-is-conditioning...

Hat tip to: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/29.56.html

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what “automatically removed” means, but if it results in permanent deletion, that could be a problem.

Hi there, it’s not permanent.

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wdkingery wrote:
jhalb wrote:

Yea, one problem I see is that you can no longer strongly disagree with someone. If you do, the person with whom you are disagreeing with and whoever shares their opinion are likely to “Rude” you. So I suggest going with the flow or risk the potential ill received side affects.

JamesB wrote:
If people start using the meter as a dislike of somebody’s else opinion, as a way to express their disagrement or antagonise other members this has the potential to do more harm than good.

Sharpie wrote:
Hmm, I’ve been getting one point per post, on this thread, recently.

Interesting.

I suppose I could start dishing them out too, but that would be petty.

will34 wrote:
This is why I did not comment on that thread, basically there were 2 or 3 general points of views and they were marking each other rude, how lame.

^These things.

Inability to tolerate another’s opinion is exactly what will ruin your own ability to speak.


As was already mentioned, it’s already been possible to misuse the spam button with the same intentions, with the added risk of an automated account ban. It just hasn’t been a major problem thus far. (The case where a long-time respected member was temporarily banned was used to refine the system so that can’t happen any more, in the case of the spam button.) So far, almost all of the “Rude!” button clicks seem legitimate (apart from users testing it), used on posts that really did have the potential to or already were sparking arguments. The majority of the flagged posts still remain visible, and there is no evidence of manipulation.

With that being said, just as has always been the case with the spam button, any attempts to manipulate or “game” the system are easily traceable and will very likely result in a permanent ban.

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And one other detail: Please don’t use the “Rude!” button on obvious spam posts. Instead, only use the spam button for that purpose, just as you’ve always done.

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sb56637: Can you put an option to hide the rude meter until it increases to a certain number? I don’t like seeing the “My Rudeness Level” every time I scroll down. I don’t intend to be rude, controversial, or attack anyone at a personal level, so I don’t need the constant presence of a rude meter to remind me (or nag me) to not be rude.

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A lot of worries have been expressed, but I’m not really worried about the rude button. It lets people know when they may have gone too far, in case that matters to them. And it lets Sb see more easily where problems most likely are, by letting the community vote on what is a problem. So, as usual, BLF’s problems will be dealt with — only more efficiently and with more community input, and people automatically get warned first.

It seems better than the alternative, where Sb’s daily load gets bigger and bigger and he’s expected to make decisions without much input from others.

Some interesting hypothetical problems have been brought up, but I prefer to prioritize issues which are actually happening over ones which aren’t.

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The only time I’ve used the spam button is for those first-time poster Kitchen sales people. That really annoys the crap out of me.

Boycott Nike

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kitchen sales are the best game on BLF! I’ve gotten 15+

Hey sb, how about a counter on how many kitchen sales ads we’ve hit “Spam” on before they disappeared? Party Party

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pilotdog68 wrote:
kitchen sales are the best game on BLF! I’ve gotten 15+

Hey sb, how about a counter on how many kitchen sales ads we’ve hit “Spam” on before they disappeared? Party Party

I like it, I like it!

Boycott Nike

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Thanks a lot ToyKeeper for your pragmatism! Thumbs Up

Quote:
And it lets Sb see more easily where problems most likely are, by letting the community vote on what is a problem.

This is a big one for me. I don’t give other users moderator permissions here because it’s extremely hard for a moderator to be objective and fair 100% of the time. And as a matter of fact I don’t even entirely trust myself as a good moderator. Certain people and certain issues personally rub me the wrong way, and there are others that I would tend to view with much more leniency. But it’s not all about me, and the Rudeness Level will be a huge help as a quantifiable meter that I can take into account when I inevitably have to make hard moderation decisions.

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atbglenn wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
kitchen sales are the best game on BLF! I’ve gotten 15+

Hey sb, how about a counter on how many kitchen sales ads we’ve hit “Spam” on before they disappeared? Party Party

I like it, I like it!

Ughhhh tell me about it! Facepalm I don’t know how we got on their list as a target, but they’re enough to make a grown man cry.

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sb56637 wrote:
atbglenn wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
kitchen sales are the best game on BLF! I’ve gotten 15+

Hey sb, how about a counter on how many kitchen sales ads we’ve hit “Spam” on before they disappeared? Party Party

I like it, I like it!

Ughhhh tell me about it! Facepalm I don’t know how we got on their list as a target, but they’re enough to make a grown man cry.

I always wondered about that. At least they’re zapped quickly enough

Boycott Nike

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can wrote:
emarkd wrote:
MRsDNF wrote:
So its a lazy person button. Wink

Maybe, sorta, but it also would really cut down on clutter and “thread bloat”. Even when its positive stuff, who wants to log in just to read dozens of new “Thanks!” posts, or worse get email alerts for new thread activity only to find something useless to themselves? I don’t. Ain’t nobody got time fo dat. So I think most of us just don’t say thanks, because it doesn’t add to the conversation. And that’s kind of a shame. So for that reason, I personally also really see the appeal of a “Thanks!” button.

“Thread Bloat” Awsome.
So is it rude to always bump threads to the top and say little to nothing? For the last 6 months or so if I click on a recent posts thread it will most likely have a newish member posting pretty much “nothing” although occasionally posting something. Obviously, I am not talking about dbcustom . Now that is a man on a mission he is doing crazy stuff every day and posts some serious content.
So, is it ok to press the rude button when a member is like the loud person in the room? The person that likes to hear their own voice?

The threads you mention about new members saying nothing in my book is from the spammers. This wont be stopped.
As far as thread bloat goes stop the continued quoting of quoted posts to the point they cannot be read. a bit like how this post is going.
I agree with the ones that mentioned that it is better to give a personal thanks in writing rather than hit a button.

 

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EyeballFryer wrote:
sb56637: Can you put an option to hide the rude meter until it increases to a certain number? I don’t like seeing the “My Rudeness Level” every time I scroll down. I don’t intend to be rude, controversial, or attack anyone at a personal level, so I don’t need the constant presence of a rude meter to remind me (or nag me) to not be rude.

Unfortunately I don’t know how to achieve that on a technical level, my apologies. But I agree it was kind of a big ugly blob in the middle of the panel, so I added a “rudeness” label inside the meter and removed the big title.

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Thanks! Much better now…

hank
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Quote:
stop the continued quoting of quoted posts

If only (grin). Even using only partial quotes (with due respect for careful use of the ellipsis) would be wonderful.
But some aspirations are beyond the ability of mere humans to attain at least consistently …..

It’s like the religious war over top or bottom posting, there’s no accounting for personal preference.

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hank wrote:

It’s like the religious war over top or bottom posting, there’s no accounting for personal preference.

Ah, I didn’t realize that it’s become a religious war. That explains why just the other day I ran across a complaint about that on a technical mailing list, and I wondered what the big deal was.

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hank wrote:
Quote:
stop the continued quoting of quoted posts

If only (grin).

For those who don’t mind using a browser extension, you can paste this in to limit the maximum nesting level of quotes. Use the “import” feature in the “Stylish” extension.
@-moz-document domain("budgetlightforum.com") {
/* hide quotes deeper than 3 levels */
blockquote.quote-msg blockquote.quote-msg blockquote.quote-msg blockquote.quote-msg {
    display: none !important;
}
}

… or install the same thing from the userstyles site: https://userstyles.org/styles/124314/blf-limit-quote-depth-3

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sb56637 wrote:
Unfortunately I don’t know how to achieve that on a technical level, my apologies. But I agree it was kind of a big ugly blob in the middle of the panel, so I added a “rudeness” label inside the meter and removed the big title.

I think that’s an acceptable compromise. Can you change the text so that “rudeness” only appears once, such as “0/10 rudeness”?

sb56637
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EyeballFryer wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
Unfortunately I don’t know how to achieve that on a technical level, my apologies. But I agree it was kind of a big ugly blob in the middle of the panel, so I added a “rudeness” label inside the meter and removed the big title.

I think that’s an acceptable compromise. Can you change the text so that “rudeness” only appears once, such as “0/10 rudeness”?

I’ll have to mess around with the underlying code a bit (which I didn’t write), but that’s a possibility. Thanks!

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