[2016-06-11] Crackdown on rudeness

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ToyKeeper
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emarkd wrote:
I think swearing, especially online, is one of those areas that some folks are always going to be more comfortable with than others.

It’s something I have to remember not to do here. For a long time, I didn’t know which words were the “bad” ones, so I didn’t even realize when I said something wrong. Now I at least know which ones to avoid, but once in a while I forget. The words themselves don’t mean anything special to me, but I respect that different people are sensitive to different things.

Like, I know a guy who needs to leave for a while to cry any time he hears anything about Christopher Walken. I haven’t asked why; I just don’t talk about that when he’s around. And if we’re playing Cards Against Humanity, I’ll take that card out of the deck first. Oddest thing, really — all the terrible stuff in that game, and the thing he really can’t stand is a random movie star.

So, more or less the same as anywhere else, making sure one’s behavior is appropriate for the situation.

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atbglenn wrote:
Joshk wrote:

I think there’s an editing mistake, That’s not my quote. Can you fix it please?

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Joshk wrote:
atbglenn wrote:
Joshk wrote:

I think there’s an editing mistake, That’s not my quote. Can you fix it please?

I have no idea what just happened. I deleted my comment

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will34
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No matter what you say and how you say it someone will always get offended as long as it is a personal opinion. Sometimes I wish we had a “underground forum” like CPF, but then we might as well simply not use BLF to discuss those kind of things.

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Joshk wrote:
Yea a button opposite the Rude button is just going to justify rude behavior.

Anything which gets a lot of +1 and -1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media, polarizing people and getting them to fight instead of working together. Divisiveness is, unfortunately, rewarded in many situations, and it’s tearing people apart. Meanwhile, there is far less incentive to focus on the things people agree on, to focus on the obvious wins we can accomplish together.

Long but interesting article on the topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/

In any case, highly divisive posts are also a good reason for interference, such as locking a thread. It may not be rude, exactly, but if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.

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“Helpful” is my favorite metric. You can get a ‘like’ from being a jerk. You can get post-counts from being a jerk. You have to be nice to get a ‘helpful’.

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I swear like I breath, a sailor even, pretty much every other word. Well not really but some of you know what I mean.....Just can't do it in some places. I would prefer to, as I'm sure a lot of others would. I like swearing because it really gets the emotion conveyed.  Not that I'm an angry person, I'm sure that's not a prerequisite. I'm just a very descriptive person, yea that's it, I'm descriptive. I would use it a lot here if I could and really appreciate the boards that do allow it.

That's just me being truthful, not rude.tongue-out

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Rude isn’t just some blacklist of words. You can be rude without cussing. And you can sure as hell be polite and cuss at the same time Smile

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Post counts mean nothing to me. My thing is helping people when I can, and learning from others here. All of a sudden a thread came up called “Evil stupid people in the world. :(“, so I commented on an evil person who ruined hundreds of people’s lives. Yes I said some bad words because I wss upset. It’s the kind of language I’m used to in real life, and I’m sure most of you use the same language as I. This isn’t Leave It To Beaver. I don’t know, maybe I’m making a bigger deal out of this than it’s worth Sad

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I rather liked Leave it to Beaver Innocent

Petticoat Junction was just too risque Blushing

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

hank
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Earlier in the thread I noted:

Quote:
There’s no “backing away slowly with no response” button.

Ya know, tallying clicks on that sort of response might be useful as feedback, at that.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
I rather liked Leave it to Beaver Innocent

Petticoat Junction was just too risque Blushing

I have all the Leave it to Beaver’s on DVD Smile Same with The Munsters, Car 54, and others. I love those old shows.

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@atbglenn - Yep, its all about helping were you can here on BLF. Sometimes I see a simple question posted by a new user go unanswered for a long time. Anytime I come across a question that I can help with, I answer it. Just take the time and do it. I've learned quite a bit here and have amassed an obscene amount of flashlights and flashlight related items in the time I have been here. I have a lot of valuable knowledge that I love passing on.

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I’m just looking forward to seeing what BLF will be like after the new feature isn’t so new and shiny. It has only been 4 days, so we don’t really know yet what the results will be after everything is settled.

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atbglenn wrote:
So far I hate it

Then why are you still here? I think it’s rude you stick around and dog everyone about this. You violated all the rules except rude with one post, and ever since then you have been arguing it was not rude, so it was ok.
It’s a feature now. Please be nicer.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Joshk wrote:
Yea a button opposite the Rude button is just going to justify rude behavior.

Anything which gets a lot of +1 and -1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media, polarizing people and getting them to fight instead of working together. Divisiveness is, unfortunately, rewarded in many situations, and it’s tearing people apart. Meanwhile, there is far less incentive to focus on the things people agree on, to focus on the obvious wins we can accomplish together.

Long but interesting article on the topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/

In any case, highly divisive posts are also a good reason for interference, such as locking a thread. It may not be rude, exactly, but if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.


I very quickly skimmed your link, and i disagree
Divisiveness is not the problem, racism, sexism, abuse, elistism and religious “superiority” are the problems. As a society we don’t want to give up looking down on others and justify it with whatever sledge hammer we can come up with. Then we explain it and rationalize it away.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

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I'm fairly certain that the immediate impact, due to the new feature has been a total reduction in post count for the day. I you don't count this thread. Also, people will be thinking twice about what they are posting.

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jhalb wrote:

I’m fairly certain that the immediate impact, due to the new feature has been a total reduction in post count for the day. I you don’t count this thread. Also, people will be thinking twice about what they are posting.


this thread is popular as pie Big Smile
In the end this issue will disappear into ether, and life goes on

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

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One definition of (Rude), adjective

offensively impolite or ill-mannered.
"she had been rude to her boss"
synonyms: ill-mannered, bad-mannered, impolite, discourteous, uncivil, ill-behaved, unmannerly, mannerless; impertinent, insolent, impudent, disrespectful, cheeky; churlish, curt, brusque, brash, offhand, short, sharp; offensive, insulting, derogatory, disparaging, abusive; tactless, undiplomatic, uncomplimentary...

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The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Maybe the “My Rudeness Level” needs a different name, but I can’t think of a good one. Or maybe move the meter to somewhere in the Accounts section.

will34
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EyeballFryer wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Maybe the “My Rudeness Level” needs a different name, but I can’t think of a good one. Or maybe move the meter to somewhere in the Accounts section.

Agreed, for the past couple days the first thing I check when I enter BLF is the rudeness meter, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, like if I’m expecting to be judged. I think it should be hidden until certain points are reached.

emarkd
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Some of the most popular “forums” on the internet have system of varying feedback in place. Reddit is huge and relies heavily on community feedback. Social sites like Facebook or Instagram wouldn’t function without likes and….whatever Instagram has (hearts?). The rudeness meter is nothing but a simplified version of those things (although strictly speaking it does have a more negative focus). I think its a good change and thinking twice before posting, and maybe posting less edgy content overall, is probably a good change for us all.

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emarkd wrote:
Some of the most popular “forums” on the internet have system of varying feedback in place. Reddit is huge and relies heavily on community feedback. Social sites like Facebook or Instagram wouldn’t function without likes and….whatever Instagram has (hearts?). The rudeness meter is nothing but a simplified version of those things (although strictly speaking it does have a more negative focus). I think its a good change and thinking twice before posting, and maybe posting less edgy content overall, is probably a good change for us all.

Agreed. I think it’s already working by just appearing there. We may never know the number of sentences that are edited before even going live just to be more accepted.

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Quote:
if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Hm.

Could it first open the BLF Rules page, then ask for confirmation while there?

Heck, if we’re postulating the first-time c-less n-bies, “BLF Rules” could be read as simple self-congratulatory cheerleadinging, rather than a link to the site’s rules for posting.

[crowd noise] B! L! F! [lather rinse repeat]

No, I’m still joking here, put down that programmer.

People can figure this out, even on a first visit by someone new to the whole online thing.

They start online at around age 5 nowadays, don’t they?

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Bort wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Anything which gets a lot of +1 and -1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media… if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.

I very quickly skimmed your link, and i disagree
Divisiveness is not the problem, racism, sexism, abuse, elistism and religious “superiority” are the problems. As a society we don’t want to give up looking down on others and justify it with whatever sledge hammer we can come up with. Then we explain it and rationalize it away.

Oh, I don’t mean there is only one issue. There are many, and the ones you brought up are important too. Smile

They all have a tendency to build on each other though, and interact in complex ways. Avoiding certain topics, such as religion and politics, can be just as important as avoiding certain methods, such as “othering” people and escalating conflicts. BLF has rules about both “what” and “how”, since either one tends to cause problems.

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Sharpie wrote:
Hmm, I’ve been getting one point per post, on this thread, recently.

Interesting.

I suppose I could start dishing them out too, but that would be petty.

This is why this rudeness thing needs to end, and now. I have 13 at this moment. If I lose my account, I’d be upset because I like being here. But if I do, so be it. I have nothing against anyone here. But I think this new feature is going to cause problems amongst us members.

Boycott Nike

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atbglenn wrote:
Sharpie wrote:
atbglenn wrote:
Joshk wrote:
That thread was doomed from the beginning. It implicitly violated all the rules.

Agreed. It turned into what beverage do you like….Completely off topic. I played into it as well.

The beverage stuff was a concerted attempt to drown out the obvious violations, and needless controversy.

A pity you didn’t understand, yet bring up again into this thread. Why ?

(Please don’t reply).

I get it. But I don’t buy into political correctness like out current administration which will end up destroying America..

(more rude points coming)


Come on Glenn, SB has not been replaced with a forum hating robot, nothing has really changed except he made it easier to pinpoint problem posts with some community help. Destroying America by not approving of those who denigrate others is about as likely as cigarettes not causing cancer Facepalm

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

Bort
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Bort wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Anything which gets a lot of +1 and -1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media… if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.

I very quickly skimmed your link, and i disagree
Divisiveness is not the problem, racism, sexism, abuse, elistism and religious “superiority” are the problems. As a society we don’t want to give up looking down on others and justify it with whatever sledge hammer we can come up with. Then we explain it and rationalize it away.

Oh, I don’t mean there is only one issue. There are many, and the ones you brought up are important too. Smile

They all have a tendency to build on each other though, and interact in complex ways. Avoiding certain topics, such as religion and politics, can be just as important as avoiding certain methods, such as “othering” people and escalating conflicts. BLF has rules about both “what” and “how”, since either one tends to cause problems.


What i am basically saying is if people want to get along they can choose to. We have problems because they don’t and rationalize it away.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

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Sb had said that nothing would be done to anybody’s account automatically. I trust sb to be able to look at the data, read the posts, and determine if anything is really worth addressing. Like others have said, nothing’s really changed here except now have an easier reporting mechanism. I would hope that anybody abusing it woudl also be met with moderator action.

In other words, in sb we trust.

One last thought, to Glenn directly – I hang out on Reddit a bit. One of the first things new redditors have to learn is that the fastest way to get downvoted is to complain about downvotes. You’d be better off just not posting about your rudeness meter in any way because it just encourages a certain type of user to make it worse for you.

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will34 wrote:
EyeballFryer wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Agreed, for the past couple days the first thing I check when I enter BLF is the rudeness meter, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, like if I’m expecting to be judged. I think it should be hidden until certain points are reached.

We’re on the public internet. There are a lot more people watching than many of us probably realize. This isn’t really a personal conversation so much as a bunch of published articles.

So we’re all being judged, regardless of the new button and meter. It may be your mother who reads this, or the person hiring at a company you applied for, or a government agency, or even just a bunch of random strangers who like flashlights. We can’t really know who will read it, and should generally keep that in mind while posting.

There are lots of people silently reading everything we say here, judging but not saying anything, and it might be good to be reminded of that once in a while.

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