Test/Review of Sony US18650VTC6 3000mAh (Green)

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sidecross
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nfetterly wrote:
They have 523 right now, they had 200 more 12 hours ago.

I picked up a couple as I didn’t have any…. and it sounds like they will be very difficult to get.

With good free advertising here and other forums it is no wonder they will sell out.

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shadockan wrote:
Personally I do not think it stops.
One of the battery manufacturing companies on behalf of N.A.S.A. It is not easy to stop …………..

Personal opinion of course …….


Tesla will have on completion the world’s largest battery manufacturing plant near Reno, Nevada, and it will be in NASA’s own backyard.

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sidecross wrote:
nfetterly wrote:
They have 523 right now, they had 200 more 12 hours ago.

I picked up a couple as I didn’t have any…. and it sounds like they will be very difficult to get.

With good free advertising here and other forums it is no wonder they will sell out.

True!!! Down to 435! They had 714 When I bought mine last night @ 7pm! They should donate batteries to us for this FREE advertizing!

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sidecross wrote:
shadockan wrote:
Personally I do not think it stops.
One of the battery manufacturing companies on behalf of N.A.S.A. It is not easy to stop …………..

Personal opinion of course …….


Tesla will have on completion the world’s largest battery manufacturing plant near Reno, Nevada, and it will be in NASA’s own backyard.

Maybe it will bring american lithium battery prices down when its operational. If the Chinese can sell to the us in bulk at 1-2$ . maybe wishful thinking but hopefully it will make prices lower. I think its interesting no one has biiolt that plant sooner. Isn’t silver run nv or whatever it’s called the largest deposit of lithium salts in the world? Lithium only forms where volcano’s were st some point

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Illum now has the VTC6 in stock for $9 each, for those who didn’t rush to order from imrbatteries.com and paid more, (like I did Facepalm )

http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/18650-son...

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sidecross

I know for Tesla and its plans fella .
Just as Sony is a company that did not expect to leave the field after so much progress in 18650 .
The truth is that stated Older that will stop the manufacture of Li-Ion 18650 and will deal more with LiPO, but then we saw the VTC5A and now VTC6.

I wish not to stop to compete and naturally ….. best prices …………..

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shadockan wrote:
sidecross

I know for Tesla and its plans fella .
Just as Sony is a company that did not expect to leave the field after so much progress in 18650 .
The truth is that stated Older that will stop the manufacture of Li-Ion 18650 and will deal more with LiPO, but then we saw the VTC5A and now VTC6.

I wish not to stop to compete and naturally ….. best prices …………..


Thank you.

There will a big market for all battery technology in the future.

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will34 wrote:
Illum now has the VTC6 in stock for $9 each, for those who didn’t rush to order from imrbatteries.com and paid more, (like I did Facepalm )

http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/18650-son...

They got them on 8/26 and were gone last night on 8/30!!! Wink

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I charged up 4 VTC6's and tested in my BLF Q8 SRK cone prototype (k - nothing like the real thing, but using it for the driver/firmware and about the same output), and I got maybe marginally better amps and output than with VTC5's and 30Q BT's. Really can't judge them by this superficial test/compare though, but I'd say their in the league - that's for sure. Had them charge to about 4.21v, bout the same as the other cells I tested, but I did run the light for a good 30 secs before doing the test. Technically it's not head-to-head equal because of that. Usually in the first 30-60 secs at full charge of 4.20/4.22v, I see a drop in DD lights you can't recover. So there's potential of them marginally beating 30Q's.

Right now it's hard to justify cells marginally better for twice the price, but up to the buyer - look at the discharge curve for the currents you are interested in, and compare. They seem to align with the 30Q's, just a little higher voltage thru-out.

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Tom E wrote:

I charged up 4 VTC6’s and tested in my BLF Q8 SRK cone prototype (k – nothing like the real thing, but using it for the driver/firmware and about the same output), and I got maybe marginally better amps and output than with VTC5’s and 30Q BT’s. Really can’t judge them by this superficial test/compare though, but I’d say their in the league – that’s for sure. Had them charge to about 4.21v, bout the same as the other cells I tested, but I did run the light for a good 30 secs before doing the test. Technically it’s not head-to-head equal because of that. Usually in the first 30-60 secs at full charge of 4.20/4.22v, I see a drop in DD lights you can’t recover. So there’s potential of them marginally beating 30Q’s.


Right now it’s hard to justify cells marginally better for twice the price, but up to the buyer – look at the discharge curve for the currents you are interested in, and compare. They seem to align with the 30Q’s, just a little higher voltage thru-out.


+1

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In one aspect I am NOT impressed with these batteries at all. They have been used 5.5 months.

One has 40 cycles and the other 20 cycles. Once they have been below 3.70V for testing. Other than that they have NOT been below 3.8 Volts!

BOD: April 28,2016

Purchased: August 22,2016

One came off of the charger 4.20v,,,the other 4.19v. Eight hours later they were both 4.14v. When they were new, which was not long ago[!], the resting voltages would be 4.18/4.19v Five or Six days later.

I realize ALL batteries drop several Hundredths of a volt after resting. IMO these have dropped too low of a voltage/too quickly compared to ALL of my other batteries that are much older. If they were a few years old it would not concern me, but they are not.

AS FAR AS I KNOW THEY ARE GENUINE WITH ALL THE CORRECT MARKINGS. I BOUGHT THEM FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER.

Is this a sign of them DEGRADING too fast? I think it might be.

I have many batteries of all sizes that are b/w 1.5 and 3 years old whose resting voltages are higher after sitting for several days!

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I see this regularly, particularly with sony cells. They just don’t like maintaining 4.2V for some reason. They tend to drop down to around 4.15V or so and then maintain that for extended times.

This is not an issue IMO as there is only a very minor amount of capacity gained over 4.1V. Heck I generally only charge my cells to 4.15V. I hate using my VC4 that charges to 4.22V.

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Wolfdog , some chargers drain batteries if you don’t remove them after charging .

For example i have an Opus bt-c3100 v2.2 that charges batteries at 4.18V and if you let them for 8 hours they will drop 0.02 V more .

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giorgoskok wrote:
Wolfdog , some chargers drain batteries if you don’t remove them after charging .

For example i have an Opus bt-c3100 v2.2 that charges batteries at 4.18V and if you let them for 8 hours they will drop 0.02 V more .

I understand what your saying. However, I treat these batteries the same as all my others. Shortly after they are charged I remove them.

In regards to what Texas_Ace is saying about this is typical of Sony cells:

I just checked my VTC5 that has been idle for 5 days and the voltage is 4.16v. This cell will be 2 years old in May! My experience has been different w/ my other VTC4/5 Cells.

As long as they do not keep declining, I will not be concerned. However, every other battery[much older than this] that starts to degrade, the resting voltage gets lower and lower as time goes by!

To cap this off. I have 6 X Orbtronic 18650 3400mAh that I purchased on 12.21.2012!! They have had over 400 cycles and their resting voltage is 4.14v to 4.16V AFTER 2 OR 3 days!

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The typical capacity of VTC6 cells is 3120mAh. Maybe that's the reason they're 3000mAh (minimum capacity) rated. They deliver a hair over 3000mAh when discharged at 0.2A in HKJ's review of 'em.

 

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wolfdog1226In regards to what Texas_Ace is saying about this is typical of Sony cells:

I just checked my VTC5 that has been idle for 5 days and the voltage is 4.16v. This cell will be 2 years old in May! My experience has been different w/ my other VTC4/5 Cells.

As long as they do not keep declining, I will not be concerned. However, every other battery[much older than this

wrote:
that starts to degrade, the resting voltage gets lower and lower as time goes by!

To cap this off. I have 6 X Orbtronic 18650 3400mAh that I purchased on 12.21.2012!! They have had over 400 cycles and their resting voltage is 4.14v to 4.16V AFTER 2 OR 3 days!

So after 5 days it is at 4.16v?

Sounds perfectly fine to me. Mine do the same thing, like I said before they will drop from 4.2v down to somewhere around 4.12-4.16V and then they will maintain that for extended periods.

What do your cells look like after a few months?

Naturally they will drop some voltages over time by .01V a month is nothing to worry about. High drain cells tend to have higher self discharge rates from my experience.

Don’t worry about a voltage drop over the first few days, worry about it over the course of weeks/months.

If the voltage is down to 4V in say 1 month, then yeah, you have an issue. At the rate the voltage was dropping in the first few days the cells should be empty in a few weeks but I am going to go out on a limb and say that doesn’t happen.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
[quote=wolfdog1226In regards to what Texas_Ace is saying about this is typical of Sony cells:

I just checked my VTC5 that has been idle for 5 days and the voltage is 4.16v. This cell will be 2 years old in May! My experience has been different w/ my other VTC4/5 Cells.

As long as they do not keep declining, I will not be concerned. However, every other battery[much older than this] that starts to degrade, the resting voltage gets lower and lower as time goes by!

To cap this off. I have 6 X Orbtronic 18650 3400mAh that I purchased on 12.21.2012!! They have had over 400 cycles and their resting voltage is 4.14v to 4.16V AFTER 2 OR 3 days!

So after 5 days it is at 4.16v?

Sounds perfectly fine to me. Mine do the same thing, like I said before they will drop from 4.2v down to somewhere around 4.12-4.16V and then they will maintain that for extended periods.

What do your cells look like after a few months?

Naturally they will drop some voltages over time by .01V a month is nothing to worry about. High drain cells tend to have higher self discharge rates from my experience.

Don’t worry about a voltage drop over the first few days, worry about it over the course of weeks/months.

If the voltage is down to 4V in say 1 month, then yeah, you have an issue. At the rate the voltage was dropping in the first few days the cells should be empty in a few weeks but I am going to go out on a limb and say that doesn’t happen.[/quote]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My post,,,,,it did not quote properly!

I think you misunderstood some of my points.

The VTC5 was an example of another Sony battery. This was a compliment compared to the 5.5. month old VTC6!! Hence: VTC6 resting voltage @ 4.14v after only 8 hours versus a 21 month old VTC5 resting voltage of 4.16v after 5 days!

My experience has been different[positive] w/ my other VTC4/5 Cells than yours…which was:

“I see this regularly, particularly with sony cells. They just don’t like maintaining 4.2V for some reason. They tend to drop down to around 4.15V or so and then maintain that for extended times.”

The whole point is that these VTC6 batteries are having resting voltages lower than batteries that I have that are 5 or 6 times older.

Sure, what matters is how will they be 6, 9, 12 months from now?

All I am saying is that from my 5 years experience w/ L.ion batteries, when cells start to have a quick decline in resting voltage it usually continues and is a sign of further degradation.

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I bet that the VTC5 voltage dropped most of that voltage in the first day just like the VTC6.

I really think you are getting worked up over nothing. Let them sit for a few weeks then see what happens.

As I said before, it is quite common for sony cells in particular to drop down to 4.12-4.16V within the first 24 hours, it will then maintain that voltage for extended periods.

Something about the sony chemical mixture just doesn’t like being fully charged to 4.2V.

Unless the voltage keeps dropping there is nothing to worry about.

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You are right,time will tell.

The fact remains that the VTC6 are MUCH newer and their resting voltage has dropped lower at a much quicker rate than batteries that are more than 4, 5, 6 times their age.

If the resting voltage stays at 4.14V when they are 2 years old I will be happy and also shocked,,just my experience tells me that!

,,,,have a good day,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Cool

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I have sony cells that are 10+ years old and they also drop down to the voltages mentioned earlier (and REALLY hate being charged to 4.2V).

Yet they will still hold voltage fine at around 4.1-4.14V generally and only loose about .01v a month or a bit more but these cells are also VERY worn out and out of old laptop battery packs.

I don’t think you have a lot to worry about. If you really want to extend their life only charge them to 4.1V, this can double the lifespan of lithium cells with only a very minor effect on total capacity.

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i had full charged mine 1+ month ago ,tested today and they are 4,16v

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nofearek9 wrote:
i had full charged mine 1+ month ago ,tested today and they are 4,16v

Yep, same thing I see happen.

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I guess mine are different then! lol!

Mine were @ 4.14v AFTER just resting 8 HOURS and the cells are only 5.5. months old!

My whole point again is that they held their resting voltage @ 4.18/19V for the First 3+ months and in the last month or so they dropped to 4.14V within hours.

It is pretty simple what I am explaining, yet it is like beating a dead horse for a few of you guys to acknowledge it!!

This has not happened w/ any other Sony cells or any of my other cells so quickly.

So, if they are still holding 4.14v a year or so from now I will get back to you!

END OF STORY!

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nofearek9 wrote:
i had full charged mine 1+ month ago ,tested today and they are 4,16v

ok,,,How old are they? 4.16v a month later is certainly ACCEPTABLE.

4.14v, EIGHT hours later for relatively new batteries is not in my book!

Hey,,,,,,,just checked them. 22 hours later One is still at 4.14v and the other is @ 4.13v!

I would be willing to bet in a few months these batteries will have a resting voltage of 4.10 to 4.12v a few days after they are charged!

Also,keep in mind that these cells have only been cycled 20 times and 40 times respectively and NEVER been discharged below 3.70 volts and that was for a run time test.

All other discharges have been ~ 3.80v because I only use them 15 minutes before putting a fresh one in my M2Xvn!

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they are brand new,it was the second charge

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wolfdog1226 wrote:
Hey,,,,,,,just checked them. 22 hours later One is still at 4.14v and the other is @ 4.13v!

You basically proved my point here. The voltage drop is just stabilizing, otherwise it would have kept dropping over the next 16 hours and be at 4.0V by now but it is not.

The voltage should stabilize and then fall into a normal self-discharge pattern.

The first 8 hours of voltage drop is inconsequential. What matters is the first week voltage drop as I said before.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I am not in the least worried about it based on my own experiences with cony cells. I would only be worried if the voltage keeps dropping over the next week.

You don’t seem to read that it is normal for my Sony cells to drop to 4.12 – 4.16V within the first 24 hours and then maintain a normal self-discharge curve after that.

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I forgot about this[B CELLS]. This may be the reason because ALL my other Sony cells had a much higher resting voltage. The gentlemans thoughts below echo the same sentiment!

Here is a fellow member on CPF’s experience:

“Was thinking the same thing, he probably got “B” cells.”

“My VTC6’s come off the charger (VP2) at 4.2 then settle to 4.185 and stay there.”

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Texas_Ace wrote:
wolfdog1226 wrote:
Hey,,,,,,,just checked them. 22 hours later One is still at 4.14v and the other is @ 4.13v!

You basically proved my point here. The voltage drop is just stabilizing, otherwise it would have kept dropping over the next 16 hours and be at 4.0V by now but it is not.

The voltage should stabilize and then fall into a normal self-discharge pattern.

The first 8 hours of voltage drop is inconsequential. What matters is the first week voltage drop as I said before.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I am not in the least worried about it based on my own experiences with cony cells. I would only be worried if the voltage keeps dropping over the next week.

You don’t seem to read that it is normal for my Sony cells to drop to 4.12 – 4.16V within the first 24 hours and then maintain a normal self-discharge curve after that.

I read that several times!! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,and you don’t seem to read that ALL of my other Sony cells NEVER had a resting voltage of 4.14V when they were not even 6 months old and cycled an average of 30 times! The resting voltages for ALL of my other Sony batteries have averaged 4.18V even after resting a week!

There is a DIFFERENCE B/W stabilizing @ 4.14v and 4.18v for relatively NEW batteries!!!

My experience w/ SONY batteries have been DIFFERENT than your and vice versa! You keep telling me how it is normal to have a resting voltage of 4.14V for relatively new batteries. In my experience that has NOT been the case!!!

Bring in the “B STOCK” equation!! That seems like the most logical reason to me. VEN who joined here in the last few months explained it from what his Dealer told him!

“B STOCK” IS DISCUSSED STARTING IN POST #8 IN THE THREAD BELOW!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?421551-Test-Review-of...(Green)

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My point is that you keep acting like a .05v difference in voltage is something worth thinking about. That is about 1% of total capacity, you would not even notice a difference.

When it starts self-discharging at an unreasonable rate, then it is time to worry.

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^^^^^^^^^

And another one of my points is that you totally disregard that these are RELATIVELY NEW cells and OTHERS happen to share my belief and experience w/ L. ion CELLS!!!

HERE ARE 2 EXAMPLES!

1. Fresher cells, not beat upon, shouldn’t be at 4.14v after 8 hours on a good charger, is my thought on the matter.

2. My cells that are charged to near 4.2v tend to rest no lower then 4.18v(range of my cells).

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