When will we see first flashlight for the new 20700 cell type?

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stephenk
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I think it will be some time before the 20700s make their way outside of Tesla’s supply chain.

sidecross
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EasyB wrote:
First link is about “graphene batteries” and is surprisingly un informative. I have searched and not found any info about what this battery actually is. They do have very impressive claims. I would not believe them, however. Battery “breakthroughs” generally do not happen. There is incremental development and improvement. If this particular graphene battery technology was really promising, lots of labs and institutions would be developing it.

Second link is old, and about the development of a type of Li ion battery, LiFePO4, that A123 pioneered.

The cells that will be made at the gigafactory will very likely be traditional Li ion chemistry.


I found these in a provided link a week ago and it was new information to me.

From my meek understanding battery technology and developments are not made public, and in fact much of the new Tesla manufacturing information is being kept secret and proprietary.

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EasyB
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sidecross wrote:
EasyB wrote:
First link is about “graphene batteries” and is surprisingly un informative. I have searched and not found any info about what this battery actually is. They do have very impressive claims. I would not believe them, however. Battery “breakthroughs” generally do not happen. There is incremental development and improvement. If this particular graphene battery technology was really promising, lots of labs and institutions would be developing it.

Second link is old, and about the development of a type of Li ion battery, LiFePO4, that A123 pioneered.

The cells that will be made at the gigafactory will very likely be traditional Li ion chemistry.


I found these in a provided link a week ago and it was new information to me.

From my meek understanding battery technology and developments are not made public, and in fact much of the new Tesla manufacturing information is being kept secret and proprietary.

I may have confused the claims in that video with some other graphene battery claims I read somewhere else. The “G-king” battery in that first video is apparently an 18650 format cell with ~1200mAh capacity and 3.2V nominal voltage. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a LiFePO4 type Li ion chemistry with a bit of graphene in the one of the electrodes.

If you can’t tell, I’m a bit skeptical when companies use graphene’s “amazing properties” to market a product. Graphene has some interesting fundamental properties, but in my opinion mostly of academic rather than practical interest.

cncyana
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This site says “In stock”.

http://www.illumn.com/20700-sanyo-nc…-flat-top.html

20700 Sanyo NCR20700B High Discharge Flat Top

SKU:Sanyo NCR20700B

Availability: In Stock

$9.99

PRODUCT DETAILS

SANYO NCR20700B 4250 mAh High Discharge Flat Top

Specifications:
Nominal Capacity: 4000 mAh
Typical Capacity: 4250mAh
Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Standard Charging Current: 2A
Discharge End Voltage: 2.5V
Max Continuous Discharging Current: 12A
Weight (max): 63.0g

Dimensions:
70.3mm (L) x 20.35 mm (D)

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cncyana
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pilotdog68 wrote:
I don’t want 90% of the lights I own to become outdated because you are stuck with old battery tech.

The 18650 will remain so no worries there.

However, if we want to stick to the 18650, we won’t be able to take advantage of the new more powerful versions of flashlights that will use the 20700/21700.

In other words, we can look at our 18650 lights as ‘second-class’ and somewhat ‘older tech’ things.

No big deal, right?

So the question is: Can we flashlight enthusiasts live with that thought?

Possibly.

But for how long before we cave?

As for me, I’m definitely putting on-hold any purchases of lights (especially 26650 lights!) for now.

Life’s Questions/Answers here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Romans 14:12

mapache
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cncyana wrote:
This site says “In stock”.

http://www.illumn.com/20700-sanyo-nc…-flat-top.html

20700 Sanyo NCR20700B High Discharge Flat Top

SKU:Sanyo NCR20700B

Availability: In Stock

$9.99

PRODUCT DETAILS

SANYO NCR20700B 4250 mAh High Discharge Flat Top

Specifications:
Nominal Capacity: 4000 mAh
Typical Capacity: 4250mAh
Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Standard Charging Current: 2A
Discharge End Voltage: 2.5V
Max Continuous Discharging Current: 12A
Weight (max): 63.0g

Dimensions:
70.3mm (L) x 20.35 mm (D)

It is a Keeppower cell. Image is clickable for more info.

Bort
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cncyana wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
I don’t want 90% of the lights I own to become outdated because you are stuck with old battery tech.

The 18650 will remain so no worries there.

However, if we want to stick to the 18650, we won’t be able to take advantage of the new more powerful versions of flashlights that will use the 20700/21700.

In other words, we can look at our 18650 lights as ‘second-class’ and somewhat ‘older tech’ things.

No big deal, right?

So the question is: Can we flashlight enthusiasts live with that thought?

Possibly.

But for how long before we cave?

As for me, I’m definitely putting on-hold any purchases of lights (especially 26650 lights!) for now.


26650 is the perfect bridge light if 21700 is going to achieve global domination, adapters will be cheap and can be rather easily DIYed.

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Couchmaster
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It’s hereeeeeee:-) Not for us just yet. Less than 6 months from my 1 year prediction for the first 21700 battery to roll off the Tesla line. Yesterdays news (1/4/17) https://www.yahoo.com/tech/tesla-gigafactory-just-achieved-extremely-crucial-milestone-201213791.html

Quote:
Earlier today, following months of round-the-clock construction, Tesla began mass producing its long-touted higher-density battery cells that will ultimately find their way into Tesla’s mass market Model 3, not to mention Tesla’s growing lineup of energy storage products.

From 5 months ago:

Couchmaster wrote:
Tesla is spending craploads on R & D to increase the power of these cells. Given the rush to produce, they have most likely not incorporated even a part of the changes they are looking at in the lab into the finished product yet. Interesting times indeed, I’m looking forward to it. Musk quoted about the speed improvements based on the new battery packs from yesterdays BBC article: the cars “… hailed the upgraded battery as a profound milestone….will do 0-60mph in 2.5 seconds”

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37171455

Given the rush to production I think it’s possible we’ll see availability within a year. Hard to say as none of us know the production details of the battery’s. That means that 4-5 years might not be unreasonable either, but I doubt it will be that long. They have a bunch of pre-ordered cars they need to build first ASAP though.

Mkduffer
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For me personally, bigger isn’t always better. I currently EDC an 18650 light, but there’s no way I’d ever EDC a 26650. In fact, I’m even re-thinking whether or not I want to keep EDCing the 18650. More and more, I find myself looking instead at carrying one of many AA/14500 lights because of the size/weight benefits and availability of cells in an emergency. Then again, I’m the type that is still using a 3 yr old smart phone because it still suits my needs.

I guess only time will tell. 20700 is only marginally bigger so it probably won’t be much more of a burden and I suspect that when new lights come out, eventually they could support both 18650 and 20700. Still, for me the benefit would have to be quite substantial. For what i do, my 18650 (and AA/14500 for that matter) lights can sustain me for many days between recharges, so I wouldn’t be highly motivated to switch. That being said, I do own a few 26650 lights. I’m just stupid that way. Oops

People say I’m a flashaholic like it’s a bad thing…

techieman33
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I don’t see much of a benefit in these cells unless they make a big jump in capacity or power output. 18650 is already pushing the limits for comfortable EDC flashlight and I don’t think a 12% bump in capacity is worth the extra thickness. As it is I usually only charge my EDC once or twice a week. And I don’t know that extra power output will be that big of a benefit. The biggest thing we need are big leaps in LED tech to greatly improve the efficiency and reduce the heat output. Who care if we could have an EDCable 10k lumen light if it can’t run for more than 5 seconds before it burns your hands.

Tom E
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IMRBatteries.com has two types of the 20700 now - 30A 3100 mAh and a 15A 4000 mAh. Curious how the 3100 stacks up against the best VTC6

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