New Convoy C8 – Clearly better

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stephenk
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Adding to the above discussion, here is a photo of my three Convoy S2+ in (from left to right) 7A, 4C, and 1A tints (XM-L2).

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JasonWW wrote:
What we need is a cheap little device that can measure color temperature. Currently we just have to guess. One persons 5500k is another person’s 4500k. Even if you buy a certain temperature led, it can be off. It leads to a lot of confusion.

Hard, unless you integrate. My 4C S2+ has a yellowish hotspot, but bluish spill. Looks overly warm to me just looking at the hotspot, but in ceiling-bounce tests, it’s absolutely a beautiful CT/tint.

To me, most lights have hotspots that are warmer than what it says on the tin. Conversely, the spill parts are cooler. You’d need to blend/integrate the light for anything accurate.

Unless you want to measure the CT of, say, the hotspot only. Then, it’s easier.

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DB Custom wrote:
FWIW, I find a multi-stroboscopic effect (police strobe, say) in excess of 10,000 lumens difficult to stare into. Some, with their variable rates, even at 4000-6000 lumens can be hard to look straight at. But I can do it without feeling sick or whatever, it just hurts the cerebral cortex (or what’s left of it)

At 10,000 lumens, I don’t care if it’s strobing or not, it hurts to stare at. BTW, if you’re hand-holding that light and looking into it, it’s likely putting more lux on you than a noon-day sun. That might be doing damage to your retina.

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Apropriate color temperature for our night vision depens on lumens.
If we use flashlight low mode than warm tint like 4C or even 7A is better option.

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Tangra wrote:
If we use flashlight low mode than warm tint like 4C or even 7A is better option.

You mean “If we use the flashlight on low mode, then warm tints like 4C or even 7A are better options”, right?

Not correcting to be a grammar nazi, it’s because I literally went “wait what” and had to read the text again. It was real confusing right there.

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I especially like warm tints as low-illumination light an hour or two before I go to sleep. I find bright lights, and blue light (in cool lighting), makes it harder for me to go to sleep right away. It’s more a problem with bright light, but decreasing the amount of blue light helps too. Or, maybe warm lighting is just more relaxing.

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I like to tailstand my M1 on the nightstand, turn it on “moonlight” (0,1%) and put a Thrunite T10’s diffuser down on the lens. Makes for a great night light with the 7A tint.

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Jack Kellar wrote:
Tangra wrote:
If we use flashlight low mode than warm tint like 4C or even 7A is better option.

You mean “If we use the flashlight on low mode, then warm tints like 4C or even 7A are better options”, right?

Not correcting to be a grammar nazi, it’s because I literally went “wait what” and had to read the text again. It was real confusing right there.

Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

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You have to keep in mind that this is an international forum and for a lot of the members here, English may be a 2nd or 3rd language. After a while you learn how to figure out what a person is trying to say even though it’s broken up and not exactly correct English.

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JasonWW wrote:
You have to keep in mind that this is an international forum and for a lot of the members here, English may be a 2nd or 3rd language. After a while you learn how to figure out what a person is trying to say even though it’s broken up and not exactly correct English.

I know that, my man. Believe it or not, it’s my second language Glasses That’s why I’m not giving Tangra a hard time over it.

That is in fact one reason why I corrected the phrasing: because most second-language speakers not intently dedicated on learning already have a hard time with properly written language, a more broken phrasing can be even more confusing than it is for a native.

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FWIW, it’s actually a good idea to avoid blue or cool-tinted lights before bed. The blue light interacts with cells in the eye called IPRGCs which then tell the brain to create serotonin. This makes people feel more awake. This effect can be avoided by using only warm-tint lights or wearing blueblocker-type sunglasses at night or using a screen color adjustment tool like redshift.

Well, mostly, anyway. Apparently about 3 out of every 20,000 people don’t respond to blue light this way, and I’m one of those 3. And, statistically, the other 2 are blind. So I’m a bit of a freak.

In general though, it’s good to avoid blue light before bed.

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Omega_17 wrote:
Yes I already tried many times but it doesn’t work and there is no firefly only mode configuration so it must be the chip that is faulty. I have the BLF A6 and Astrolux S41 and I can easily access the config mode.

I have the same experience. I’m using Convoy driver with new firmware and I guess it’s the same driver in new C8. With original tailcap switch, I can easily change mode memory on or off, I set it to off and running normal.

But after I change the tailcap switch with Astrolux lighted tailcap from BG, then the mode memory is always on. In the beginning, I think the problem is in the driver. Something went wrong when I install the new lighted switch. Then I try to put on the original switch to check the config, and Voila! The mode memory setting is back to normal, easily to set on/off.

After that I put back on the lighted switch, then the mode memory is on again, can not be set to off.

Anyone can explain?

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Ryley wrote:
Omega_17 wrote:
Yes I already tried many times but it doesn’t work and there is no firefly only mode configuration so it must be the chip that is faulty. I have the BLF A6 and Astrolux S41 and I can easily access the config mode.

I have the same experience. I’m using Convoy driver with new firmware and I guess it’s the same driver in new C8. With original tailcap switch, I can easily change mode memory on or off, I set it to off and running normal.

But after I change the tailcap switch with Astrolux lighted tailcap from BG, then the mode memory is always on. In the beginning, I think the problem is in the driver. Something went wrong when I install the new lighted switch. Then I try to put on the original switch to check the config, and Voila! The mode memory setting is back to normal, easily to set on/off.

After that I put back on the lighted switch, then the mode memory is on again, can not be set to off.

Anyone can explain?


Yes. A lighted switch’s circuitry interferes wih Biscotti’s functionality.

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When using Astrolux lighted switch you have to put bleeder resistor on driver to work properly.

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

That’s good info, thanks. It sounds like it’s more amber in color, than a “warm white”. That was what I was afraid of. I guess Cree LEDs aren’t very good at emulating incandescent light. I guess they can get the color temperature, but can’t get a proper spectrum to give it a white tint. Probably too much yellow spectrum in the amount of phosphor they have to use to coat the LED to make it warm enough.

I guess I’ll stick with a 4C.

After reading much discussion here, I decided to order both a 7A and a 3A. I’m really curious about the 7A, so I want to give it a try. But I figure that a 3A is probably more useful outdoors as a pocket-thrower, since that matches up with others that I have and I like a slightly cooler tint in throwers. I can always get a 4C later (4000K is my favorite for EDC) if I find the 3A too cool, but don’t see the point in getting two warm tints at the same time.

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

That’s good info, thanks. It sounds like it’s more amber in color, than a “warm white”. That was what I was afraid of. I guess Cree LEDs aren’t very good at emulating incandescent light. I guess they can get the color temperature, but can’t get a proper spectrum to give it a white tint. Probably too much yellow spectrum in the amount of phosphor they have to use to coat the LED to make it warm enough.

I guess I’ll stick with a 4C.

After reading much discussion here, I decided to order both a 7A and a 3A. I’m really curious about the 7A, so I want to give it a try. But I figure that a 3A is probably more useful outdoors as a pocket-thrower, since that matches up with others that I have and I like a slightly cooler tint in throwers. I can always get a 4C later (4000K is my favorite for EDC) if I find the 3A too cool, but don’t see the point in getting two warm tints at the same time.


I hope you like the 7A. I don’t see it as very useful outdoors (and I’m happy I didn’t order a throwier light in it), but for indoors up to 10m away, it’s a beaut. Moreso if it’s the one and only light source around.

Might have to get myself a 3A tint sometime. The coolest Convoy I have is 4C tinted, and while I intend to get a 5B C8 with a smooth reflector for further throw than my current C8 in 4C, I had no plans for 3A.

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
After reading much discussion here, I decided to order both a 7A and a 3A. I’m really curious about the 7A, so I want to give it a try. But I figure that a 3A is probably more useful outdoors as a pocket-thrower, since that matches up with others that I have and I like a slightly cooler tint in throwers. I can always get a 4C later (4000K is my favorite for EDC) if I find the 3A too cool, but don’t see the point in getting two warm tints at the same time.

3A and 3D are some of the nicest I’ve come across.

Ostensibly, my S2+ has a 4C, which is a little too warm and yellow as far as the hotspot. Do a ceiling-bounce, and the mix of yellow hotspot and blue spill gives a quite nice overall light. In fact, really nice.

And I think that’s the problem, that in reflector lights, the hotspot is almost always significantly warmer than the spill (think of the typische “fried-egg” beamshot).

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Jack Kellar wrote:
I hope you like the 7A. I don’t see it as very useful outdoors (and I’m happy I didn’t order a throwier light in it), but for indoors up to 10m away, it’s a beaut. Moreso if it’s the one and only light source around.

I expect it to not be as useful outdoors, but I’m curious to know if the “useful throw” is greater with the 7A than a cooler tint, when it is humid. The warm tint should cut through humidity better than a cool tint and scatter back less light, at least in theory. I wonder if it makes up for the lower output of the 7A.

Funny that we’re thinking a warm tint isn’t useful outdoors, when a couple of decades ago all you could buy was warm tints (incandescent).

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Lightbringer wrote:
Ostensibly, my S2+ has a 4C, which is a little too warm and yellow as far as the hotspot. Do a ceiling-bounce, and the mix of yellow hotspot and blue spill gives a quite nice overall light. In fact, really nice.

And I think that’s the problem, that in reflector lights, the hotspot is almost always significantly warmer than the spill (think of the typische “fried-egg” beamshot).


Funny. I have an S2 in 4C, and the beam tint is very uniform. Now when I’m using my C8 (also in 4C, despite the OP reflector, I can definitely notice the yellow spot contrasting the whiter spill. Thankfully not a problem when using the C8 for range like the thrower that it is.

Is it less of a concern with cooler tints?

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Jack Kellar wrote:
I hope you like the 7A. I don’t see it as very useful outdoors (and I’m happy I didn’t order a throwier light in it), but for indoors up to 10m away, it’s a beaut. Moreso if it’s the one and only light source around.

I expect it to not be as useful outdoors, but I’m curious to know if the “useful throw” is greater with the 7A than a cooler tint, when it is humid. The warm tint should cut through humidity better than a cool tint and scatter back less light, at least in theory. I wonder if it makes up for the lower output of the 7A.

Funny that we’re thinking a warm tint isn’t useful outdoors, when a couple of decades ago all you could buy was warm tints (incandescent).


Well when you have a hammer and nothing else, everything becomes a nail Big Smile

If you can test that for us, please keep me posted, because I wanna know too. It’s drought season where I live, and I won’t be able to check the humidity-cutting power of a 7A at full blast until late September, if not later. OTOH, I can definitely say it doesn’t seem to struggle with dust quite as much as even 4C Silly

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Jack Kellar wrote:
Funny. I have an S2 in 4C, and the beam tint is very uniform.

Forgot… does the S2+ have a SMO or OP reflector? All I recall is the rather fuzzy (and large) hotspot.

Jack Kellar wrote:
Is it less of a concern with cooler tints?

That’s my guess. You got the blue LED and the phosphor sucks away some of the blue light and reradiates it as yellow, red, etc. (big gap in the bluegreen/teal part of the spectrum).

A cooler LED means a thinner layer of phosphor, and less of a contribution to the total beam. So tint-shift is that much less (it’s there and to the same degree, but it’s a smaller piece of the total pie). A warmer LED with more phosphor and more of a contribution is that much more susceptible.

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Jack Kellar wrote:
If you can test that for us, please keep me posted, because I wanna know too. It’s drought season where I live, and I won’t be able to check the humidity-cutting power of a 7A at full blast until late September, if not later. OTOH, I can definitely say it doesn’t seem to struggle with dust quite as much as even 4C Silly

Will do. Though, it’s back-ordered Sad so you might get to test it before me.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Jack Kellar wrote:
Funny. I have an S2 in 4C, and the beam tint is very uniform.

Forgot… does the S2+ have a SMO or OP reflector? All I recall is the rather fuzzy (and large) hotspot.
I don’t know the S2+, I don’t have one. The S2’s stock reflector is OP for sure, and deeper than the S2+‘s.

Jack Kellar wrote:
Is it less of a concern with cooler tints?

That’s my guess. You got the blue LED and the phosphor sucks away some of the blue light and reradiates it as yellow, red, etc. (big gap in the bluegreen/teal part of the spectrum).

A cooler LED means a thinner layer of phosphor, and less of a contribution to the total beam. So tint-shift is that much less (it’s there and to the same degree, but it’s a smaller piece of the total pie). A warmer LED with more phosphor and more of a contribution is that much more susceptible.


Don ‘t you just love physics? Big Smile
Anyway, that makes sense. Thanks.
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Jack Kellar wrote:
If you can test that for us, please keep me posted, because I wanna know too. It’s drought season where I live, and I won’t be able to check the humidity-cutting power of a 7A at full blast until late September, if not later. OTOH, I can definitely say it doesn’t seem to struggle with dust quite as much as even 4C Silly

Will do. Though, it’s back-ordered Sad so you might get to test it before me.


I wouldn’t be so sure. South American savannah’s been known to sometimes see little to no rain from mid-June to late October Sick

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Ollie wrote:
The irony of this is the current craze for LEOs to mount a light on their service pistol. It’s the worst possible place.

They’re doing that?

I just want a .45 longslide with laser-sighting…

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FWIW, a lighted tailcap will make a Biscotti driver think every button press is a short press. The only way around that is to add a bleeder resistor on the driver, to allow current to pass while it’s “off” without keeping the MCU powered up.

As for throw, blue light scatters in the atmosphere. The scattering effect is proportional to the color temperature raised to the fourth power, or something like that, so cooler tints waste a lot more of their output creating a visible blue beam… and that obscures whatever the light is pointing at. So for a thrower it’s important not to have a cold tint.

Unless you want the thrower to look like a light saber. In that case, get the coldest tint you can find. It’s great fun.

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I like the silver flashlight .Silver looks luxurious.

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Ollie wrote:
Ah, humor! Laser not visible in daylight.

I should’ve specified… 900mW blue laser.

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Ollie wrote:
What does that do?

Burns holes in wood, for one thing. Causes INSTANT blindness even with the briefest reflection. Lights up its path in air just from dust and/or humidity.

Oh, but it’ll light up something miles downstream… or on the moon. Big Smile

Seriously, that kind of laser is used to etch wood, and isn’t a toy by any means.

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Ollie wrote:
I thought the warmer tint (warmest I have is 4000K) would help, but I’m not convinced. My opinion is that the warmer tint provides greater contrast, whether the air is dry or humid, and that is what we are seeing.

Do you mean because warmer tints generally have higher CRI? (Anyone know the CRI of the 7A Convoy XPL-HI LED?)

Or do you mean that it’s because a warmer tint is better to light up the red and browns in a forest situation?

I can’t think of another reason why a warmer tint provides better contrast (other than scattering mentioned already).

The downside of a warm tint is that it usually has lower lumens. (U3 bin vs V2 bin in the Convoy, which I think it about 25% less output?) So, I’m curious to see if that drop in output is balanced by the upsides.

Anyway, it will be fun to try. Got my shipment notification today. Smile

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I think a smaller hotspot gives less bounceback. Really, though, I’ve come to think that these factors are of minimal effect. IMHO, the biggest aid is getting the light beam away from your line of sight. The irony of this is the current craze for LEOs to mount a light on their service pistol. It’s the worst possible place. It’s right at your line of sight, so anything that the light bounces off, be it fog, rain, smoke, dust, whatever, is going to close up your retinas.

Yes, very true. However, there are times I want the light very close to my line of sight: it’s a great way to spot animals (from eye shine), using low output. Creepy, but effective. Okay, sometimes too creepy.

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It depends on the cat. Mine figured out the laser immediately, even as a kitten. So when I would try to get him to chase a laser, he would look at the spot, look at the laser in my hand, then give me a look like “Really? How dumb do you think I am?”

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