Lithium–air battery, they could make electric cars practical.

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Rufusbduck
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Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Rufusbduck wrote:
Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

Or you can always just change them to suit Wink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11367272/Climategate-the-sequel-How-w...STILL-being-tricked-with-flawed-data-on-global-warming.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516...

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Rufusbduck wrote:
Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

— speechless —

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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DavidEF wrote:
As for the assertion that solar/wind is cheaper than fossil fuels, I haven’t seen any proof of that. I’d be glad for somebody to show me the math. Fair warning though, I tend to be very skeptical and somewhat critical. I can only be convinced by hard facts, not marketing materials or emotional pleas to save the Earth.

If you are as open minded as you claim
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/14/carbontracker-declares-renewable-po...
https://thinkprogress.org/solar-low-price-record-68db04b796b3#.x73mfzu3v
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/04/current-cost-solar-panels/
http://cleantechnica.com/2010/08/01/historic-report-solar-energy-costs-n...
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/20/solar-supply-glut-push-module-price...

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

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Thanks, Bort, I’ve learned a lot in the last hour reading those articles! Big Smile

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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DavidEF wrote:
Thanks, Bort, I’ve learned a lot in the last hour reading those articles! Big Smile

Your welcome, you can spend many hours learning more about the renewable energy field, articles such as these give policy ideas on how to deal with challenges (though sometimes they can be over optimistic, trust but verify)
https://cleantechnica.com/70-80-99-9-100-renewables-study-central/

Following the daily articles on cleantechnica and thinkprogress is a good start, depending on your interests (solar, wind, distributed power, energy storage, lithium batteries, tidal power, energy efficient buildings (and retrofits), conservation and demand management, hydropower, policy and subsidies and much more) you can find and follow countless sources out there to learn more about these

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

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An interesting article on the tanker industry Eschewing safety for profit margins. Changing flag registries when not able to pass inspections etc. but mostly about rust and how the industry is or isn’t dealing with it.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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dw911 wrote:
Rufusbduck wrote:
Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

Or you can always just change them to suit Wink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11367272/Climategate-the-sequel-How-w...STILL-being-tricked-with-flawed-data-on-global-warming.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516...


Wow, that is definitely interesting, too, and right along with a lot of what I’d already encountered which makes me so skeptical of ‘Global Warming’ aka ‘Climate Change’.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

SawMaster
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Rufusbduck wrote:
An interesting article on the tanker industry Eschewing safety for profit margins. Changing flag registries when not able to pass inspections etc. but mostly about rust and how the industry is or isn’t dealing with it.

“Flag of Convenience” is a euphemism for near-slavery sometimes Angry And even totally land-locked countries without a sea or connection to a sea are now in the “Flag” business. In the maritime world the least-seen flag is USA because our standards are some of the highest (along with the costs). It not just oilers but every ship.

But don’t worry- everything petroleum in the US is kept as minimal as they can get away with which is less than the law allows. Dangerous things only get fixed when the Government is about to shut them down, or when the cost of leaving it alone will exceed the cheapest patchwork repair possible that will get a government ‘pass’ so they can continue to feed the greedy stockholders who only care about profit margins Sad

Phil

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Quote:
GM told me that the regenerative braking can recoup 95 percent of the energy used to accelerate the car

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/09/21/the-chevy-b...

>Telegraph … climate … booker
I won’t go into it here.
Stay skeptical. You can look this stuff up — that’s an old 2015 article.
You’ll find ample commentary about Booker if you look him up.
It really, really, shouldn’t become a discussion here. It’s fraught.

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SawMaster wrote:

Dangerous things only get fixed when the Government is about to shut them down, or when the cost of leaving it alone will exceed the cheapest patchwork repair possible that will get a government ‘pass’ so they can continue to feed the greedy stockholders who only care about profit margins Sad

Phil


many vote to expand the harm because they choose to believe the government caused the danger

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

sidecross
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hank wrote:
Quote:
GM told me that the regenerative braking can recoup 95 percent of the energy used to accelerate the car

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/09/21/the-chevy-b...

>Telegraph … climate … booker
I won’t go into it here.
Stay skeptical. You can look this stuff up — that’s an old 2015 article.
You’ll find ample commentary about Booker if you look him up.
It really, really, shouldn’t become a discussion here. It’s fraught.


Most main media like NYT and Washington Post are no longer acting as journalists, They only pass out press releases from government or corporations without being examined.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

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I won’t go into that here either.
I recommend looking this stuff up; Google Scholar* (and even better, the librarian at the Reference Desk at your nearby public or college library).
_______

  • empty your cache, block cookies, sign out of everything that tracks you first — evade the filter bubble that shows you more of what makes you want to click more.

Rufusbduck
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Skepticism is good if applied equally to both sides of a discussion, otherwise you are just swallowing one side’s line instead of the other. I’m optimistic about our ability to solve problems but less so about our inclination to implement those solutions.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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hank wrote:
I won’t go into that here either.
I recommend looking this stuff up; Google Scholar* (and even better, the librarian at the Reference Desk at your nearby public or college library).
_______
  • empty your cache, block cookies, sign out of everything that tracks you first — evade the filter bubble that shows you more of what makes you want to click more.

I am surprised that your response to a decrease in investigative journalism is “I won’t go into that here either”.

The * you wrote in itself deserves to be reported on more thoroughly and investigated. Is it little wonder that Snowden was forced to flee the country for his revelations of what the NSA is doing?

The Washington Post who printed and then won a Pulitzer Prize for their reporting on Snowden’s revelations has now written in an editorial calling for his prosecution. What a sham. Sad

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/18/washpost-makes-history-first-paper-t...

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

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Rufusbduck wrote:
Skepticism is good if applied equally to both sides of a discussion, otherwise you are just swallowing one side’s line instead of the other. I’m optimistic about our ability to solve problems but less so about our inclination to implement those solutions.

Well said RDB Thumbs Up I’m a skeptic at heart but I can be convinced and learn. The one thing I can’t do is be led which is the proof-mark of a true skeptic Cool Only the led can be misled, so never follow anybody but yourself and be smart enough to be someone worth following Wink

I’d love to see a cell/battery technology come along making home power generation easy, practical, safe, and cheap. So far we’ve got winners in each category but not all of them together, and without having them all you don’t yet have enough. Let’s keep looking though- skeptic or not I’d like to see it happen!

Phil

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I think there will always be safety concerns but safer is better than not. More and more people are installing home generator systems and accidents do happen regardless of where the juice comes from. I would nust like to see as much attention paid to the costs and hazards of each rather than nickel and diming alternative energy while giving fossil fuels a free pass on so many collateral costs that don’t show up at the pump. A few years ago a natural gas pipeline through San Bruno blew an entire neighborhood killing several people. Safety already has more to do with conscientious maintenance and responsibility than hardware. I’d have no problem whatsoever with solar, a power wall, and a small hybrid truck (if I could find one) even with current technology. I’ve had my truck for 15 years and in that time put 260,000 miles on it with an average fuel cost of at least $3000 per year for a total of more than $45,000. Most of that time the cost of fuel was closer to $3.50 per gallon than $3(sometimes over $4)and the stuff inevitably costs more tomorrow than today. If it takes hybrid technology to span the mileage gap for a generation of vehicles then will somebody please build it into a small truck?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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sidecross wrote:
hank wrote:
Quote:
GM told me that the regenerative braking can recoup 95 percent of the energy used to accelerate the car

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/09/21/the-chevy-b...

>Telegraph … climate … booker
I won’t go into it here.
Stay skeptical. You can look this stuff up — that’s an old 2015 article.
You’ll find ample commentary about Booker if you look him up.
It really, really, shouldn’t become a discussion here. It’s fraught.


Most main media like NYT and Washington Post are no longer acting as journalists, They only pass out press releases from government or corporations without being examined.

The problem in Journalism to day is that it doesn’t pay to do it. The papers face ever decreasing circulation and income, and organizations like Fox News have conclusively demonstrated that you can make much more without doing any research (that costs money). Fox News is part of the entertainment division! In this day and age, if there isn’t any money in it, it isn’t going to happen. That’s the basic problem with Journalism in this country now. There is no longer any money to be made by actually doing work and attempting to present a fair and accurate picture. Unfortunately the Business model for newspaper Journalism is now broken, and probably not repairable, the short term solution is that anything that costs money (like respectable journalists) gets shown the door, so the problem gets worse until the paper news media eventually goes bust. YMMV

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Rufusbduck wrote:
I think there will always be safety concerns but safer is better than not. More and more people are installing home generator systems and accidents do happen regardless of where the juice comes from. I would nust like to see as much attention paid to the costs and hazards of each rather than nickel and diming alternative energy while giving fossil fuels a free pass on so many collateral costs that don’t show up at the pump. A few years ago a natural gas pipeline through San Bruno blew an entire neighborhood killing several people. Safety already has more to do with conscientious maintenance and responsibility than hardware. I’d have no problem whatsoever with solar, a power wall, and a small hybrid truck (if I could find one) even with current technology. I’ve had my truck for 15 years and in that time put 260,000 miles on it with an average fuel cost of at least $3000 per year for a total of more than $45,000. Most of that time the cost of fuel was closer to $3.50 per gallon than $3(sometimes over $4)and the stuff inevitably costs more tomorrow than today. If it takes hybrid technology to span the mileage gap for a generation of vehicles then will somebody please build it into a small truck?

The current weight of a Tesla Model S with a 85kWh battery weighs 1200 lb or 544kg and this is just the weight of the battery packs.

Development has to be in more reduction of current battery weight, and especially if used in a truck carrying cargo.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

mattheww
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Rufusbduck wrote:
I think there will always be safety concerns but safer is better than not. More and more people are installing home generator systems and accidents do happen regardless of where the juice comes from. I would nust like to see as much attention paid to the costs and hazards of each rather than nickel and diming alternative energy while giving fossil fuels a free pass on so many collateral costs that don’t show up at the pump. A few years ago a natural gas pipeline through San Bruno blew an entire neighborhood killing several people. Safety already has more to do with conscientious maintenance and responsibility than hardware. I’d have no problem whatsoever with solar, a power wall, and a small hybrid truck (if I could find one) even with current technology. I’ve had my truck for 15 years and in that time put 260,000 miles on it with an average fuel cost of at least $3000 per year for a total of more than $45,000. Most of that time the cost of fuel was closer to $3.50 per gallon than $3(sometimes over $4)and the stuff inevitably costs more tomorrow than today. If it takes hybrid technology to span the mileage gap for a generation of vehicles then will somebody please build it into a small truck?

GM actually did build a Chevrolet hybrid pick-up truck. The production was extremely limited and it received so little PR and notice that you’d think it was a secret! I have a friend who actually owns one. He had to travel 500 miles to find one at a dealer! IIRC it is 2013.

sidecross
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mattheww wrote:

The problem in Journalism to day is that it doesn’t pay to do it. The papers face ever decreasing circulation and income, and organizations like Fox News have conclusively demonstrated that you can make much more without doing any research (that costs money). Fox News is part of the entertainment division! In this day and age, if there isn’t any money in it, it isn’t going to happen. That’s the basic problem with Journalism in this country now. There is no longer any money to be made by actually doing work and attempting to present a fair and accurate picture. Unfortunately the Business model for newspaper Journalism is now broken, and probably not repairable, the short term solution is that anything that costs money (like respectable journalists) gets shown the door, so the problem gets worse until the paper news media eventually goes bust. YMMV

There is not much to argue about what you have written; current journalism is being kept in check with a justification that it must be profitable.

There was good cause that the U.S. has as its First Amendment in the Constitution that calls for freedom of speech and the press; it was not ever written that must be profitable.

We live on a planet with limited resources; the idea of an expanding economy without this understanding these limits is an economy moving towards a collapse. A good reading of world history both by the written word and the natural sciences will show that collapse has not been a novel event.

We are now living in the Holocene after just leaving the Cretaceous Period. One of the biggest problems we face as a species is hubris.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

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Too true and we affect much more than control the world around us even at the same time as we deny the effects while assuming control.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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DavidEF wrote:
dw911 wrote:
Rufusbduck wrote:
Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

Or you can always just change them to suit Wink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11367272/Climategate-the-sequel-How-w...STILL-being-tricked-with-flawed-data-on-global-warming.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516...


Wow, that is definitely interesting, too, and right along with a lot of what I’d already encountered which makes me so skeptical of ‘Global Warming’ aka ‘Climate Change’.

Consider the source.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Christopher Booker:

Quote:
Despite having no medical or scientific qualifications he has taken a stance which runs counter to the scientific consensus on a number of issues, including global warming, the link between passive smoking and cancer,2 and the dangers posed by asbestos.3
Rufusbduck
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He seems fond of hyperbole and given the topics he discusses even more fond of notoriety than truth. A relative on my mothers side of the family was a college journalism professor with a student named Dan Rather, that professor was dismayed at Rather’s emphasis on selling a story instead of telling it. More recent but still old news was the 60 minutes expose on Marin county and it’s culture along with later interviews of some of the people portrayed along with raw footage. It was readily apparent that the 60 minutes team did not investigate but instead scripted a show then recorded sound bites to validate the script, editing as needed to convey what was desired for the script rather than what was actually said. It’s an entertaining show but it’s been decades now since I’ve been able to trust their integrity.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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KeepingItLight wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
dw911 wrote:
Rufusbduck wrote:
Wow, when the facts aren’t what you like just pretend they don’t count. Huh?

Or you can always just change them to suit Wink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11367272/Climategate-the-sequel-How-w...STILL-being-tricked-with-flawed-data-on-global-warming.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516...


Wow, that is definitely interesting, too, and right along with a lot of what I’d already encountered which makes me so skeptical of ‘Global Warming’ aka ‘Climate Change’.

Consider the source.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Christopher Booker:

Quote:
Despite having no medical or scientific qualifications he has taken a stance which runs counter to the scientific consensus on a number of issues, including global warming, the link between passive smoking and cancer,2 and the dangers posed by asbestos.3

My point was tongue in cheek in regard to the “when you don’t like the facts” comment Smile

Don’t know much about the author of the article – don’t much care, he could well think that all politicians are really space aliens in human disguise – it was just a link to a story that was far from fiction, there was much fiddling with data by a group of scientists etc,who should know better, it was reported on by many trusted and reliable sources and did untold damage to the the climate change movement.
But I’m of much the same option as Davidef in regard to being sceptical. There is far to much fiddling of data, half truths, vested intrests etc from both sides, all it achieves is people become sceptical, swith off and just think it’s far easier to just carry on the way they always have, as it’s often easier to live with the lies you already have, than to deal with some new ones from someone else

Often the stuff that comes from the climate change movement is no better than that that comes from the fossil fuel movement, it’s just a hipper kind of rap

Joshk
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dw911 wrote:
There is far to much fiddling of data, half truths, vested intrests etc from both sides

For the people that distrust all data, try this thought experiment. Would you go to bed with the exhaust of your car pumping into your bedroom? Hell no. But our planet is a closed system. There’s 1.2 billion cars being driven and that’s probably nothing compared to the coal power plants and trade ships. I read somewhere that the ships that move goods internationally (like china to US) use more fuel per day than all the cars. How the heck do you not want to sleep in exhaust but are ok with pumping it into the atmosphere at rates you can’t even imagine? It’s even in your bedroom as you sleep, for real! Perhaps the problem is just too big for some imaginations.

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Joshk wrote:
dw911 wrote:
There is far to much fiddling of data, half truths, vested intrests etc from both sides

For the people that distrust all data, try this thought experiment. Would you go to bed with the exhaust of your car pumping into your bedroom? Hell no. But our planet is a closed system. There’s 1.2 billion cars being driven and that’s probably nothing compared to the coal power plants and trade ships. I read somewhere that the ships that move goods internationally (like china to US) use more fuel per day than all the cars. How the heck do you not want to sleep in exhaust but are ok with pumping it into the atmosphere at rates you can’t even imagine? It’s even in your bedroom as you sleep, for real! Perhaps the problem is just too big for some imaginations.


Well, our planet is a closed system – and all the plants clean the air. Some do a better job of it than others. And of course, some areas of the world have a higher plants-to-environmental-toxins ratio than others. My bedroom has no plants at all. In fact my house doesn’t have any at all. I’d like to have a few for air purification and oxygen production, but we’re too lazy to properly care for them. Just the truth. I have no excuse.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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At least until we kill the plants. Try looking up the rate of deforestation. A closed system to stay stable has to be in equilibrium. Generating CO2 while at the same time removing the forests and jungles that convert it back to carbon and oxygen is pushing on one side of the system only.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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RBD is right, cleaners are decreasing as the need for them is increasing.
And don’t be fooled into thinking your house is a closed system, it sure isn’t. Air is exchanged through mysterious leaks at an alarming rate – I discovered this when I couldn’t figure out why the big ass humidifier I bought seemed to have the opposite effect on my house. I read and learned how ridiculously large your humidifier really needs to be to keep up with all the dry air leaking in during the winter. And that house was just 10 years old and ‘well sealed’. But wind creates a push/suck effect on the opposite walls and really exchanges air fast even when you can’t find a draft.

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