Brand New AWT 26650's only 4200mAh - not 5200mAh - UPDATE

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Zebretta
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Brand New AWT 26650's only 4200mAh - not 5200mAh - UPDATE

Good morning,

Advice requested please.

Just received 2 brand new AWT IMR 26650 5200mAh batteries from ebay seller  r-lsales (HERRIMAN, UT ) and did a Discharge test on them.

The result was both batteries ~4200mAh.  The IR is 25mO and 28mO

I have only run the discharge test once.   Should I run it a few more times?   Is that likely to raise the capacity by ~1000mAh?

Should I return these as defective?

I'll be using them in my new Convoy L6 so I was really counting on at least 5200mAh.

Thanks

Edited by: Zebretta on 02/21/2017 - 10:31
atbglenn
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At what voltage did the test end at? I usually discharge my cells to 2.8 volts at 1 amp and still almost never get the rated capacity. Usually around 100mAh less and sometimes more, but never 1000mAh’s. I personally would try cycling them a couple of times to see if they improve.

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Zebretta
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I'm not exactly sure of the voltage it stopped the discharge cycle but it's calibrated for the batteries that it detects are inserted.

Interesting to note..the same day I also received two efast, 26650 3500mAh batteries and they both (using the exact same equipment and test) came out at 3563mAh and 3593mAh respectively.

atbglenn
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what are you using to discharge them?

Here are 2 4200mAh Efest 26650’s measured with my Liitokala Lii – 500 on it’s NOR test function. Not sure how accurate it is. I’ll do another test with my Icharger 106B hobby charger when I have a chance.

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Speed4goal
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They may improve a little bit with a couple cycles. I bought some Walmart 18650s. Last years 2015s cleareance. Just to try them. 3 of them tested 1900+ then at 2k after a couple cycles. One only tested at 1500. About three cycles later it moved up to about 1750 but that’s as far as it improved. I use the opus which discharges down to 2.8 at one amp. And I get the same results he describes. Usually a little low sometimes a little high. Because to get the full capacity the manufacter rates you have to go to 2.5volts and you need a hobby charger for that. Or a sky rc 3000 which is basically one in 4 bay config. If your going to 2.8 there shouldn’t be 1000mah left between 2.8 and 2.5 few hundred maybe. Usually falls off rapidly after 2.8 I could be wrong I think the litto 500 cuts off at 3.0 volts? You might want to contact seller about replacements. But usually batteries are non returnable. On the other hand anytime you purchase a rewrap the seller or you have no idea what cell they really put in there. They change them up all the time. Efest has been seen using 2-3 different cells before for the same rating cell. Granted with 26650 we are at the mercy of rewrappers because no big names make them. I’ve never used awt. I don’t know if they are a good rewrapper. I will say liito Kala, thorfire, and evva 26650s have all exceeded the capacity advertises. Got the thorfire cells from thorfire on amazon. Rated 5000, tested around 5100-5200, evva cells rated 5200 tested 5300+ from e and litto Kala 5000 cells tested around 5200-5300ish from GearBest before shipping fiasco. I can recommend any three of those cells.

But the cells you have will still work fine in the l6. See what the seller says. They may replace or exchange them never know.

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Zebretta
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Thanks for the replies.
I’m using an AccuPower IQ338XL for these tests. But I do have a Turnigy Accucell 6 sitting here that I could also try although in the past they are usually in very close agreement to the capacity.

atbglenn
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I’m doing a test with my hobby charger at this moment. I’ll post my findings later Smile

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Zebretta
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atbglenn wrote:
I’m doing a test with my hobby charger at this moment. I’ll post my findings later Smile

I just put them on another Discharge test cycle. It will be late this evening when they finish because I have the discharge current set to 500mA and the charge current is 700mA.

But I highly doubt they can recover 1000mAh

EasyB
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Are these the cells?
lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AWT%20IMR26650%205200mAh%20(Red)%202015%20UK.html

~4200mAh is what HKJ got as well.

Capacity ratings are usually not very accurate. I would recommend using HKJ’s data to research cells before buying.

atbglenn
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Yeah, a thousand mAh is a bit much. I’d still try your hobby charger when you have a change just to compare.

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Zebretta
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EasyB wrote:
Are these the cells?
lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AWT%20IMR26650%205200mAh%20(Red)%202015%20UK.html

~4200mAh is what HKJ got as well.

Capacity ratings are usually not very accurate. I would recommend using HKJ’s data to research cells before buying.

Well I’ll be. Yes. Those are the cells and my results perfectly agree with his. Lesson learned.
These are 4200mAh batteries

Zebretta
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At $11.00 per cell, maybe I should just learn the lesson here and keep them? They’re probably worth $11.00 per cell at 4200mAh?
Even though I really wanted 5200mAh for this light.

sac02
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(Actual) 5000mAh Liito-Kala 26650s can be had for under $6/ea, including shipping. I just ordered 4 for $23 the other day. They are capable of pretty good discharge rates too.

:shrug:
stephenk
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With quite a few good options for purchasing li-ion cells in the USA, buying AWT cells (which don’t have the best reputation) from a random eBay seller seems like a bit of an odd choice.

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With quite a few good options for purchasing li-ion cells in the USA, buying AWT cells (which don’t have the best reputation) from a random eBay seller seems like a bit of an odd choice.

As the cells are not as advertised I would seek a refund.

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Just a suggestion for future 26650 batteries. The link below tests numerous 26650 and list the top ones. One that he did not test was the Liitokala which is also known to be a top rated battery.

Your cell is also listed in this test and got a LOW grade just as HKJ graded it!

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/26650-battery-bench-test...

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Zebretta
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Thanks everyone. Lessons learned.

Zebretta
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First discharge test showed ~4200mAh for both batteries with only a small difference.
After a 2nd cycle, the batteries improved by ~200mAh and are now showing approx ~4400mAh capacity….better….but still 800mAh short of the advertised 5200mAh capacity.

Running 3rd discharge-test cycle now. I’m expecting less improvement on this 3rd cycle than was seen on the 2nd cycle.
Results are in….
3rd Cycle….
4420mAh (I think it’s maxed out now so that’s it)

Minimum voltage BTW was 2.81v

The Miller
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Dang sorry to read this man!
I feel lucky tobhave bought some of the first batch of Liitokala 26650 cells.
It is just tricky, but on the plus side 4400+ is more then any 18650 can give you!

bella-headlight
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Or you could get these 12000mah 26650 cells Wink

And only $22 for 4, bargain Smile

Ian

Zebretta
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Ordered some of these…….

Not quite 12000mAh but they’ll do.

Zebretta
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atbglenn wrote:
At what voltage did the test end at? I usually discharge my cells to 2.8 volts at 1 amp and still almost never get the rated capacity. Usually around 100mAh less and sometimes more, but never 1000mAh’s. I personally would try cycling them a couple of times to see if they improve.

My AccuPower IQ338LX stopped the discharge test at 2.8v also.

Zebretta
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I really need some advice. I’m not expert enough yet to be sure of his reply.
The seller sent me a reply to my return request and I’m not sure what to make of it.
Other batteries I test with my same battery testers/chargers show that they are good batteries and they meet the advertised capacity.
The ebay seller is telling me my chargers are inadequate and that I need an oscilloscope to properly measure the capacity….
I have an AccuPower IQ338LX and an Turnigy Accucell 6

If he is correct then I will probably just keep them.

Here is his reply……

“You need an oscilloscope to test these. Not the cheap battery chargers. There are no decent battery chargers to test these. I have several chargers and you just can not rely on a battery tester/charger. You need an oscillascope which costs you around $1000.00 and a battery tester cost from $20 to $60 bucks. You cant use those cheap testers for a mah reading. You need to google more info. Mah testing takes hours and battery testers give you cheap results in seconds. You need to return these at your own expense and stop abusing the return system.”

opinions?

Speed4goal
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Could just keep them. Or..

File PayPal dispute product not as described. Battery capacity is not as described. Take pictures of the capacity even. You could show hjks test link. EBay usually sides with the buyer. I wouldn’t have anymore communication outside the dispute if you are going to go that route.

But they arnt horrible batteries. You’ll still get a good runtime from them. You could just leave negative feedback on the seller and go on with life lessoned learned.

It sounds like you arnt the first person the seller has had issues with. Almost seems standoffish. In the end its up to you. Negative feedback with fake capacity batteries review hurts sellers.

If you want to reply I’d say I’m not using a cheap battery tester, or a cheap charger. I didn’t get a mah reading in seconds. I ran 3 test and takes several hours each and they are below capacity. Here is even a more in depth test of these batteries. And send him some of hjks graphs. I have the equipment to check batteries. And 100mah would have been OK but not 1000mah difference. You can refund me or I’ll open a dispute and let eBay deal with it. Since they are here to protect me against sellers like you

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atbglenn
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Zebretta wrote:
atbglenn wrote:
At what voltage did the test end at? I usually discharge my cells to 2.8 volts at 1 amp and still almost never get the rated capacity. Usually around 100mAh less and sometimes more, but never 1000mAh’s. I personally would try cycling them a couple of times to see if they improve.

My AccuPower IQ338LX stopped the discharge test at 2.8v also.

I made an error stating that I discharge at 1 amp with the Litokala Lii-500. It charges at 1 amp, but only discharges at 500 milliamps. My hobby charger on the other hand can discharge up to 7 amps. Sorry for the confusion.

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bella-headlight
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Zebretta wrote:
I really need some advice. I’m not expert enough yet to be sure of his reply.
The seller sent me a reply to my return request and I’m not sure what to make of it.
Other batteries I test with my same battery testers/chargers show that they are good batteries and they meet the advertised capacity.
The ebay seller is telling me my chargers are inadequate and that I need an oscilloscope to properly measure the capacity….
I have an AccuPower IQ338LX and an Turnigy Accucell 6

If he is correct then I will probably just keep them.

Here is his reply……

“You need an oscilloscope to test these. Not the cheap battery chargers. There are no decent battery chargers to test these. I have several chargers and you just can not rely on a battery tester/charger. You need an oscillascope which costs you around $1000.00 and a battery tester cost from $20 to $60 bucks. You cant use those cheap testers for a mah reading. You need to google more info. Mah testing takes hours and battery testers give you cheap results in seconds. You need to return these at your own expense and stop abusing the return system.”

opinions?

The seller is talking out of his backside & either doesn“t know what he is on about or is being immediately aggressive & negative because he has had other complaints about these cells capacity.
You do not need a $1000 oscilliscope to get a capacity reading of within a hundred or 200ma of accurate & you are 1000 ma different.
A Lii-500, Opus etc will give a close enough reading to show if the capacity claim is fake or not.
According to his statement then a SkyRC MC3000 is also a cheap non decent charger that cannot be used to test capacity Facepalm
From the sellers aggressive reply it does sound as if you are not the first person to pull him up on his capacity claims.
If you do decide to keep the cells though what feedback are you going to give as if you give honest feedback then his communication is poor aggressive & arrogant & the product is not as advertised.
Up to you which way you go.
They are reasonably good cells but 1000mah less than claimed.
You could just put it down to experience & keep them or involve paypal as from his reply he is not willing to do anything to put the matter right unless you pay the return shipping.
EDIT: Just re-read your post, I am not familiar with the accuracy of the 2 chargers you mention.
Are they normally reasonably accurate for capacity testing ?

Ian

Zebretta
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bella-headlight wrote:
Zebretta wrote:
I really need some advice. I’m not expert enough yet to be sure of his reply.
The seller sent me a reply to my return request and I’m not sure what to make of it.
Other batteries I test with my same battery testers/chargers show that they are good batteries and they meet the advertised capacity.
The ebay seller is telling me my chargers are inadequate and that I need an oscilloscope to properly measure the capacity….
I have an AccuPower IQ338LX and an Turnigy Accucell 6

If he is correct then I will probably just keep them.

Here is his reply……

“You need an oscilloscope to test these. Not the cheap battery chargers. There are no decent battery chargers to test these. I have several chargers and you just can not rely on a battery tester/charger. You need an oscillascope which costs you around $1000.00 and a battery tester cost from $20 to $60 bucks. You cant use those cheap testers for a mah reading. You need to google more info. Mah testing takes hours and battery testers give you cheap results in seconds. You need to return these at your own expense and stop abusing the return system.”

opinions?

The seller is talking out of his backside & either doesn“t know what he is on about or is being immediately aggressive & negative because he has had other complaints about these cells capacity.
You do not need a $1000 oscilliscope to get a capacity reading of within a hundred or 200ma of accurate & you are 1000 ma different.
A Lii-500, Opus etc will give a close enough reading to show if the capacity claim is fake or not.
According to his statement then a SkyRC MC3000 is also a cheap non decent charger that cannot be used to test capacity Facepalm
From the sellers aggressive reply it does sound as if you are not the first person to pull him up on his capacity claims.
If you do decide to keep the cells though what feedback are you going to give as if you give honest feedback then his communication is poor aggressive & arrogant & the product is not as advertised.
Up to you which way you go.
They are reasonably good cells but 1000mah less than claimed.
You could just put it down to experience & keep them or involve paypal as from his reply he is not willing to do anything to put the matter right unless you pay the return shipping.
EDIT: Just re-read your post, I am not familiar with the accuracy of the 2 chargers you mention.
Are they normally reasonably accurate for capacity testing ?

Yes, they seem to be. They always agree with he results others post here and they agree with each other.

Want to hear something funny? I actually do have an $1200.00 oscilloscope in the garage that I picked up in an estate sale years ago. I just haven’t really taken the time to learn how to use it Facepalm

bella-headlight
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Well it is really up to you then.
The seller is being an arse IMO.
I personally would not be happy buying 5200mah rated cells & finding they are actually 1000mah less.
However other than some really really poor “fire” cells I bought years ago before I knew any better & some “fire” cells that have come supplied with lights I have always bought cells that have matched claims.
In the case of 26650“s I have bought cells that actually exceed capacity claims (Liitokala & Thorfire 26650“s Thumbs Up ).
I always read cell reviews on here & on HKJ“s site before buying Thumbs Up
So the ball is in your court so to speak Wink

Ian

bella-headlight
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BTW HJK only got 4205ma capacity out of them at just 200ma discharge rate, according to the seller he obviously doesn“t know what he is on about either http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AWT%20IMR26650%205200mAh%20(Red)%202015%20UK.html Facepalm

Ian

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Just looked up the sellers feedback & he has already received negative feedback regarding cells & also buyers saying he is arrogant & rude Sad

Ian

Zebretta
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bella-headlight wrote:
Just looked up the sellers feedback & he has already received negative feedback regarding cells & also buyers saying he is arrogant & rude Sad

Yeah, I messed up. If I end up taking the hit here it’s my fault to the degree that I was not as educated on where good batteries come from.
I’m a bit wiser now.

IMR and GearBest are where most of my batts come from now. But I’m reading HKJ’s and others reviews first from now on also.

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