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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5 - Nichia 219C 90+ CRI - Latticebright "XM-L" - XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5 - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 13:35

#5

gchart

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So… marginally higher lumens (55lm at most) until about 6amps. And a bit lower vF. Eh. It’s good to have options though!

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 14:04

#6

djozz

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Thanks for the test TA!

I see a great led for a parallel triple on a single li-ion cell, compared to the 219C a slightly smoother beam with more output because of the even lower Vf.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 15:26

#7

zak.wilson

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Thanks for the test. This falls a little short of what I was hoping it would do, but all the applications I have in mind for the ones I ordered were more throwy than I wanted with a 219C, so I’m happy to have a solution to that problem. These should make great triples. I wonder if an R9050 option is coming.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 17:16

#8

clemence

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Like I said earlier, this is about as bright as the D320 219C.
A quality upgrade for 219series in the near future, but not yet. Nichia cram more emitting area with approx. the same thermal pad footprint. I guess 319C D600 is to be expected in 2019, who knows?

Tex, greatly appreciate the test!

- Clemence

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 17:28

#9

Texas_Ace

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My guess is that the thermal pad is the limiting factor even on the 219C, so it makes sense that the 319A doesn’t make drastic increases in output. I wish they would at least adopt the cree footprint with the slightly but noticeably larger pads.

I really wish that the 5050 footprint would be updated. It has so much more thermal shedding ability I bet that existing dies would get a good boost in performance from that alone.

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5 - Nichia 219C 90+ CRI - Latticebright "XM-L" - XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5 - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 17:38

#10

clemence

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Texas_Ace wrote:
My guess is that the thermal pad is the limiting factor even on the 219C, so it makes sense that the 319A doesn’t make drastic increases in output. I wish they would at least adopt the cree footprint with the slightly but noticeably larger pads.
I really wish that the 5050 footprint would be updated. It has so much more thermal shedding ability I bet that existing dies would get a good boost in performance from that alone.

Contrary to what we would expect:
- 119A/B/C and 144A is Nichia answer for larger thermal shedding performance……
- What is Nichia recommendation for flashlight applications? The answer is this: SERIOUSLY??

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Physical and thermal properties of solder alloy - Shooting Beamshots With HDR - Nichia E21A Tint Shots

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 18:33

#11

MRsDNF

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Nice work TA. Invaluable info.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 19:16

#12

zak.wilson

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clemence wrote:
- What is Nichia recommendation for flashlight applications? The answer is this: SERIOUSLY?? :

I think what you meant to link was this

It’s mostly 5mm strawhat LEDs, but this looks pretty acceptable.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 19:26

#13

clemence

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zak.wilson wrote:
clemence wrote:
- What is Nichia recommendation for flashlight applications? The answer is this: SERIOUSLY?? :

I think what you meant to link was this

It’s mostly 5mm strawhat LEDs, but this looks pretty acceptable.

Yes, E17A and E21A is MORE than acceptable. It’s another “219B/C HI” with wide range of Ra9080 [2700K-5700K]
No I meant, I literally asked one of the Nichia guy and also read at the hardcopy catalogue. And the most “flashaholic acceptable” answer were some DIP and NCSL types.
Different standards…

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 19:41

#14

Rufusbduck

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Texas_Ace wrote:
My guess is that the thermal pad is the limiting factor even on the 219C, so it makes sense that the 319A doesn’t make drastic increases in output. I wish they would at least adopt the cree footprint with the slightly but noticeably larger pads.
I really wish that the 5050 footprint would be updated. It has so much more thermal shedding ability I bet that existing dies would get a good boost in performance from that alone.

Like an XP die on an XM substrate?

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 19:47

#15

gchart

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clemence wrote:
Yes, E17A and E21A is MORE than acceptable. It’s another “219B/C HI” with wide range of Ra9080 [2700K-5700K]

I was checking up on the E21A, it looked interesting but then I noticed there’s no thermal pad. Kinda puts a damper on things, no?

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 19:57

#16

clemence

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gchart wrote:
clemence wrote:
Yes, E17A and E21A is MORE than acceptable. It’s another “219B/C HI” with wide range of Ra9080 [2700K-5700K]
I was checking up on the E21A, it looked interesting but then I noticed there’s no thermal pad. Kinda puts a damper on things, no?

Just like those 144AM/AR

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 20:01

#17

Texas_Ace

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Rufusbduck wrote:
Like an XP die on an XM substrate?

Yes, except for AAA lights there is basically no situation in a flashlight where a 5050 footprint would not fit and it offers a much much much larger thermal pad which can only be a good thing.

Plus 3535 LED’s are generally rated for a max of 2A where 5050 generally get rated for 3A. Obviously showing an improvement in thermal path to some degree.

Exactly how much of an effect it would have, I am not sure but I have seen a consistent limit of between ~35-40W for the Cree 3535 LED’s and around 20-25W for the nichia 3535 LED’s.

Having seen this on many LED’s, the results would seem to lead to something besides just limits within the die itself and more in the thermal path.

Much like the first and best place to get more traction in a car is wider tires, I feel that starting with a larger thermal pad is the first thing that should be done with LED’s.

But then I am the guy that will cram 325’s on an MR2 and then run drag radials on top of that to multiply traction even more. (for those not car guys, this is roughly the equivalent of a 8x XHP50 SRK making 17,000 lumens in the flashlight world, not completely unheard of but WAY overkill).

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5 - Nichia 219C 90+ CRI - Latticebright "XM-L" - XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5 - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 21:07

#18

zak.wilson

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Quote:
this is roughly the equivalent of a 8x XHP50 SRK making 17,000 lumens in the flashlight world

Did you see what Vinh just did with an Acebeam X65 and 28 XHP70s? No, that wasn’t a typo. Twenty eight XHP70s.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 21:13

#19

clemence

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I prefer dependable “practical” modded lights. Don’t you think it’s better for him to just use COB? More compact optics too?

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 21:43

#20

Texas_Ace

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zak.wilson wrote:
Quote:
this is roughly the equivalent of a 8x XHP50 SRK making 17,000 lumens in the flashlight world

Did you see what Vinh just did with an Acebeam X65 and 28 XHP70s? No, that wasn’t a typo. Twenty eight XHP70s.

I don’t pay attention to him myself.

I will admit that I am bummed he was the first to make a true 100k lumen flashlight. I have actually been working on a setup that should do this for this years OL scratch build contest.

Seeing as 100k lumens would be around ~1200-1400W and at most would run for ~10 minutes off 2x massive lipo packs (and yes, my planned build should be able to run the full ~10 minutes at roughly full power without overheating), anymore then this would be a bit impractical for more then a 30 second burst but mostly due to shear size it would take for the optics.

Any details on the Vinh light? Curious how he is cooling it. It will be producing about the same amount of heat as a space heater, heat gun or microwave.

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5 - Nichia 219C 90+ CRI - Latticebright "XM-L" - XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5 - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Wed, 03/01/2017 - 21:45

#21

zak.wilson

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XHP70s are easier to drive from Li-ions than most COBs, and I imagine he has a bunch of XHP70s just sitting around anyway. I don’t think practicality was a concern – he probably just wanted to be able to say “100,000 lumens”.

I prefer practical lights too, and nice color over raw output, hence the Nichias.

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 22:08

#22

clemence

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Texas_Ace wrote:
zak.wilson wrote:
Quote:
this is roughly the equivalent of a 8x XHP50 SRK making 17,000 lumens in the flashlight world

Did you see what Vinh just did with an Acebeam X65 and 28 XHP70s? No, that wasn’t a typo. Twenty eight XHP70s.

I don’t pay attention to him myself.

I will admit that I am bummed he was the first to make a true 100k lumen flashlight. I have actually been working on a setup that should do this for this years OL scratch build contest.

Seeing as 100k lumens would be around ~1200-1400W and at most would run for ~10 minutes off 2x massive lipo packs (and yes, my planned build should be able to run the full ~10 minutes at roughly full power without overheating), anymore then this would be a bit impractical for more then a 30 second burst but mostly due to shear size it would take for the optics.

Any details on the Vinh light? Curious how he is cooling it. It will be producing about the same amount of heat as a space heater, heat gun or microwave.

Yup, impracticality detected. Great show-off light though…
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430717-X65vn2870-100-000-Lumen-Light

—

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Wed, 03/01/2017 - 22:11

#23

Enderman

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What’s the diameter of the die?

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Thu, 03/02/2017 - 09:18

#24

Texas_Ace

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clemence wrote:
Yup, impracticality detected. Great show-off light though… http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430717-X65vn2870-100-000-Lumen-Light

Hmmm, based on that picture he is pushing things very close to the limits at 100k lumens. I saw that he said it was a test rig but still, it appears he is driving them off of 18650 cells.

Long story short I would love to know how many 18650’s he is using and how they are setup.

—

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5 - Nichia 219C 90+ CRI - Latticebright "XM-L" - XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5 - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Thu, 03/02/2017 - 09:30

#25

clemence

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Enderman wrote:
What’s the diameter of the die?

Haven’t measure it yet. Bigger than 219C, smaller than XPL for sure

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Mon, 07/31/2017 - 11:46

#26

Wieselflinkpro

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Has someone testet them in a parallel triple in direct drive? Will they survive?

Mon, 07/31/2017 - 12:08

#27

Texas_Ace

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I built a “mega-M6” with 12 of these 319A 5000k 80CRI. They work great and have a great beam and color, output is good as well, although not quite up to XP-L levels. The Low VF means that they will pull a lot of power though, so watch out if using an FET driver.

You can see it here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54945

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