FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

13665 posts / 0 new
Last post
zak.wilson
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 09/29/2014 - 14:27
Posts: 1011
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
zak.wilson wrote:
A CRI of 70 is 6 times as much color error as CRI of 95,

Well…. okay, but by that logic a CRI of 95 has an infinite amount of color error compared to an incandescent light (CRI 100).

But in real-world use…?

That’s true: the ratio isn’t a big deal when the absolute difference is small. That said, I’ve used a number of lights with nice tint and low (70ish) CRI, like the Klarus G30 with a 5000K MT-G2, the FW3A in 7A, and an Oveready BOSS with 4000K XP-L HIs (unknown bin, but rosy looking on a white wall). I notice when I use them outdoors. To me, it’s not subtle. I notice as soon as I illuminate most anything natural.

I haven’t done any objective tests of object identification/differentiation, but I do think it makes a significant difference. That’s not to say nothing else matters – something with horrible tint, or a rainbow would look like crap and hinder object identification even if it technically had high CRI. I have 219Bs in my FW3A for a reason.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

saypat
saypat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 hours ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 20:32
Posts: 3579
Location: Calif

blue one for me

MKayze
MKayze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 days ago
Joined: 05/20/2019 - 12:02
Posts: 38
Location: San Diego, CA
treellama wrote:
You can configure a stepped ramp with three levels, and set the floor/ceiling wherever you like.

Thank you.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10654
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
zak.wilson wrote:
I’ve used a number of lights with nice tint and low (70ish) CRI, … rosy looking on a white wall… I notice when I use them outdoors. To me, it’s not subtle. I notice as soon as I illuminate most anything natural.

I was curious so I went out for a bit of a tint safari with a XP-L HI 3D and Nichia 219B. I found that virtually everything outdoors looked pretty much identical under both beams, but indoors I spotted three things where the colors were visibly different — a painted white wall, stained wood, and some magenta bed sheets.

These were the worst cases I could find. They seem to hit exactly on the shades where the Cree emitter falls short. Most things, though, had little to no difference.

Left: 219B, Right: XP-L HI 3D

Left: 219B, Right: XP-L HI 3D

If I switch from a FW3A to another XP-L HI light, the differences are smaller. I think the bin used in the FW3A may have been the one with the worst tint and most lumens, while some other lights may have prioritized tint more.

Regardless, even this relatively bad XP-L HI still looks better than the SST-20 lights I’ve tried so far. Here’s the same thing, but the light on the right is SST-20 95CRI this time:

Despite appearances, the stained wood is not, in fact, green. That’s just the high duv distorting the colors. And it’s why I tend to prioritize duv over CRI. The green beam on the right has the highest CRI of anything shown here, but it also has the worst tint.

Note: I don’t know how the FW3A SST-20 will look. I don’t have one yet. This pic is a different SST-20 light.

Note 2: No, there probably won’t be a 219B FW3A, because the 219B has been mostly out of production for years. It would be cool though.

timbo114
timbo114's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/21/2014 - 14:24
Posts: 404
Location: On a lake in SW PA

Wow that SST green is fugly!
Seriously, it’s tough to be a 219B – my all time fav for CRI

Geuzzz
Geuzzz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 5 sec ago
Joined: 10/25/2015 - 10:27
Posts: 1384
Location: Netherlands

Some people notice some don’t . I am totally with Zak on this one.

Outdoors, especially when you try to distinguish colours and to estimate depth, the hi cri really shows.
It’s why I always take a hi cri with me when I go running after sunset.

NancySinatra
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 days ago
Joined: 06/14/2019 - 03:10
Posts: 3

I want to buy one. This sounds great! Thanks

Lick
Lick's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 10/19/2015 - 14:53
Posts: 243

TK, what CRI or color temp is the SST20?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10654
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Lick wrote:

TK, what CRI or color temp is the SST20?

That pic is showing ~4500K next to ~4000K.

xevious
xevious's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/27/2013 - 21:55
Posts: 1877
Location: Hoboken, NJ USA

ToyKeeper wrote:
Despite appearances, the stained wood is not, in fact, green. That’s just the high duv distorting the colors. And it’s why I tend to prioritize duv over CRI. The green beam on the right has the highest CRI of anything shown here, but it also has the worst tint.

Note: I don’t know how the FW3A SST-20 will look. I don’t have one yet. This pic is a different SST-20 light.

Note 2: No, there probably won’t be a 219B FW3A, because the 219B has been mostly out of production for years. It would be cool though.


According to RobertB, a weak Lee minus eight correction filter helps reduce the green on the 3D. His beam shots earlier on look terrific. Have you tried using any correction filters?
nick779
nick779's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2018 - 15:46
Posts: 453
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

ToyKeeper wrote:
Here’s the same thing, but the light on the right is SST-20 95CRI this time: Despite appearances, the stained wood is not, in fact, green. That’s just the high duv distorting the colors. And it’s why I tend to prioritize duv over CRI. The green beam on the right has the highest CRI of anything shown here, but it also has the worst tint.

 


That SST-20 is Sick

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17760
Location: Amsterdam

Please do not value tint pics so much, they are always off and there is always someone who bases opinions and even buying decisions on tint pictures, which is silly. No SST-20 4000K 95 CRI I have ever seen in reality looks remotely so green.
(and this is not because I prioritise CRI over tint Silly )

raccoon city
raccoon city's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 10/06/2010 - 02:35
Posts: 16016
Location: रॅकून सिटी Palm Desert CA USA

djozz wrote:

Please do not value tint pics so much, they are always off and there is always someone who bases opinions and even buying decisions on tint pictures, which is silly. No SST-20 4000K 95 CRI I have ever seen in reality looks remotely so green. 
(and this is not because I prioritise CRI over tint Silly )

Should I believe you or my lying eyes?

Klayking
Klayking's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/17/2018 - 09:54
Posts: 155
Location: England

Following the CRI discussions here, I also ran a few tests of my own. I pitted two Convoy S2+ flashlights against each other, the only difference being the emitters used (XP-L HI 4000K vs SST-20 4000K).

On a white wall, the tint of the XP-L HI was far pinker than the green SST-20. This isn’t so much a real-world concern however, so I decided to ignore the differences in tint and focus on the CRI aspects of each emitter.

I took the flashlights outdoors last night and let them rip across a field. Both emitters have a very similar amout of throw in the S2+, I’d say around 250m, so it is a pretty fair comparison. With all the grenery, tint wasn’t much of a concern any more, so I focused on trying to make out details in the treeline at roughly 100m and 200m distances. I supposedly have perfect eyesight, but I’m sad to say that I couldn’t see a bit of difference between the two, except for maybe the greener SST-20 looking a negligible shade cooler than the pinker XP-L HI. When I walked right up to the trees, the SST-20 did make the tree trunks look a little bit more saturated in colour, but honestly the difference was pretty minor. The XP-L HI’s 70 CRI was still more than enough to easily distinguish colours. No issues spotting where the branches ended and the leaves began. Nothing looked particularly washed out in comparison to the higher CRI emitter. A bright red car that I passed on the way back was probably the biggest difference I spotted. It looked fine under the XP-L HI, but popped a little more under the SST-20’s high CRI light.

It’s odd why some people’s eyes are really sensitive to CRI, and others’ aren’t so much. Don’t get me wrong, if all SST-20s had the same great tints as most XP-L HI emitters then I’d pick them as a favourite, but I just don’t feel that the efficiency, heat and tint tradeoffs are worth it for a difference I barely percieve in real world usage.

It’ll be interesting to hear the results if someone more CRI sensitive than I were to perform a similar test. Smile

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

/\ .. Where did the picture come from??

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

acab
acab's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 05/29/2019 - 16:30
Posts: 172

they look great!

PBWilson
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 3 hours ago
Joined: 08/24/2016 - 17:49
Posts: 1035
Location: Rochester, NY

That sand/oiled bronze/gold color is fantastic!

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17760
Location: Amsterdam

PBWilson wrote:
That sand/oiled bronze/gold color is fantastic!

yes, i wish my grey ones were that colour. Unfortunately a different colour is not enough for me to buy more FW3A’s Sad
SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

teacher wrote:
*/\* .. Where did the picture come from??

I think that here at BLF most just forget that this is a collaboration between TLF and BLF.

So there are efectively TWO comunities ACTIVE for this flashlight.

TLF is even holding a "official" poll on wich collor it should be! One can only choose two colors for fisrt run ...

Seems that the communication is one direction these days?

Beer

 

- SAM -

xevious
xevious's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/27/2013 - 21:55
Posts: 1877
Location: Hoboken, NJ USA

PBWilson wrote:
That sand/oiled bronze/gold color is fantastic!

Agreed. That one is a winner in my eyes. I like the others but I don’t see them having as much “timelessness” as the bronze.
SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

xevious wrote:
PBWilson wrote:
That sand/oiled bronze/gold color is fantastic!
Agreed. That one is a winner in my eyes. I like the others but I don't see them having as much "timelessness" as the bronze.

Blue got the most votes on TLF, next is a tie for olive and white ...

There will also be a 100 pieces limited run of a 'special purple ToyKeeper version'!

Wonder how they are going to do that with orders coming from TLF, BLF, Neals Deals and Max Deals, ...!?

Surely hoping TK is getting one!

Beer

 

- SAM -

xevious
xevious's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/27/2013 - 21:55
Posts: 1877
Location: Hoboken, NJ USA

Klayking wrote:
Following the CRI discussions here, I also ran a few tests of my own. I pitted two Convoy S2+ flashlights against each other, the only difference being the emitters used (XP-L HI 4000K vs SST-20 4000K).

On a white wall, the tint of the XP-L HI was far pinker than the green SST-20. This isn’t so much a real-world concern however, so I decided to ignore the differences in tint and focus on the CRI aspects of each emitter.

I took the flashlights outdoors last night and let them rip across a field. Both emitters have a very similar amout of throw in the S2+, I’d say around 250m, so it is a pretty fair comparison. With all the grenery, tint wasn’t much of a concern any more, so I focused on trying to make out details in the treeline at roughly 100m and 200m distances. I supposedly have perfect eyesight, but I’m sad to say that I couldn’t see a bit of difference between the two, except for maybe the greener SST-20 looking a negligible shade cooler than the pinker XP-L HI. When I walked right up to the trees, the SST-20 did make the tree trunks look a little bit more saturated in colour, but honestly the difference was pretty minor. The XP-L HI’s 70 CRI was still more than enough to easily distinguish colours. No issues spotting where the branches ended and the leaves began. Nothing looked particularly washed out in comparison to the higher CRI emitter. A bright red car that I passed on the way back was probably the biggest difference I spotted. It looked fine under the XP-L HI, but popped a little more under the SST-20’s high CRI light.

It’s odd why some people’s eyes are really sensitive to CRI, and others’ aren’t so much. Don’t get me wrong, if all SST-20s had the same great tints as most XP-L HI emitters then I’d pick them as a favourite, but I just don’t feel that the efficiency, heat and tint tradeoffs are worth it for a difference I barely percieve in real world usage.

It’ll be interesting to hear the results if someone more CRI sensitive than I were to perform a similar test. Smile


I can’t recall the source unfortunately, but some years back I’d read a medical paper (geared toward the lay person) about the human eye and differences from person to person. Essentially, we all see color in the same way, except that some people suffer color loss (blindness)—either fully or partially by segments of the spectrum. So it may be possible for some people to perceive saturation a little differently, but the tint doesn’t change. However, the greatest disparity is the brain—how we process color. It is rather subjective by experience. This “skews” the input from the optical sensory organ. And also, the perception of color will vary depending upon taste. Some people may be put off by some colors that makes them more noticeable, while there will be some colors with a more neutral effect (no emotional impact one way or another). I don’t know if that is inclusive of “CRI sensitivity”. And lastly of course, is how the brain interprets tints when multiple ones are visible. This is why one tint can be OK and then look lousy when it’s next to another. Anyway, it all comes back to one thing: subjectivity.

Last but not least is the CCD sensitivity, color and whiteness balance of the camera taking the beam shot photos. That also complicates perception. Despite all this, the beam shots are most useful with simultaneous comparative display, so the relative color is captured under the same circumstances.

Scallywag
Scallywag's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 01/11/2018 - 22:23
Posts: 1945
Location: Ohio, United States

How do I reserve myself one of the limited edition purples?


Honestly, I really like all the colors. The white looks quite good, and reminds me of a few other lights in white that I’ve quite liked. The “sand/oiled bronze/gold” is very nice. And blue is just plain popular.


Just last night, someone sent me this about my love of purple:


xevious
xevious's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/27/2013 - 21:55
Posts: 1877
Location: Hoboken, NJ USA

Prince explained the meaning of “Purple Rain” as follows: “When there’s blood in the sky – red and blue = purple… purple rain pertains to the end of the world and being with the one you love and letting your faith/god guide you through the purple rain.”

SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

Scallywag wrote:

How do I reserve myself one of the limited edition purples?

Honestly, I really like all the colors. The white looks quite good, and reminds me of a few other lights in white that I've quite liked. The "sand/oiled bronze/gold" is very nice. And blue is just plain popular.

Just last night, someone sent me this about my love of purple:

!{height:711px; width:400px}https://i.imgur.com/Kv3BwdX.jpg!:https://i.imgur.com/Kv3BwdX.jpg

I don't think you can and that wouldn't be fair at all.

Sounds logical to me that only TK is in the position to 'reserve' a limited purple piece for herself (she also has the connections)

Maybe ask her ...

 

- SAM -

SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

xevious wrote:
Prince explained the meaning of "Purple Rain" as follows: "When there's blood in the sky – red and blue = purple... purple rain pertains to the end of the world and being with the one you love and letting your faith/god guide you through the purple rain."

Off Topic: For China it means spiritual awareness, physical and mental healing, hence strength, abundance, red purple brings luck and fame. Purple (紫; zǐ) refers to the North Star (Polaris), which in ancient China was called the Ziwei Star, the North Star was in traditional Chinese astrology the abode of the Celestial Emperor. (see also: Purple Forbidden City).

Big Smile

- SAM -

Neal
Neal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 242
Location: China
SamHaLeKe wrote:

xevious wrote:
Prince explained the meaning of “Purple Rain” as follows: “When there’s blood in the sky – red and blue = purple… purple rain pertains to the end of the world and being with the one you love and letting your faith/god guide you through the purple rain.”

Off Topic: For China it means spiritual awareness, physical and mental healing, hence strength, abundance, red purple brings luck and fame. Purple (紫; zǐ) refers to the North Star (Polaris), which in ancient China was called the Ziwei Star, the North Star was in traditional Chinese astrology the abode of the Celestial Emperor. (see also: Purple Forbidden City).


Big Smile


- SAM -

exactly!

SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

Neal wrote:
SamHaLeKe wrote:

xevious wrote:
Prince explained the meaning of "Purple Rain" as follows: "When there's blood in the sky – red and blue = purple... purple rain pertains to the end of the world and being with the one you love and letting your faith/god guide you through the purple rain."

Off Topic: For China it means spiritual awareness, physical and mental healing, hence strength, abundance, red purple brings luck and fame. Purple (紫; zǐ) refers to the North Star (Polaris), which in ancient China was called the Ziwei Star, the North Star was in traditional Chinese astrology the abode of the Celestial Emperor. (see also: Purple Forbidden City).

Big Smile

- SAM -

exactly!

欢聚一堂

生意兴隆

Neal
Neal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2014 - 01:55
Posts: 242
Location: China
SamHaLeKe wrote:

teacher wrote:
/\ .. Where did the picture come from??

I think that here at BLF most just forget that this is a collaboration between TLF and BLF.


So there are efectively TWO comunities ACTIVE for this flashlight.


TLF is even holding a “official” poll on wich collor it should be! One can only choose two colors for fisrt run …


Seems that the communication is one direction these days?


Beer


 


- SAM -

i make a poll in BLF,
so let’s choose which color we make.

Link: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67577#comment-1516550

SamHaLeKe
SamHaLeKe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 hours ago
Joined: 01/18/2016 - 18:16
Posts: 154

Neal wrote:
SamHaLeKe wrote:

teacher wrote:
*/\* .. Where did the picture come from??

I think that here at BLF most just forget that this is a collaboration between TLF and BLF.

So there are efectively TWO comunities ACTIVE for this flashlight.

TLF is even holding a "official" poll on wich collor it should be! One can only choose two colors for fisrt run ...

Seems that the communication is one direction these days?

Beer

 

- SAM -

i make a poll in BLF, so let's choose which color we make. Link: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67577#comment-1516550 !https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0031/0155/6806/files/colors.7.jpg?280!

 

Thank you Neal Thumbs Up

Edit: if possible, please make sure all future FW3A versions ship with latest Unduril as (next to the design) It's The Purple Star of this flashlight Big Smile

Pages