ToyKeeper wrote:

A sample of the new optic showed up today and I measured it. It seems to have no effect on total lumens, but the candelas are reduced to about 79% of the original 10511+glass design. It is more floody than 10511, but not quite as floody as 10508.

The new optic significantly reduces tint changes in different parts of the beam, so it looks like it’s a single color.

A first-batch FW3A weighs 51.9 g, while the new sample weighs 51.3 g. Not sure how much variance there is, but the new optic seems to eliminate about half a gram.

I haven’t tested waterproofing or heat tolerance or scratch resistance.

The MCPCB hasn’t changed, so Carclo optics should still fit. But the new optic replaces both the old optic and the glass, so people would need to buy a glass lens to install a standard Carclo optic. I’m not sure where to get a plain glass lens of the right size, or where the best places are to buy a 10511 optic, so links would probably help.

TK, were you able to see if there were any other quiet changes, like to the driver or switch assembly?

In the midst of all the concerned discussion, I do want to thank Neal for bringing the change to our attention. I hope Lumintop listens to the feedback he has collected.

zak.wilson wrote:

The thing is, this is not a product Lumintop designed themselves. If Lumintop wants to change the design of say… the Tool AA, that’s fine as long as they don’t describe the old one to customers and send the new one.

Instead of the Tool AA, you could have mentioned the Tool AAA, advertised as available with a 219B emitter, but as far as I know, has actually been shipping with a 219C (although like the FW3A, reported to be a decent tinted one), for over a year:
http://www.lumintop.com/tool-ti.html

contactcr wrote:

BLF A6 – actually got better with time (double springs)
BLF Q8 – long term reliable product (Sofirn gave us new LED options too)
FW3A – 1 month in and ?

zak.wilson wrote:

Maybe Thorfire/Sofirn would be interested in a group buy for a popular, relatively easy to manufacture design… they even have LH351Ds.

Different optic and code no longer valid, is that correct?

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

Lucky me, bought in time.
Mike

iamlucky13 wrote:

In the midst of all the concerned discussion, I do want to thank Neal for bringing the change to our attention. I hope Lumintop listens to the feedback he has collection (collected).

+1…. … Thank you Neal!!

teacher wrote:

iamlucky13 wrote:

In the midst of all the concerned discussion, I do want to thank Neal for bringing the change to our attention. I hope Lumintop listens to the feedback he has collection (collected).

+1…. … Thank you Neal!! .

Yes, definitely. Thank you, Neal, for telling us about the change!

Well, with all of this in mind, I’ll just go get an Emisar D4/FF E07 instead.

Thank you indeed, Neal. Very nice of you to let us know about the change.

iamlucky13 wrote:

the Tool AAA, advertised as available with a 219B emitter, but as far as I know, has actually been shipping with a 219C (although like the FW3A, reported to be a decent tinted one)

Yep,thanks for the heads up Neal.
So I order the SST-20 with a turboglow gasket that fits FW3A and the carlco 105xx optic. What’s going to work and what’s not going to work? I really do want the ar coated lens and the original optic.

I suppose you could get the sapphire lens available on Neal’s site, but, in my opinion, sapphire is not the best material for a flashlight lens.

Neal wrote:

Lumintop change the optics, The beam is pretty though. smooth, and it has good color consistency from Selene's sample. They already assembly to the FW3A, so if some one not accept this, let me know. I also have "10507 optics and sapphire lens in sell. ":https://www.nealsgadgets.com/search?type=product&q=FW3A

Hi Neal, jus to let you know I don't accept this for my ordered copper version (order 5240) and would rather have the original Carclo Optics 10511 with AR Coated Glass (just like the original version please), as it was stated on your website when making the order. Thank you!

- SAM -

I feel badly for Neal. Talk about “bait and switch”… it was done to him first and foremost. No heads up / warning? He just gets a light to discover the change. Mind you, ToyKeeper did alert us to the possibility of an optic change, which many of us here reacted to with “Please, NO!”. Then, less than 2 weeks later, this happens.

Excellent point made about Lumintop not having to do any of the design engineering for this light. They were given the blueprints already complete and probably even all the supplier sources lined up. Naturally, they make less money because of the design licensing. But hey… you get paid for your efforts, right?

I also think it’s in very poor form for Lumintop to have done this. I really don’t see the cost advantage here, given the volume. This is a “niche” flashlight. It’s not even broken out into mainstream promotion yet. If they make just a thousand dollars or so more profit over the course of the production, that’s not really enough to warrant this change, by cheapening the light.

They need to understand that because this was a BLF project initiative, there’s a community behind it that is sensitive to changes. Acknowledge this mistake.

EDIT: I see Neal is offering parts, thankfully. The optic price isn’t bad, but with glass it adds up to another $7.50 USD. A bit much… but at least it means the original design is still in reach.

I’ll cherish my original release FW3A and look forward to the next BLF project… hopefully not contracted out to Lumintop. After all, remember all the QC issues we faced. Lumintop was really slipshod on this, compared to other makers.

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

Neal wrote:

I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this. Give me some time now.

Thanks Neal, we all appreciate it!

- SAM -

I feel bad for Neal that he is in the middle of this. He is trying to do the right thing, and it may cost him sales. It is not fair to him, and he is probably not happy about it, just like us.

Edit: xevious, your post came in just before mine, and it seems we agree.

Firelight2 wrote:

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

The whole light is theirs. They took liberties with the LEDs, clip, anodizing, etc. Just because they can doesn’t mean they should.

Firelight2 wrote:

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

This was not done after the group buy. I just ordered 5 – sst20’s when they became available as my group buy commitment (as was promised) and now they will have a crap optic

Yes, after two years in the making, the cheapening changes began in less than two months. I don’t see it as fair, but others may see it differently.

Definitely don’t want this change and especially on my copper that I ordered.

Firelight2 wrote:

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

So I ordered my second FW3A with SST-20 emitters during the group buy (I used the code I was originally sent).

Will it come with the original setup OR the new plastic one? Does anyone know for sure?

SamHaLeKe wrote:

Hi Neal, jus to let you know I don't accept this for my ordered copper version (order 5240) and would rather have the original Carclo Optics 10511 with AR Coated Glass (just like the original version please). Thank you!

 

- SAM -

Same here. My order was for an Aluminum SST-20 (Order #5214 06/13/2019).  Need the Carclo Optic and Glass Lens. That is what the website showed and what I AM expecting. 

I’m sorry for the issues you have to put up with from Lumintop. You are in a bad place with us. Lumintop should make it right. Thanks for the heads up too !

@PBWilson, probably not, at least until someone receives one.

Does anyone remember the good ol’ days, when all we worried about was a bunny on our switch cap?

sad to see Lumintop save on parts to make more profit

I mentioned it before – if the new optic was discussed before the SST20 model came out, with a, “Hey, all the SST20 models will have this optic and as of x date so will all of them”, then fine. But you place an order with the assumption that the only change will be the emitters, and then a few days later get told that there’s a difference…

If we can be assured that all preorders will have the original optic setup, then I’ll stay. If not, I’m out.

cabfrank wrote:

Does anyone remember the good ol’ days, when all we worried about was a bunny on our switch cap?

Firelight2 wrote:

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

And yeah, after the Group Buy is over….. they are free to change, cheapen, or screw it up any way they desire; as stupid & sad as that may be. .

“Screw it up…stupid & sad…”

Yep.

I guess Lumintop quickly forgot how much effort and development was put in to this project, at no cost to them.

And, if CRX says something is harder to fix, it surely doesn’t bode well for most of the rest of us.