Any interest in DIY battery tab welder?

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aarone
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Any interest in DIY battery tab welder?

I was thinking of getting some PCBs produced and to solder them. Since the fabricator for PCBs has quantities in multiples of 5 I’m going to have more PCBs than I personally need. I was wondering if there’d be any interest in the community for either a pair of these excess boards to assemble yourself or even ones I would assemble.

They’d be based on this intractable http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Arduino-Battery-Spot-Welder/

I figured I would ask in case anyone would be interested.

MtnDon
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Interesting, but I have only taken packs apart and have never wanted to make them or weld on tabs.

aarone
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I’ve been fixing my tool packs as of late and then when I saw this post in the pulled from the recycle bin thread it made me do some research.

Not really a fan of soldering right to the cells.

RobertB
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I’d be interest in a welder powerful enough that can weld button top caps vs thin metal tabs. I don’t know if one like this could spot weld buttons or not

aarone
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Some people have reported that it does work on .3mm thickness material which is what the the button tops at fasttech look like

https://www.fasttech.com/p/2157805

Those are what you’re referring to right?

I might build one or two of these and I’m just down in NE Indiana so if I had to send one to someone to ‘borrow’ to test it with button tops I’d be open to that Smile I’m not going to ship a car battery though lol

The boards I’m getting go up to 1000A of welding current where that ebay one goes up to 800A so the DIY one would be more powerful

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aarone wrote:
Some people have reported that it does work on .3mm thickness material which is what the the button tops at fasttech look like

https://www.fasttech.com/p/2157805

Those are what you’re referring to right?

I might build one or two of these and I’m just down in NE Indiana so if I had to send one to someone to ‘borrow’ to test it with button tops I’d be open to that Smile I’m not going to ship a car battery though lol

The boards I’m getting go up to 1000A of welding current where that ebay one goes up to 800A so the DIY one would be more powerful

Yes, I bought a bunch of those caps and gaskets from FT. The flat area measures .4mm

Lazy-R-us
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I’m very interested. I have seen that instructable before and thought about it myself. The creator has a website in the EU selling kits and some of the ‘custom’ parts.

One thing that has held me back is my confidence in getting the current version and the right BOM ordered. The ‘ible claims there has been a new rev of the board this month.

Lazy-R-us

aarone
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Lazy-R-us wrote:
I’m very interested. I have seen that instructable before and thought about it myself. The creator has a website in the EU selling kits and some of the ‘custom’ parts.

One thing that has held me back is my confidence in getting the current version and the right BOM ordered. The ‘ible claims there has been a new rev of the board this month.

I did order the newest 2.2 version boards. I’ll keep this thread updated with progress. It’ll be 20 or so days for the fab in China to make the PCBs and them to get here via HK Post (largest delay is the shipping time).

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Man, I’m interested, but don’t have a lot of extra spending money right now! I actually have some batteries and a BMS that I bought to make a pack, and haven’t done it yet because I’m not sure soldering the tabs is a good idea for high draw battery power tools.

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dekozn
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Are you talking bout just the pcbs or the whole BOM? I am interested in the pcb and the alu profiles. But depending from where you live it might be cheaper for me to order in EU.

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aarone
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dekozn wrote:
Are you talking bout just the pcbs or the whole BOM? I am interested in the pcb and the alu profiles. But depending from where you live it might be cheaper for me to order in EU.

Could really do either. I’m more likely to do more just bare boards than whole BOM sets.
If you’re in the EU it might be better for you to order right from the guys shop who did the instructable

https://malectrics.eu/

For us in the US it might be better for us to just the BOM stuff locally and not worry about currency conversion/euro value and international shipping

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i could use a board or 2

mattlward
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I would be very interested in one of these units. I could build my own, given a BOM. Let me know, what the plan is.

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aarone
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I’m working on a BOM at mouser which I think I have basically complete. I’ll share it once I assemble one to make sure everything is correct.

dekozn
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aarone wrote:

Could really do either. I’m more likely to do more just bare boards than whole BOM sets.
If you’re in the EU it might be better for you to order right from the guys shop who did the instructable

https://malectrics.eu/

For us in the US it might be better for us to just the BOM stuff locally and not worry about currency conversion/euro value and international shipping


Thanks, I’ll have look and ask around in my circle if more are interested and just order in the EU…

Idiot proofing something only creates improved idiots.

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PeterRamish wrote:
Ask yourself. ‘ DO I HAVE THE NECESSARY SET UP HERE IN MY DIY HOBBY SHOP TO PRETEND I CAN WORK IN THAT WORLD?”

I am sure the answer is NO !

Unno. When I used to spot-weld sub-C NiCd cells, I’d take a thin strip of metal, put a dimple in it where I’d want the weld to be, securely have one contact go right to the cell, and the other end to the tin strip. Carefully lower it down into place, and pouf!, the arc would weld that critter tight.

Used a few of beefy caps, like 80,000µF power-supply caps with screw terminals, in parallel, with ~14ga wire coming together at the “probes”.

Was enough to “stick” a screwdriver to whatever it’d touch, so…

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PeterRamish wrote:
The subject of welding is very complex and not really well suited to DIY efforts. Material science has fully examined subjects of this type. There are years and thousands of research man hours involved.

Maybe not for critical applications, but for connection a few batteries a DIY effort is fine (It is easy to test if the welding works and is solid enough).
The cheap Chine spot welder and the DIY design, will probably work about the same and the DIY design may last longer.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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Lightbringer wrote:
PeterRamish wrote:
Ask yourself. ‘ DO I HAVE THE NECESSARY SET UP HERE IN MY DIY HOBBY SHOP TO PRETEND I CAN WORK IN THAT WORLD?”

I am sure the answer is NO !

Unno. When I used to spot-weld sub-C NiCd cells, I’d take a thin strip of metal, put a dimple in it where I’d want the weld to be, securely have one contact go right to the cell, and the other end to the tin strip. Carefully lower it down into place, and pouf!, the arc would weld that critter tight.

Used a few of beefy caps, like 80,000µF power-supply caps with screw terminals, in parallel, with ~14ga wire coming together at the “probes”.

Was enough to “stick” a screwdriver to whatever it’d touch, so…

Exactly, we aren’t building automobiles or aircraft here. It’s not rocket science to spot weld a tab on a battery.

Lazy-R-us
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I don’t think any of us are proposing to use this for high precision manufacturing of battery packs. Welding on button tops, or building a multi cell battery pack is closer to the truth. Perhaps even rebuilding a cordless tool battery.

The instructable linked has a video that shows the build process. I shall attempt to link it here que’ed up to the place where he starts testing it.

Be forewarned, you may want to have your safety glasses on before clicking the link.

Lazy-R-us

aarone
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^ Peter, watch that video and realize the cells remain wrapped. There’s also multiple welds on each cell on each tab. So the likelihood that a single tab would have 4+ welds fail for the tab to come completely loose and short something is not going to happen I dare say.

Lazy-R-us wrote:
Be forewarned, you may want to have your safety glasses on before clicking the link.

Engage safety squints as some might say…

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A piece of cake to solder with Bi50Sn18Pb32, a quite similar alloy to Rose's metal.

 

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PeterRamish wrote:
RobertB wrote:

Exactly, we aren’t building automobiles or aircraft here. It’s not rocket science to spot weld a tab on a battery.

With your permission, I am going to play the devils advocate just for a moment longer. —> The risk if the button becomes dislodged is of course potentially a catastrophic failure mode (direct battery short).. Additionally I might not be clear step by step on exactly how you propose the welding process works in actual practice on an 18650, are you unwrapping the cell? How far is your dis assembly to gain access for the proposed welding process? How do you gain access to the bottom of the existing flat tab to support the arm of the welding machine? Is the CID area of the cell exposed during any of this process and then the mechanical and electrical attachments re established after the welding process? I would be very interested to see when you all get this going, I hope someone makes a close up video of the process as typically applied to a cell.

Well, it takes no precision or much thought process.

Target cell

Button

Place button on top of cell and hit the flats with the spot welder

Place cardboard gasket on top and clear shrink wrap

Shrink the wrap with a heat gun, and your done

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PeterRamish wrote:
Thanks, -I’ll sign clear now. Hope no one was offended by my point of view.

Not me.

Fwiw, when I’d spot-weld sub-Cs, I’d do it with the cells essentially side-by-side, then fold then over to be coaxial (ie, a battery “stick”). So having a mil-spec weld wasn’t necessary, as they’d be just lying in a trench or rack and not get jiggled around too much. Soldering was pure Hell, but a quick spot-weld made things lots easier.

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Ha, cute!

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I built a mot welder last year. I control it wth a footswitch to a relay. Most of the time it works well but I have a twitchy foot Facepalm

I’ve been trying to think of a way to do a timed double pulse. Wonder if I could use the timing part of the circuit. Hmm?

aarone
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LightRider wrote:
I built a mot welder last year. I control it wth a footswitch to a relay. Most of the time it works well but I have a twitchy foot Facepalm

I’ve been trying to think of a way to do a timed double pulse. Wonder if I could use the timing part of the circuit. Hmm?

The version of the board I ordered has an auto pulse feature which would require no use of a foot switch. It sees both probes are in place on the strip, waits 2 seconds, and then pulses the welder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxSqv1ecJ0

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Do you think the auto pulse could control my relay instead of the mosfets? Not sure if the relay would be responsive enough. I’m assuming not…

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RobertB wrote:
PeterRamish wrote:
RobertB wrote:

Exactly, we aren’t building automobiles or aircraft here. It’s not rocket science to spot weld a tab on a battery.

With your permission, I am going to play the devils advocate just for a moment longer. —> The risk if the button becomes dislodged is of course potentially a catastrophic failure mode (direct battery short).. Additionally I might not be clear step by step on exactly how you propose the welding process works in actual practice on an 18650, are you unwrapping the cell? How far is your dis assembly to gain access for the proposed welding process? How do you gain access to the bottom of the existing flat tab to support the arm of the welding machine? Is the CID area of the cell exposed during any of this process and then the mechanical and electrical attachments re established after the welding process? I would be very interested to see when you all get this going, I hope someone makes a close up video of the process as typically applied to a cell.

Well, it takes no precision or much thought process.

Target cell

Button

Place button on top of cell and hit the flats with the spot welder

Place cardboard gasket on top and clear shrink wrap

Shrink the wrap with a heat gun, and your done

!{width:40%}http://i.imgur.com/uluwqVM.jpg!

i have a question.everybody advice me. please.
if i don’t spot welder. but i Place button on top of cell only.Will it works?

and 2nd choice
if i use little magnet place between button and flat cell .Will it works?

DavidEF
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delete wrote:
i have a question.everybody advice me. please.
if i don’t spot welder. but i Place button on top of cell only.Will it works?

and 2nd choice
if i use little magnet place between button and flat cell .Will it works?


  1. It will possibly work for low drain applications where there is a strong spring to hold it in place, and the button top never gets any side load (twisting).
  2. AFAIK, a magnet won’t do any good, as the button top is non-magnetic material. (I’m likely wrong about this, though.)

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RobertB
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DavidEF wrote:
delete wrote:
i have a question.everybody advice me. please.
if i don’t spot welder. but i Place button on top of cell only.Will it works?

and 2nd choice
if i use little magnet place between button and flat cell .Will it works?


  1. It will possibly work for low drain applications where there is a strong spring to hold it in place, and the button top never gets any side load (twisting).
  2. AFAIK, a magnet won’t do any good, as the button top is non-magnetic material. (I’m likely wrong about this, though.)

No, you’re right about that. At least the buttons I have are non-magnetic.

Jensen567
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For anyone wondering, professional battery spot welders (resistance welders) use the two probes side by side, not top and bottom like a traditional spot welder. So no need to access the underside of the flat top.

I have used some very high end Miyachi welders at work, the two copper electrode tips just sit side by side, how far apart depends on the type of cells, tab material, etc being welded.

Would love a simple setup like this DIY welder for home use on personal projects, and I see no reason a good weld couldn’t be made with something like this.

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