TK's Emisar D4 review

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Firelight2
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ven wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
Well, the Sanyo “B” cell has some 4200mAh and does around 10A, the “A” cell is around 3000mAh and does much more current. So I was thinking the high capacity B cell might be appropro

10a would help control the crazy heat a little(may get another 5 seconds!) but seriously 4200mah in the tank is super useful……………i like the idea!


Now we just need to convince International Outdoors to sell us some 20700 tubes. With knurling. Silly
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Happy belated DB

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Uh, well…. I got the D4 bored for the 20700. (first time to work on the lathe after surgery, it’s 104º in the shade, no air movement at the lathe at all)

Even using the Sanyo “B” cell it’s drawing 19.54A at the tail! Shocked

tocirahl
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In case anyone’s interested in more theory here, here’s a rough comparison of FET + 1 vs a FET + 8 + 1 driver (numbers from a quad 219C D240):

At 1000 lm:
1000lm / (300 lm / W) = 3.3W

FET + 1: Efficiency of 64 lm / W > 1000 lm / (64 lm / W) = 15.6W - 3.3W = 12.3W of waste heat FET + 8 + 1: Efficiency of 113 lm / W > 1000 lm / (130 lm / W) = 8.8W – 3.3W = 5.5W of waste heat

That’s LESS THAN HALF as much heat using a FET + 8 + 1 driver.

At 1400 lm:
1400 lm / (300 lm / W) = 4.7W

FET + 8 + 1: Efficiency of 82 lm / W ==> 1400 lm / (82 lm / W) = 17.1W – 4.7W = 12.4W of waste heat

If a FET + 1 driver was thermodynamically was stable at 1000 lm, then a FET + 8 + 1 driver should be stable at 1400 lm.

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DB Custom wrote:
Uh, well…. I got the D4 bored for the 20700. (first time to work on the lathe after surgery, it’s 104º in the shade, no air movement at the lathe at all)

Even using the Sanyo “B” cell it’s drawing 19.54A at the tail! Shocked

Any pictures of your setup on boring it? I recently got a lathe and need all the ideas I can get!

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Firelight2
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DB Custom wrote:
Uh, well…. I got the D4 bored for the 20700. (first time to work on the lathe after surgery, it’s 104º in the shade, no air movement at the lathe at all)

Even using the Sanyo “B” cell it’s drawing 19.54A at the tail! Shocked

Might need to customize the firmware. All excessive current problems could be easily solved if you could limit the maximum output to, say 70% max FET.

Even better would be if the user could manually set the max turbo setting, like can be done with the H17F.

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I hadn’t used my lathe for months, slipped 2 discs in March and pinched the radial nerve in my left arm, had surgery June 22 and am still under Dr.s orders …. I asked about operating the lathe and he cautioned me to watch for issue and stop short. That said, my lathe is in a 44 year old shop that’s attached to a barn, it’s filthy in there! As a photographer, my gear don’t go where the lathe is! lol Sorry.

Just used a boring bar and made small passes, kept it to what would just allow the Sanyo B cell to fit, Efest high discharge cells won’t go in it. I wasn’t thinking or I wouldn’t have started it. The longer cell needed a spacer between the tube and head. This removed tube contact from the driver, so I had to put solder blobs on the driver ground ring then file them to clear the fat cell. Also had to remove the spring from the driver. And then I had to address the tail cap, solder blobs around the ground ring so the tube would contact. The spring is pressed flat, it’s a very snug fit without going to greater measures. I made a copper spacer ring on the lathe so I have a shiny copper ring between the head and tube on a green D4. Smile

And as it so happens, the B cell I put in it for the 19.54A reading was at 78% charge level, so … charging it and will get a new reading, try to get a lumens reading, but am heading out to a rehearsal tonight for an event tomorrow… might be a couple of days before I can get back to readings…

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Once again I’m in a position of not understanding.
I charged the B cell up and tested with my bigger clamp meter, 12.92A at the tail. Tested again with my smaller Uni-T and got 12.32 (falling, hit on the cell) Then I stuck it in the light box for a reading of 3657 lumens at start, falling.

I have no idea where or why the previous 19.54A reading. Not sure how I could stuff that up, but there it is.

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Tixx wrote:
The lumens for the blink are one of the only things that bother me on this awesome light. I keep it manually locked out often and then in the middle of the night twist the bottom to have a pretty bright double flash in a dark room with eyes adjusted to the dark.

Sorry about that. I find it kind of nice sometimes and kind of annoying at other times. With no clear right answer, I left it as-is. It’s easy to change in the firmware though, if you want.

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raccoon city wrote:
Post #1,000!

I wasn’t really expecting this thread to hit four digits. It’s not a big long group project like the Q8; it’s just a review and a few days worth of development. Was planning for most of the discussion to happen in Hank’s D4 thread, but he was having difficulties with the Great Firewall of China and couldn’t post for a while.

I really appreciate the feedback everyone has given though. At least half the things I changed were because people made requests. Like, I hadn’t really considered adding a channel-switch blink, but it was a good idea that I find useful.

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DB Custom wrote:
Has anyone tried the Nichia 319 in this D4? Wondering too how 4 XP-E2 in green would work out? Too much power? Maybe if using the 18350 and avoiding turbo when a fresh cell is installed?

As it turns out, I’m in the middle of building a color quad light… but not with a FET. It’s using a dozen 7135 chips instead. It’s only 1A per emitter, but that should be plenty for my purposes.

I expect a FET might make magic smoke.

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maukka wrote:
Here’s just to verify what is obvious. Efficacy stays exactly the same on lower output within the 7135 range.

I’ve been meaning to measure that for, like, years. Thanks!

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tocirahl wrote:
Has anyone installed a TA Driver in one of these? I was thinking about it to significantly improve the efficiency of the medium modes considering how high Turbo is…

That’s kind of what the FW3A is about. The D4 might not have quite enough room (depth) for 7135 chips on the back side of the driver. It would be nice to have FET+N+1 instead of FET+1, but I find most of my use is on just the +1… so it’s mostly a theoretical upgrade for me.

I’m definitely not the type who goes through multiple 18650 cells in a single night. Usually it takes me at least a month per charge, even on 1xAA or 1×16340 lights.

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I require higher illumination levels TK. I, unfortunately, don’t have the extra acute night vision of a not-so-minor deity. Wink

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tocirahl wrote:
In case anyone’s interested in more theory here, here’s a rough comparison of FET + 1 vs a FET + 8 + 1 driver (numbers from a quad 219C D240):

At 1000 lm:
1000lm / (300 lm / W) = 3.3W

FET + 1: Efficiency of 64 lm / W > 1000 lm / (64 lm / W) = 15.6W - 3.3W = 12.3W of waste heat FET + 8 + 1: Efficiency of 113 lm / W > 1000 lm / (130 lm / W) = 8.8W – 3.3W = 5.5W of waste heat

That’s LESS THAN HALF as much heat using a FET + 8 + 1 driver.

At 1400 lm:
1400 lm / (300 lm / W) = 4.7W

FET + 8 + 1: Efficiency of 82 lm / W ==> 1400 lm / (82 lm / W) = 17.1W – 4.7W = 12.4W of waste heat

If a FET + 1 driver was thermodynamically was stable at 1000 lm, then a FET + 8 + 1 driver should be stable at 1400 lm.


Remind me where you got the numbers, 64 and 113 lm/W?
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Just received my grey nichia and wow. I’m new to the world of led flashlights and this covers a lot of firsts for me. First 18650 light, first quad, first pocket hot rod. This thing is amazing, it’s so bright it’s like having a little piece of the sun in your pocket – heat wise too.
It’s actually much smaller than I expected. I bought the 18500 tube for edc but don’t think I’ll need it.

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I keep wanting to get one of these lights but the glued driver and pcb in the tail keeps turning me off.

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The glued driver is easy to pop out… the tail PCB not so much. Basically, the battery tube is a giant retaining ring.

Fortunately, the tail doesn’t generally need to come out unless you want to replace it with a magnet like CRX did.

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i bet you wanting more and more no stoping now Big Smile

Fuzzylogic wrote:
Just received my grey nichia and wow. I’m new to the world of led flashlights and this covers a lot of firsts for me. First 18650 light, first quad, first pocket hot rod. This thing is amazing, it’s so bright it’s like having a little piece of the sun in your pocket – heat wise too. It’s actually much smaller than I expected. I bought the 18500 tube for edc but don’t think I’ll need it.
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rizky_p wrote:
Fuzzylogic wrote:
Just received my grey nichia and wow. I’m new to the world of led flashlights and this covers a lot of firsts for me. First 18650 light, first quad, first pocket hot rod. This thing is amazing, it’s so bright it’s like having a little piece of the sun in your pocket – heat wise too. It’s actually much smaller than I expected. I bought the 18500 tube for edc but don’t think I’ll need it.

i bet you wanting more and more no stoping now Big Smile

Nah, it’ll probably be easier to not get sucked in, knowing that almost everything else will be a disappointment compared to this. There’s basically nothing on the market yet which gets anywhere near the lumens-per-cubic-centimeter ratio of this one.

Of course, you’ll still need a thrower… and a compact thrower… and a keychain light… and maybe that one with the magnetic ring… and that pretty copper light… and…

Okay, maybe rizky_p is right. You’re screwed.

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Thats great stuff Dale, a would defo be up for a 20700 tube if hank ever decided to add. I think it would complement the light perfectly Thumbs Up

Till then, i will just have to have 2x vtc6 or vtc5 or 30Q(or any 2 of) as spare/back up with/on me ! The amazing work gone into this little beast is outstanding. I have a few very special lights(to me) in my collection, the D4 is certainly one of them………………..and to top it all, the actual cheapest of them. I honestly think you can not buy a better light out of the box for $40………………..(subjective of course, just IMO).

Thanks to all who help create one of the best lights on the planet Thumbs Up

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hahahah that is so true.. Wink

ToyKeeper wrote:

Of course, you’ll still need a thrower… and a compact thrower… and a keychain light… and maybe that one with the magnetic ring… and that pretty copper light… and…

Okay, maybe rizky_p is right. You’re screwed.

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I’ve been holding off this purchase for sooo looong. Keep trying to convince myself that it really is only another +-600lm light (after a min. Or so based on tests done 2 pages back).

Will have a tall one when i get home tonight and decide. Im sure it will be easier to hit that buy button then Wink

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glide 1 wrote:
I’ve been holding off this purchase for sooo looong. Keep trying to convince myself that it really is only another +-600lm light (after a min. Or so based on tests done 2 pages back).

Will have a tall one when i get home tonight and decide. Im sure it will be easier to hit that buy button then Wink

Its sure fun for 15s though Big Smile Seriously though, it makes for a great compact 18650 EDC light, nice useful beam but with a bonus of having a multi cell light output……….that fits in your pocket.

I thought in ways like that with the m43vn, 11k lumens short lived(30 seconds or so), but how many 11k lights that can be slipped into a coat pocket with ease. Still use 3000lm for long duration’s, but that 11k on tap if/when needed never grow old for me.

You wont regret it, it will become a fav in seconds……..literally. In fact the problem will be on how many more to get Smile
Love these 2 lights, masterpieces imho

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glide 1 wrote:
I’ve been holding off this purchase for sooo looong. Keep trying to convince myself that it really is only another +-600lm light …

It’s a bit like getting a Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus… only a lot brighter, with a more intuitive UI, available in more colors / tints, more mod-friendly, and on sale for 60% off. Just without quite as much runtime or a clip.

I wonder if anyone has tried a SC600 clip on the D4. It looks like it should be just about right…

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Here’s some scope shots of the output. Measured optically OTF. Most of them links not to clutter the thread too much. Used a slightly discharged 18650GA and there probably was some throttling going on.

First on the 7135:
Moon

A bit above moon
A bit more
Almost there

71350 100%

Changing ranges:
Flashlight off

7135 100% for reference

Just a bit above
Just as specified, the higher range cycles between 7135 100% level and up.

Getting brighter

A bit more

Reaching some sort of a peak

Duty cycle increasing
Just a bit below turbo
Turbo

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My D4 219c arrived today. Smaller than expected, 18350 may be small enough for EDC for me.
Can’t judge the output, the day is too bright. Still, after accidentally shining at my eyes I got 4 dots of afterimage for a quarter. With a half-empty battery.

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maukka wrote:
Here’s some scope shots of the output. Measured optically OTF. Most of them links not to clutter the thread too much.

You hid the most interesting scope pics… interesting shape at the beginning of each 7135 pulse, and rounder FET pulses than I would normally expect. Maybe this isn’t one of the FET models which slams closed hard at the end of each pulse, or maybe something is rounding out the curve a bit to prevent the ringing issues from older drivers.

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Got my green D4 (219C) last night. The user interface is as nice as everone else says, and so is the heating up Shocked Wanted to hotrod it further with XP-L2’s but changed my mind, I like it better with 219C SW353 R9050 leds.

And now I want another one for the XP-L2 mod Facepalm

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Played a bit with thermal regulation.
It’s less smooth than I expected, the output stays visually stable, makes a jump, stays stable for another while, jumps again etc.
Also, I noticed that if I heat it up a bit, turn it off and start at full output, the peak temperature will be much higher than originally. Also, I think it may be exceeding the level that I configured….or maybe my burnt fingers got more sensitive Wink

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