Should get a better pic, playing with this new iPhone… took 2400 pics at an event Saturday, tired of messing with the big camera’s. lol
Edit: I should make that clear, I only took 771 pictures, gave out before the night was done and have to admit that I was NOT ready for an all day event! My wife took over 1600 pictures. We came home feeling mugged. Both hurting and broke as well (didn’t get paid, supposedly today, yeah, ok.)
I have the D4 in 219c and xpl hi and have noticed with battery voltage check the xpl hi reads .1volt lower than the 219c using the same battery Has anybody encountered this as well?
I’m not a driver guru, but my guess is potting the driver with silicone, or squirting into the driver cavity lots of thermal grease, or putting a thermally conductive sponge on top of the MCU with the other side of the sponge pressing the bottom of the shelf all would have the same effect: Faster thermal transfer to the heat sensor and possibly a faster response in ramping down when it gets hot.
The potential disadvantage is that Toykeeper calibrated the thermal sensor for this exact light in its stock configuration. She said it doesn’t ramp down temp based on current temperature, but rather it looks at how fast temp is changing and then adjusts output down based on predicted future temperature.
Increasing the thermal conduction to the sensor might cause the temperature to change too rapidly at the sensor and result in excessive stepdown.
Still… only one way to truly find out….. you should test it!
Thanks for the reply on the SC600. Mine is the Mk II cool white, so H2 is still around 670.
Okay, its spec page says…
H1 1100 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr)
* H2:
670 Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs)
356 Lm (3.9 hrs)
162 Lm (11 hrs)
So, I guess its highest level without thermal regulation (PID) is 356 lm.
This isn’t really surprising, since they have about the same amount of aluminum, same amount of thermal mass and surface area, so they have roughly the same ability to deal with heat. Maximum output at a given level of heat will be similar until we make LEDs and drivers more efficient or add extra cooling.
The Q8, for example, should be able to run significantly brighter at the same temperature, simply because it’s bigger.
Try to make sense of the rainbow, but there’s not much difference in output between good batteries. The individual cell samples are probably just as different.
I’m glad to see it’s so consistent, and that it reaches a fairly stable state in under a minute. I guess I must have done something right… The measurements are still pretty noisy though, so even with two lowpass filters it still jumps around sometimes at random.
However, I’m not sure I’ll ever make sense of the rainbow. The rainbow remains a mystery.
Thanks! For a moment, I was starting to think that maybe Cree “5” tints might not be so bad, but your pics reminded me why I don’t use them. I might not mind a high-CRI Nichia at 4000K once in a while, but the Cree 5D looks unpleasantly yellow to me.
I have the D4 in 219c and xpl hi and have noticed with battery voltage check the xpl hi reads .1volt lower than the 219c using the same battery Has anybody encountered this as well?
The measurement relies on the calibration of the attiny MCU, which is known to have significant variation between units. Voltage measurement varies by about 0.1V and temperature varies by like 12 C.
CRX wrote:
Would potting the driver/ cavity with silicone help thermal calibration?
… maybe? It would probably improve things a little, but I haven’t tried it. I have some thermal transfer foam, but it’s not easy to wedge it between the MCU and the pill, especially in such a tight space with wires in the way.
Firelight2 wrote:
only one way to truly find out….. you should test it!
I have the D4 in 219c and xpl hi and have noticed with battery voltage check the xpl hi reads .1volt lower than the 219c using the same battery Has anybody encountered this as well?
The measurement relies on the calibration of the attiny MCU, which is known to have significant variation between units. Voltage measurement varies by about 0.1V and temperature varies by like 12 C.
CRX wrote:
Would potting the driver/ cavity with silicone help thermal calibration?
… maybe? It would probably improve things a little, but I haven’t tried it. I have some thermal transfer foam, but it’s not easy to wedge it between the MCU and the pill, especially in such a tight space with wires in the way.
Firelight2 wrote:
only one way to truly find out….. you should test it!
Exactly.
You guys are far more accurate/ articulate/ nerdy than I am so your results would be more interesting than mine. There is nothing I would like to change about the firmware except the inyoface LVP warning so for now don’t wanna pull the driver out
Just an idea dudes…
Not sure if this has been discussed yet or possible but here’s an idea: instead of stepping down to around 500 lumens, allow to user to choose the output level (current), depending on the ambient temperature of the environment being used this can be adjusted to suit everyone’s needs. It doesn’t need to be lot of options, maybe just 3: 1/1.5/2A
In my case I think the D4 can run comfortably at ~750lm in 25C ambient temp like my triple S2+. After seeing maukka’s graph and how slowly the output recovers after step down, I think it is better to dumb down the temperature regulation.
Thanks for the tip, but it is bearable for the moment
I haven’t entered the game of firmware development yet as I anticipate rapid improvements in certain areas within the next year or two, although what’s going on just now is kool as can be, I think my sincerest efforts will be more appreciated some time future.
The family should know better than to leave me home alone… made Daniel play with Shadow and spent a little more time on the lathe, dressing up the D4. Now it’s Baylor University colors and looks pretty sharp!
I cut brass rings to either space it (at the tail cap, cut a new o-ring groove so it maintains water proofness) or simply at the top, for aesthetics. For a very brief moment I considered giving it to my brother, with his season tickets to Baylor home games, but well, naaaaaaa!
Are those necessary for 20700 or are you just having fun?
Would knowing actual LED temperature help thermal management?
I ask because I just learned that you can calculate it from Vf. It would require different firmwares for different lights though.
I don’t think calculating temperature from Vf would help. I’ll explain via analogy.
Let’s say I’m blind and I want to go outside, but my guide dog is very photosensitive so I need to select an appropriately-dark pair of doggie sunglasses first. I can’t measure the brightness outside directly, but I do at least have a lux meter and a window, so I check that to determine which glasses to use. This is sort of what the D4 does now.
However, I also have a GPS clock which tells me the time, date, and location. So maybe I could calculate the average brightness at this location based on the time and date plus a reference chart for average seasonal weather conditions. This is like calculating temperature based on emitter Vf.
I needed space for the longer cell, so I removed the spring from the driver and added 3mm with the brass spacer at the tail cap. The brass ring at the head is merely cosmetic to blend the gold and green.
It’s still as short as it can possibly be… the spring in the tail cap is fully compressed when assembled.
This light is an instant classic! I doubt anyone is on the fence with it, but if so… it’s certainly worth the money! Premium build/feel, fantastic UI, there’s nothing bad here.
Love that the ramp stops at the end of its travel rather than loop around again. Easy to start on low or last level used.
Some features I would pay more for: magnetic tailcap and a battery tube or tailcap with raised section for a clip, like the TK20 or Zebralights. A solid clip like that is worth the effort and money.
Because of the 3pc design the tailcap or battery tube could be sold as an accessory or replace the standard part for a different model.
It’s sold as a bright light but it would be nice if we could set set the max so it’s not even there in the ramp, set the max to whatever you want your brightest to be and that’s now the max level. Just like an alcoholic needs to keep alcohol out of their house, having that high at hand is so tempting. 12 steps clicks would be an appropriate location for setting it.
Either way this thing is a gem. The UI is quick and fun to use, much faster to find a level than I expected.
Kudos to all involved in development of this light!
question por favor. Can this light destroy itself in any way? What is the default on the thermal config? I turned my light on max and let it run. I counted to at least 30 I recall and there was no step-down. I turned it off, didn’t want to fry anything. It would have stepped down eventually, right? Thanks.
nice look Dale! Thanks for sharing the picture.
Should get a better pic, playing with this new iPhone… took 2400 pics at an event Saturday, tired of messing with the big camera’s. lol
Edit: I should make that clear, I only took 771 pictures, gave out before the night was done and have to admit that I was NOT ready for an all day event! My wife took over 1600 pictures. We came home feeling mugged. Both hurting and broke as well (didn’t get paid, supposedly today, yeah, ok.)
I have the D4 in 219c and xpl hi and have noticed with battery voltage check the xpl hi reads .1volt lower than the 219c using the same battery Has anybody encountered this as well?
Can we buy D4's driver separately in future?
ASTROLUX 5th Anniversary Celebration and Giveaway!!!
You can buy a FET+1 @ Mountain Electronics with D4 V2 Ramping firmware.
Again no reply from the driver gurus?
- LEDs & Other Stuff - - UI CheatSheets - - CRX Flashlight Builds - - CRX Stuff for Sale -
I’m not a driver guru, but my guess is potting the driver with silicone, or squirting into the driver cavity lots of thermal grease, or putting a thermally conductive sponge on top of the MCU with the other side of the sponge pressing the bottom of the shelf all would have the same effect: Faster thermal transfer to the heat sensor and possibly a faster response in ramping down when it gets hot.
The potential disadvantage is that Toykeeper calibrated the thermal sensor for this exact light in its stock configuration. She said it doesn’t ramp down temp based on current temperature, but rather it looks at how fast temp is changing and then adjusts output down based on predicted future temperature.
Increasing the thermal conduction to the sensor might cause the temperature to change too rapidly at the sensor and result in excessive stepdown.
Still… only one way to truly find out….. you should test it!
Okay, its spec page says…
* H2:
So, I guess its highest level without thermal regulation (PID) is 356 lm.
This isn’t really surprising, since they have about the same amount of aluminum, same amount of thermal mass and surface area, so they have roughly the same ability to deal with heat. Maximum output at a given level of heat will be similar until we make LEDs and drivers more efficient or add extra cooling.
The Q8, for example, should be able to run significantly brighter at the same temperature, simply because it’s bigger.
I’m glad to see it’s so consistent, and that it reaches a fairly stable state in under a minute. I guess I must have done something right… The measurements are still pretty noisy though, so even with two lowpass filters it still jumps around sometimes at random.
However, I’m not sure I’ll ever make sense of the rainbow. The rainbow remains a mystery.
Thanks mate, been a ruff day’ please excuse my mood all.
- LEDs & Other Stuff - - UI CheatSheets - - CRX Flashlight Builds - - CRX Stuff for Sale -
Thanks! For a moment, I was starting to think that maybe Cree “5” tints might not be so bad, but your pics reminded me why I don’t use them. I might not mind a high-CRI Nichia at 4000K once in a while, but the Cree 5D looks unpleasantly yellow to me.
The measurement relies on the calibration of the attiny MCU, which is known to have significant variation between units. Voltage measurement varies by about 0.1V and temperature varies by like 12 C.
… maybe? It would probably improve things a little, but I haven’t tried it. I have some thermal transfer foam, but it’s not easy to wedge it between the MCU and the pill, especially in such a tight space with wires in the way.
Exactly.
One-upped again. More lumens, more mAh, more bling. You really don’t know how not to customize anything.
Sometimes I mess things up…
You guys are far more accurate/ articulate/ nerdy than I am so your results would be more interesting than mine. There is nothing I would like to change about the firmware except the inyoface LVP warning so for now don’t wanna pull the driver out Just an idea dudes…
- LEDs & Other Stuff - - UI CheatSheets - - CRX Flashlight Builds - - CRX Stuff for Sale -
That’s pretty easy to disable. Look around line 1600 or so and comment out the calls to BlinkLVP().
Not sure if this has been discussed yet or possible but here’s an idea: instead of stepping down to around 500 lumens, allow to user to choose the output level (current), depending on the ambient temperature of the environment being used this can be adjusted to suit everyone’s needs. It doesn’t need to be lot of options, maybe just 3: 1/1.5/2A
In my case I think the D4 can run comfortably at ~750lm in 25C ambient temp like my triple S2+. After seeing maukka’s graph and how slowly the output recovers after step down, I think it is better to dumb down the temperature regulation.
USB power meter/tester thread
Thanks for the tip, but it is bearable for the moment
I haven’t entered the game of firmware development yet as I anticipate rapid improvements in certain areas within the next year or two, although what’s going on just now is kool as can be, I think my sincerest efforts will be more appreciated some time future.
- LEDs & Other Stuff - - UI CheatSheets - - CRX Flashlight Builds - - CRX Stuff for Sale -
Are those necessary for 20700 or are you just having fun?
I don’t think calculating temperature from Vf would help. I’ll explain via analogy.
Let’s say I’m blind and I want to go outside, but my guide dog is very photosensitive so I need to select an appropriately-dark pair of doggie sunglasses first. I can’t measure the brightness outside directly, but I do at least have a lux meter and a window, so I check that to determine which glasses to use. This is sort of what the D4 does now.
However, I also have a GPS clock which tells me the time, date, and location. So maybe I could calculate the average brightness at this location based on the time and date plus a reference chart for average seasonal weather conditions. This is like calculating temperature based on emitter Vf.
It seems like it would be less effective.
Great review!
Thank you.
I needed space for the longer cell, so I removed the spring from the driver and added 3mm with the brass spacer at the tail cap. The brass ring at the head is merely cosmetic to blend the gold and green.
It’s still as short as it can possibly be… the spring in the tail cap is fully compressed when assembled.
The nitecore HC30 head strap works great! Groves line up perfect.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
I like the D4 combined with sunglasses, this is one bright flashlight!
link to djozz tests
A heat shield between the head (of the flashlight) and the (human) head could be a cool touch…
“My collection”: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/700139#comment-700139
I don’t know why I can’t see them without doing “View Source” but the links in Khas’s post #1213 are:
https://abload.de/img/sam_2343iwbk2.jpg
and
https://abload.de/img/sam_2354f3×8j.jpg
This light is an instant classic! I doubt anyone is on the fence with it, but if so… it’s certainly worth the money! Premium build/feel, fantastic UI, there’s nothing bad here.
Love that the ramp stops at the end of its travel rather than loop around again. Easy to start on low or last level used.
Some features I would pay more for: magnetic tailcap and a battery tube or tailcap with raised section for a clip, like the TK20 or Zebralights. A solid clip like that is worth the effort and money.
Because of the 3pc design the tailcap or battery tube could be sold as an accessory or replace the standard part for a different model.
It’s sold as a bright light but it would be nice if we could set set the max so it’s not even there in the ramp, set the max to whatever you want your brightest to be and that’s now the max level. Just like an alcoholic needs to keep alcohol out of their house, having that high at hand is so tempting. 12
stepsclicks would be an appropriate location for setting it.Either way this thing is a gem. The UI is quick and fun to use, much faster to find a level than I expected.
Kudos to all involved in development of this light!
question por favor. Can this light destroy itself in any way? What is the default on the thermal config? I turned my light on max and let it run. I counted to at least 30 I recall and there was no step-down. I turned it off, didn’t want to fry anything. It would have stepped down eventually, right? Thanks.
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