WTB: Jetbeam RRT01 – Any place to buy it?! + [RRT01 2019 discussion]

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oGnavigator
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How bad is this parasitic drain on the 2020? Is the driver pretty much the same besides that?

jon_slider
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welcome to the discussion oGnavigator

edit
the 2020 parasitic on standby is the same as the 2019 (thanks to new info from pol77 below)

at slightly less than 30 micro amps per hour, an 1100mAh 18350 should last more than 4 years (someone check my math?)

pol77
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Measuring weak currents is not simple or easy. It depends who is doing it, how he is doing it and what equipment is being used. For instance, trying to use a cheap clamp meter for it, is – sorry for my bluntness – a joke.

Most of all, unless all of the above conditions are near perfect, comparisons between measurements from different people are worthless.

So, in service to the community that has helped me so much on my road to becoming a Torchaholic (I live in London, we call them torches here), here is my method and measurements.

I used a Calibrated Brymen BM869s and a fully charged KeepPower 18350 1200mAh. A rubber band held the battery and probes in place. I measured each light for 13 minutes, as when measuring weak currents, more time gives more accuracy. I took a measurement every minute.

The lights measured were:

RRT01 2019 model, with the driver it came with

RRT01 2020 model, with the driver it came with (verified 2020 driver inside)

TC-R1 with 2019 driver, sourced from Jetbeam

TC-R1 with 2020 driver, sourced from Jetbeam

Here is my measuring setup:

And here are the results:

As you can see, there is no difference in the drain current between the 2019 and 2020 drivers, both the ones that came inside lights and the ones I sourced from Jetbeam.

jon_slider, if you still want the 2020 driver out of your home, I will be happy to have it Wink

Disclaimer: No torches were harmed during these measurements.

jon_slider
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pol77 wrote:
there is no difference in the drain current between the 2019 and 2020 drivers, both the ones that came inside lights and the ones I sourced from Jetbeam.

jon_slider, if you still want the 2020 driver out of your home, I will be happy to have it Wink

Thank You!

ok, I now disagree with my younger self and will keep my 2020 driver
thanks for the education

thank you for measuring both these drivers:

I recant my past opinion and will now profess the one true parasitic drain:

If someone was to leave a 2020 RRT-01 on standby (switch on, dial at minimum), the parasitic drain will be identical to a switchless 2019 model

about 2.85 years on standby with a 750mAh LiIon

Does the 2020 driver have higher output?
2020 Thermal step down, does it work to prevent damage to a freestanding light set on maximum?
Is a 2020 driver a beneficial upgrade for a TCR-1?

oGnavigator
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That’s good to hear. Thanks for making it simple for guys like me that have no idea what those graphs mean. So now I’m interested in the 2020 model with triple 219b sw35 since I’m willing to sacrifice a little throw for a little flood

Thank you for welcoming Jon_slider. I’ve learned the most from reading your older posts. I saw the Group buy for the og model. Do you think it will be possible to organize another group buy for the newest 2020 model? Does anyone already have experience modding the newest light?

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If you are asking for someone capable of building a triple, take a look at Vinh’s offerings

For a triple 3500k 219b, I suggest the carclo 10507 lens, for a nice even floody beam with no central hotspot

the 3500k 219b can be purchased from Andy Zhu

pol77
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So, I took one for the team and my friend jon_slider.

I did a runtime graph on my TC-R1 with 2019 driver and Nichia sw45k LED. The endeavour did not end well, as the temperature fried the battery, which is no more. I am one Keeppower 18350 1200mAh short now and UK stock seems to be 0, so I will try to order from abroad.
I then replaced the driver in the same light with a 2020 version, put in another Keeppower 18350 1200mAh and repeated the test. I believe the chart speaks for itself. I will be ordering some more 2020 drivers.

The 2020 driver DOES have thermal control. It still lacks voltage protection. The voltage of the battery was 0,38V when I removed it from the light.

jon_slider
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pol77 wrote:
The 2020 driver DOES have thermal control.

thank you Smile
did the battery fail due to overdischarge, or overheating?
I do have a spare 18350 to donate to your cause, that just arrived from illumn

my impressions:
the 2020 thermal protection is allowing too high of a ring temperature
these lights are not safe to tailstand on maximum

pol77
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I believe the battery failed due to a combination of both. I have overdischarged batteries during runtime tests before and the discharging is not the problem. It is the charging that has to be done carefully and properly, in an appropriate charger. The maximum heat did not kill the battery on the spot either, as it survived and started cooling off, before it failed. So I guess the combination of overdischarging the battery while it was so hot, killed it. The battery registers 0V and will not take any charge even when directly connected with a full battery, so it is completely destroyed.

Thank you very much for your offer of a battery for the cause. The battery shipping problem remains, so I will keep looking locally, but your kindness is heart-warming, as always.

I disagree with you on your conclusion. I believe the temperature thresholds implemented in this driver are brilliant:

The temperature threshold for pain due to heat is about 46C. This means your tissue will have to reach 46C for you to start feeling pain. The body of the light barely reached that temperature, without anything conducting heat from it. If you hold the light, it will never reach 46C, as some heat will flow into your hand, cooling it. If you leave it to reach 46C and pick it up, you will experience the slightest discomfort before it starts cooling off.

The ring will indeed reach 56C if the light is left to tail stand long enough, which is definitely uncomfortable to hold, but then you pick up the light, it will start cooling off gradually, as heat will flow from the body to your hand and from the ring to the body. It is safe to adjust the dial by touching the ring briefly, as the temperature differential of 56C to your body temperature is not high enough to cause such high flow of heat that will raise your tissue temperature to uncomfortable levels, from a brief contact.

So, unless you do it on purpose, leave the light to tail stand until it reaches full temperature, then pick it up and immediately and continuously hold the ring, there will be no problem.

On the contrary, this is the exact thermal regulation I would use to make the light thermally safe to use, without sacrificing too much of its performance, which is already not the highest. In other words, the thermal regulation implemented allows the light to operate at the performance limit the host can sustain, while at the thermal limit the human tissue is comfortable with (if used normally / wisely).

If they had implemented overdischarging protection in the driver as well, it would be nice! As it is, I will purchase more 2020 drivers.

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thank you very much for time, testing, and analysis

Im encouraged by your observation that the 2020 driver does indeed have thermal protection
I agree it is a good thing.

It appears that using the light below 200 lumens avoids any excess heat issues.

your chart is full of useful info, much appreciate your sacrifice for the team.

pol77
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I would not go as far as to call it a sacrifice. Just an inconvenience because UK stocks of the battery are at an all time low.

I am going to be using these charts, with a variety of labels, as needed, for any – if any – reviews I may make in the future, as I too find them full of useful information, nicely presented in one place. But I would appreciate any comments or suggestions if anything can be improved.

pol77
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After some research, I will revise my assessment that the battery died due to a combination of overheating and overdischarging. It appears these batteries have a “fuse” under the positive terminal that will swell if overheated and break the contact, to prevent the battery from exploding due to overheating.

Some (not very wise people) will drill the positive terminal and using a nail with cut off point will hammer the “fuse” flat so the positive terminal will make contact and the battery will work again. I will not be taking that route, of course, but this explains what happened.

pol77
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PSA: Unprotected Li-Ion flat top batteries (or at least some of them) not only have a thermal fuse, but it is also resetable!

My “dead” Keeppower 18350 1200mAh flat top, unprotected battery that had stopped working due to overheating in the course of the testing that I am describing a few posts before, is now fully functional, thanks to the knowledge shared in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmu3U7tndA

I used a small, flat screwdriver.

By the way, the battery still held a charge of 3.19V, so it still had some way to go when the thermal fuse was activated.

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Thanks for all the info. Very helpful.

Sounds a bit like a pop up Turkey timer:

TimMc
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pol77 wrote:
PSA: Unprotected Li-Ion flat top batteries (or at least some of them) not only have a thermal fuse, but it is also resetable!

Thanks! I have a few KeepPower 18350 1200mAh cells. I’ll keep this in mind if they die.

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