Test/review of UltraFire 18350 1100mAh (Black-red)

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beam0
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beam0 wrote:
duvallite wrote:
It was my understanding that the Keeppower IMR 18350 1200 mAh battery from RTD Vapor was the same battery as the Aspire. I picked up a couple to have on hand when I finally decide on either a Astrolux S1 or a Convoy S2+, both with the shorty tube.

Thanks for the info, probably gone too…

The only KeepPower 18350 I see currently on that site is 750mAh, and it’s out of stock.

This is weird, doing a search on that site there’s no Keeppower 1200 coming up…but if I do a google search they come up:
https://www.rtdvapor.com/keeppower-imr-18350-1200mah-10a-2pcs/
EDIT: I searched a different way on the site and found them there.

I wonder why that is? But anyway I can put them in the cart to purchase, and shipping is only $2.99 which is less that what gearbest is charging me to ship a pair of the UltraFires, and a little over $3.00 less than amazon.

Thanks duvallite!

 

beam0
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Agro wrote:
These are nearly certainly exactly the same cells as:
  • Aspire 18350
  • Keeppower 18350 1200 mAh

However, I wouldn’t trust Ultrafire. They may change the cell they use under the wraps at any point.
Therefore I would prefer to buy Keeppowers unless:

  • UF was so much cheaper that I could justify the risk, or
  • I was capable of measuring the cell cell receive AND getting money back if it underperforms AND got it cheaper to justify the potential burden

OR unless…
  • You want protected cells that still deliver high discharge current.

Just realized the Keepowers aren’t protected?

In fact aside from these UltraFires, I’m not aware of any other High capacity/High discharge protected 18350.

 

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I would assume that the same battery being equipped with a protection circuit for a high drain cell would end up costing more since they have to add the board plus add more FET’s to the board to achieve higher currents.

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moderator007 wrote:
I would assume that the same battery being equipped with a protection circuit for a high drain cell would end up costing more since they have to add the board plus add more FET's to the board to achieve higher currents.

While this is true moderator007, you may also already know that final product cost is largely driven by political reasons like perceived value and supply/demand. I do often find protected cells at lower prices versus unprotected ones. 

 

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moderator007 wrote:
I would assume that the same battery being equipped with a protection circuit for a high drain cell would end up costing more since they have to add the board plus add more FET’s to the board to achieve higher currents.

Of course, adding anything would cost more, I assume you’re suggesting the UltraFires are based on a different cell altogether?

Maybe UltraFire bought a boat load of those Aspire 1100 base cells the vapers don’t want anymore, for pennies on the dollar. Wink

 

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I was just suggesting that if they didn’t add the protection circuit they could sale the battery cheaper and we could buy them cheaper. Big Smile
A few years ago when I was build a battery pack for a hunting light, I needed a protection circuit in the pack. As the current capabilities of the circuit went up so did the price, may not be that way now. But the circuit is adding to the cost of the battery.

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moderator007 wrote:
I was just suggesting that if they didn’t add the protection circuit they could sale the battery cheaper and we could buy them cheaper. Big Smile A few years ago when I was build a battery pack for a hunting light, I needed a protection circuit in the pack. As the current capabilities of the circuit went up so did the price, may not be that way now. But the circuit is adding to the cost of the battery.

Ok I see then. For the Chinese manufactures I suppose adding the extra FET’s is probably in the cents not dollars range.

I’m happy these have the protection, and to have 18350’s that can deliver the same current as unprotected versions. Also as I said above, aside from these UltraFires, I’m not aware of any other High capacity/High discharge protected 18350’s.

And there’s a deal on these today… don’t think we could ask for any cheaper than this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/57247
I just ordered a pair of them.

 

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Keeppowers are available both with and without protection.
And, frankly, I wouldn’t trust UF to keep the protection circuit either. This does not mean I expect them to fake protection, I don’t. But if they do, I won’t be surprised.

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Agro wrote:
Keeppowers are available both with and without protection.

I would have like to get the Keeppowers but unfortunately the protected version is very hard to find right now, found only one website that had them in stock but for a very high price: $9.00 ea. ($18.00/ 2pcs)

Bangood price is $11.99/2pcs. : “under restocking”
Aliexpress same price: “cannot deliver to USA

No where else could I find them available for sale, google didn’t help.

.

Also the UltraFires can do 7A+: “the cells tracks nicely and can deliver 7A, at 10A the voltage is a bit low”
The Keeppowers do not: “tracks fairly well and capacity only drops slowly with current. 5A works fine, 7A is limited by the protection”

.

Agro wrote:
And, frankly, I wouldn’t trust UF to keep the protection circuit either.
Not sure I understand, are you saying the UltraFires protection circuit may fail prematurely? Or that the protection may not work at all?

 

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I mean that they may remove it from some future batch. And by future I mean any newer than the latest known-good.
If you compare the cells:
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallcomparator.php
you’ll see that Keppower protection adds less resistance, but trips at 7A. UF doesn’t trip even at 10A. Assuming it actually works, this is a good thing – some lights draw much more than 7A from a single 18350…

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I purchased the Aspire 18650 to run in the D4. The protected version wouldn’t work with out tripping the PCB.
I can see the PCB being useful in some lights but not if your going to draw more current than the PCB will stand.
Each has their on purpose.

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moderator007 wrote:
I purchased the Aspire 18650 to run in the D4. The protected version wouldn’t work with out tripping the PCB.
I can see the PCB being useful in some lights but not if your going to draw more current than the PCB will stand.

Each has their on purpose.

Exactly. And why I’m getting some of these in addition to the unprotected Aspire 1100 I already have, different batteries for my different lights.

 

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beam0 wrote:
……………The Aspire is Gone, gone, gone…

I just received an order from Liion recently and got the Aspire 1100mAh, but checking today it’s no longer available at Liion Wholesale or IMR Batteries. Sad Wish i would have known I would have got more than 1 pcs. Angry

.
Liion is recommending this battery instead (Vapcell 1100mAh – 10A):
https://liionwholesale.com/products/vapcell-18350?variant=6132565278752

I wonder if it’s as good as the Aspire?

.

“The Vapcell 18350 is the same thing as the Aspire was under the wrapper”

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/57768#comment-1281312

 

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Just got my Ultrafires yesterday.

These are pretty big, specs show 18.4mm and that is true for 95% of the length, however at the thickest point near the top they’re 18.74mm, and unfortunately they will NOT fit in the Convoy 18350 tubes. Angry

The do fit well in the Jaxman tube which is both wider (I.D.) and longer than the Convoy’s.

.
Length is 37.6mm (38.7mm to the top of the button) so true to the length specs of 38.8mm

I haven’t done a capacity test yet, I’ll post here the results after I do.

 

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beam0 wrote:
Just got my Ultrafires yesterday.

These are pretty big, specs show 18.4mm and that is true for 95% of the length, however at the thickest point near the top they're 18.74mm, and unfortunately they will NOT fit in the Convoy 18350 tubes. …

Trim them down, use a file or whatever. They're begging to be turned into protected flat tops. 

 

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Barkuti wrote:

beam0 wrote:
Just got my Ultrafires yesterday.

These are pretty big, specs show 18.4mm and that is true for 95% of the length, however at the thickest point near the top they’re 18.74mm, and unfortunately they will NOT fit in the Convoy 18350 tubes. …


Trim them down, use a file or whatever. They’re begging to be turned into protected flat tops. 


 


Cheers Party

The width is the real problem, not fitting in the Convoy tubes.

 

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beam0 wrote:
The width is the real problem, not fitting in the Convoy tubes.

Usually the cell is wrapped then the PCB is put on with a metal strip running from positive to negative, then rewrapped.
This will add to the cell diameter.
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Flashlights with linear drivers do not really need protected cells, this is because the very minimum emitter driving voltage plus driver overhead is about at a low li-ion cut-off voltage (≈2.5V), and anyway you will notice quite a difference in output much before this. 

Thus, unless you need to leave the flashlight completely unattended there's really no point in using protected cells inside. Furthermore, with unprotected cells you won't be left in the dark at cut-off.

 

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moderator007 wrote:
beam0 wrote:
The width is the real problem, not fitting in the Convoy tubes.
Usually the cell is wrapped then the PCB is put on with a metal strip running from positive to negative, then rewrapped. This will add to the cell diameter.

Yes but it’s not that. I’m aware of the metal strip running down the side of protected cells.
As I said it’s only at the very top where the whole circumference is thicker. 90% of the cell will fit down into the Convoy tube, it’s only thicker at the top.

Here’s how far it goes in to a Convoy tube:

.

LiitoKala 26650 Lii-50A’s (unprotected) have the same issue, whole circumference is slightly thicker at the very top.

 

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Barkuti wrote:

Flashlights with linear drivers do not really need protected cells, this is because the very minimum emitter driving voltage plus driver overhead is about at a low li-ion cut-off voltage (≈2.5V), and anyway you will notice quite a difference in output much before this. 


Thus, unless you need to leave the flashlight completely unattended there’s really no point in using protected cells inside. Furthermore, with unprotected cells you won’t be left in the dark at cut-off.


 


Cheers Party

Yes these are for some lights I use at my work if I accidentally leave the flashlight completely unattended. I have on occasion left a light inside a machine turned on (stuck with tail magnet to the inside wall) Some of the lights I like to use have no LVP so they won’y shut themselves off.

It’s usually a 1.5 to 2 hour drive round trip, and I don’t remember until I get home or the next day. And I don’t usually return to the same site for about 40-50 days. So I feel better with the protected cell for those lights.

 

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