The There Are No Stupid Questions Thread

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Sidney Stratton
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I’m comparing the binned values to OTF – ballpark. As the spec’ed values are at 6A and I don’t get near that at 8A (actually 7.39A at tail).

A further test, now with the wires. Removed the MCPCB w/ LED and mounted on static aluminium heatsink (no fan cooling). Driven by a power supply. Current measurement via clamp meter – closest possible to the MCPCB. Test leads 16 ga. On Start (O/S) values.

With the original wires, 24 gauge (I estimate): at 6A –> 1130lm, at 8A –> 1315lm
With new wires 18 gauge: at 6A –> 1230lm, at 8A –> 1350lm

So it would not seem to be the wires that are choking the output. There is a slight increase in luminosity but nowhere the claimed values.

Eliminating the switch, the spring, the battery, the driver, wires, and lens, I can only estimate my LED is either bad binned (which I would doubt as Simon’s are well documented and although a bad one may be in the lot, it is not common) or my lightbox is in error.

The lightbox;
I had problems with the throwers. After some exchanges with Jeff and CNCman, added a dispersing cone and this remedied most of what I had encountered with SST40 and SST70. The Osrams were always reading low, and so remains the problem with these leds.

The box measures well with the Q8 (4 x XPL-2), the Avaritia NA40-SE (3 x SST40s) and the Sofirn SP36 (4 x LH351D). Also works with the smaller EDCs.

Will have to find a better dispersion device for that hotspot…

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Hey, anyone watching the youtube lately see an ad for a new movie, where an actor or stuntman decides to “get real” and signs up to be a soldier or something in the MidEast?

The name is something like “Hevic” or “Hevil” or “Helva” or something like that. Keep getting garbage results from goggle, so was wondering if anyone saw it and recalls the title

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mitsuki08
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Lightbringer wrote:
Hey, anyone watching the youtube lately see an ad for a new movie, where an actor or stuntman decides to “get real” and signs up to be a soldier or something in the MidEast?

The name is something like “Hevic” or “Hevil” or “Helva” or something like that. Keep getting garbage results from goggle, so was wondering if anyone saw it and recalls the title

Searching google does not seem to show too much results. Found it while browsing YTS though. https://yts.mx/movies/heval-2021. Seems to be a curiosity stream special. “heval documentary” yielded better results.

Lightbringer
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“Heval”, that’s it! Tnx!

I was getting halvah (yum!) for “helva”, he-vil (good-looking in an evil way) for “hevil”, etc., but no other hits.

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story
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Do you lose CRI from ceiling bounce?

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story wrote:
Do you lose CRI from ceiling bounce?
Yes, if it is a blue ceiling. Maybe, if it is a white ceiling.

I noticed that I definitely loose ceiling bounce from CRI. 

Rev 22:15

MoreHiCRILumens
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I need some high capacity 18650 batteries for powerbank use and for some low drain lights under 10A. Are Panasonic NCR18650B’s still number one choice?

thefreeman
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MoreLumens wrote:
I need some high capacity 18650 batteries for powerbank use and for some low drain lights under 10A. Are Panasonic NCR18650B’s still number one choice?

It hasn’t been for some time, it’s an older cell with 4.875A CDR.

GA, 35E (8A) and MJ1 are better choices, Samsung put out a new revision recently (35E3), probably with increased cycle life like 40T3.

MoreHiCRILumens
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thefreeman wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
I need some high capacity 18650 batteries for powerbank use and for some low drain lights under 10A. Are Panasonic NCR18650B’s still number one choice?

It hasn’t been for some time, it’s an older cell with 4.875A CDR.

GA, 35E (8A) and MJ1 are better choices, Samsung put out a new revision recently (35E3), probably with increased cycle life like 40T3.

Thanks. Probably getting MJ1’s then.

story
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https://imgur.com/a/JMtDoXs

Hey look at these pics.

Where’s the attiny85 in the D4V2 or D4SV2?

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story wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/JMtDoXs

Hey look at these pics.

Where’s the attiny85 in the D4V2 or D4SV2?


It uses the newer 1634. It has more input/outputs to control aux leds.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

story
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Does anyone have a D4SV2 dissemble write up? I just need to access the driver and flash the 1634.
Based on my research, I need a soldering that goes up to 400c?

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story wrote:
Does anyone have a D4SV2 dissemble write up? I just need to access the driver and flash the 1634.
Based on my research, I need a soldering that goes up to 400c?

You don’t have to disassemble or do any soldering. The driver can stay in place. You use the pins near the spring.
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68263

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

story
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JasonWW wrote:
story wrote:
Does anyone have a D4SV2 dissemble write up? I just need to access the driver and flash the 1634. Based on my research, I need a soldering that goes up to 400c?
You don’t have to disassemble or do any soldering. The driver can stay in place. You use the pins near the spring. https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68263

I destroyed those pads lol.
Anyway, it was easier to dissemble than expected. I desoldered the aux wires, cut the thick wire and use a thing to violently push out the driver.

I am in contact with Hank. Maybe I will get another flashlight with the driver. Let’s see if the tinting ramping are coming out soon.

MoreHiCRILumens
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I been testing my batteries capacity with Vapcell S4 plus. It also shows resistance which ain’t accurate, but can give some hint about your batteries age and condition?
I have some old maybe 6-8 years old, maybe even older NCR18650B’s which shows resistance everything from 60-103 mOhms. Haven’t capacity yet, but it’s probably ok.

So the question is about that resistance value. It’s not accurate because one other cell showed 35 mOhm few days ago and now 42 mOhm, but that value probably changes depending on how full is it or is it discharging etc?
I’m writing every cells values onto wrapper just to know which cells to combine if needed and to find most similar cells. So because resistance value change, it would be wise to mark it like <50, <75, <100 etc.?

Yes? Blushing

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DCIR changes with state of charge yes, it is significantly higher when SOC is low, slightly higher when SOC is high ( See the last graph )
It’s also higher when cold, lower when hot.

In his review HKJ found that the DCIR function is reasonably consistant but that it significantly underestimates it.

For reference Docware measured the DCIR of several cells according to IEC61960 standard:

But even if the S4 underestimates it you can still use it to track ageing.

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@ MoreLumens:

You have the right idea in noting the ballpark DCIR onto the label (I use a fine-tipped marker and cover with Scotch Tape).

However, for the 3 or 4 cell lights, I have dedicated batteries. This to always be around the same IR. Then the deep-drawn lights, I also have dedicated cells for these.

Keep in mind, we’re measuring milliOhms. Any slight difference in contact points in the charger, any oily residue will affect the reading. I’ve taken to cleaning these contacts and cells with Iso alcohol for a proper test.

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When I “check” resistance, I bap the button like a dozen times, and will get a dozen different readings, albeit in roughly the same range. Ain’t like it’s gonna read 42… 42… 42… 42… etc.

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Why do many lighted E-switches turn off when the light is powered on? I wish they stayed on.

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Ledhead wrote:
Why do many lighted E-switches turn off when the light is powered on? I wish they stayed on.

They are just programmed that way. Just personal choice of the person writing the code.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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Hank is offering those 219BT-V1 emitters but hasn’t posted an estimated max output for them. What max lumen level would you get from those in a D4V2? What is their heat like compared to an E21A or an XP-L Hi?

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Collection: TN42, TN40S, Catapult V6, SP36 BLF, sc700d, sc64c LE, D4V2 CuZn, D4V2 CuTi, D4V2 Al x2, KR4 Al x2
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Wishlist: Acebeam K75, Zebralight sc600w mk IV plus, Convoy M3-C
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CRC
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In regards to turbo modes generating heat.

For a long time, I was under the impression that heat was bad because it was going to harm the light in some way.

Like, frying the LED or electronics, or hurt the battery somehow..?

But the more I learn about (any subject related to) flashlights, the issue of heat is seeming to be more of an annoyance than anything to be overly concerened about.

Like, people just dont like holding a hot light?

I have never had a light get so hot that it was uncomfortable to hold.

But thats party because I have played it safe and dont allow it to get very hot, for fear of destroying my flashlight.

Ive always considered turbo mode to be, “break the flashlight mode.”

Have I been playing it too safe?

If my hand can handle the heat, can I assume the light and its components should be just fine?

Correllux
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MoreLumens wrote:
I been testing my batteries capacity with Vapcell S4 plus. It also shows resistance which ain’t accurate, but can give some hint about your batteries age and condition?
I have some old maybe 6-8 years old, maybe even older NCR18650B’s which shows resistance everything from 60-103 mOhms. Haven’t capacity yet, but it’s probably ok.

So the question is about that resistance value. It’s not accurate because one other cell showed 35 mOhm few days ago and now 42 mOhm, but that value probably changes depending on how full is it or is it discharging etc?
I’m writing every cells values onto wrapper just to know which cells to combine if needed and to find most similar cells. So because resistance value change, it would be wise to mark it like <50, <75, <100 etc.?

Yes? Blushing

In addition to what thefreeman shared, you might like to read HKJ’s old article on resistance testing. Basically it’s hard to do it accurately and most meters won’t be good enough, just like most chargers are not accurate in their readings. I like having the feature on a charger anyway because I can get an idea and mentally keep an average, sort of, over time. I used to note it on new cells but stopped just because the readings on chargers are so variable. If the resistance when first measured on the charger begins to get noticeably and consistently-ish higher, then you know that cell is aging and may not be capable of giving the current it used to, so maybe time to relegate it to lower powered lights at that point.

I find it a little more useful on NiMH cells.

http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal%20impedance%20UK.html

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I have an Emisar D18 with half xpl hi 4000K and half xpl hi 2750K that I bought last year. I’ve tried getting the ceiling bounce app installed on my old phone, but can’t figure it out. Anyone have a rough guess what the lumen and candela output would be? I’m using Samsung 30q button tops for it if that matters.

Also, if anyone has advice on how to install the ceiling bounce app, that would be much appreciated as well! I have windows and linux (fedora) on my computer so whatever is easier. Never sideloaded(?) an app so I’m lost.

Yeah I got lights. 

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CRC wrote:
In regards to turbo modes generating heat.

For a long time, I was under the impression that heat was bad because it was going to harm the light in some way.

Like, frying the LED or electronics, or hurt the battery somehow..?

But the more I learn about (any subject related to) flashlights, the issue of heat is seeming to be more of an annoyance than anything to be overly concerened about.

Like, people just dont like holding a hot light?

I have never had a light get so hot that it was uncomfortable to hold.

But thats party because I have played it safe and dont allow it to get very hot, for fear of destroying my flashlight.

Ive always considered turbo mode to be, “break the flashlight mode.”

Have I been playing it too safe?

If my hand can handle the heat, can I assume the light and its components should be just fine?

Too safe….probably yeah maybe, and that’s fine. A lot of this anti-heat stuff comes from the general lighting industry, notsomuch the flashlight folks (obviously…I mean it was light geeks that pushed envelopes and made cool things despite some heat, and eventually the world followed…most of the world).

Many lights will limit or prevent hot-hot running temperatures either through limiting the current altogether or by using a timer or temperature reading on the driver which then bumps it down to cool off. Choose a light or build using a driver that has no limits and yes, you can actually blister your skin and in some cases damage components, depending. Most people will turn the light down or off when it gets pretty hot, and turn it off in a panic if it feels super hot, but generally the emitters and electronics can handle temperatures far above the point where you skin can actually get burned. Ultraviolet emitters and some others are exceptions…heat wimps. Super cheap lights with plastic reflectors or other unworthy parts may be damaged if they are modded to run high power fun.

I had a chuckle yesterday at work. Coworker isn’t a light geek but he loves lights and got into them many years ago when lithium cells were less easy to come by. He’s been using Lumintop Tools for awhile but usually just quick utility bursts of light. He left one running on high on his desk for awhile and was shocked when he picked it up again – thought his hand was going to melt off. lol. I picked it up and was like, yeah, it’s warm, almost hot, but not really hot yet. Uncomfortable to hold, but doable without skin turning red. So it’s relative and it takes some exposure to realize what’s “hot” and what’s actually hot, and where those limits are. But other than skin, the light and components are usually plenty robust.

Mainstream light makers will prevent this heat in favor of longer run times and/or avoiding complaints in the mass market customers (that’s a win-win for most general public light users, notsomuch for enthusiasts).

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Ok, thanks everyone for good answers in internal resistance question.

More questions. So I’m going to solder Convoy S2+‘s pill to spacer, but should I add some thermal compound between those also? I think answer is simple yes, but I won’t take it apart after that so is there a risk that thermal compound between those gets old at some point and works more as insulator then? I use Arctic MX-4.
Probably both solutions would work and I wouldn’t even notice difference, but won’t hurt to ask.

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MoreLumens wrote:
Ok, thanks everyone for good answers in internal resistance question.

More questions. So I’m going to solder Convoy S2+‘s pill to spacer, but should I add some thermal compound between those also? I think answer is simple yes, but I won’t take it apart after that so is there a risk that thermal compound between those gets old at some point and works more as insulator then? I use Arctic MX-4.
Probably both solutions would work and I wouldn’t even notice difference, but won’t hurt to ask.

I would do one or the other but not both. I have not tried this myself so it’s just educated guessing, but my concern would be that soldering would burn the paste, perhaps leaving a carbon that would not conduct heat at all. The solder by itself will conduct just fine, albeit less than the base metals do. Take the time to inspect the flat surfaces of each and remove any nubs or burrs, perhaps try to flatten the pill platform if it’s concave/convex as some of them are (a larger punch or similar can be used to gently persuade it flat again if necessary)…just to give them the best fit so less solder is needed in there. Proper interface is more valuable than the filler used to correct that, when possible. Same is true for mcpcb’s. With a decent interface and minimal clamp pressure from the reflector/bezel, paste by itself is just fine.

MoreHiCRILumens
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For paste itself says it can take 180c peak temps, but no idea what happens after that. Without paste I would just put both of those on heatplate and add solder + extra heat if needed from soldering iron, but with thermal paste I thought of doing quick soldering with reflow soldering paste so it wouldn’t get all that hot, maybe.

Well gotta check surfaces and make sure they are flat enough. Maybe I put some soldering paste between pill and spacer and let that form nice bond between two surfaces and after that soldering it from sides and adding some solder in those two holes too.

CRC
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Correllux wrote:
CRC wrote:
In regards to turbo modes generating heat.

For a long time, I was under the impression that heat was bad because it was going to harm the light in some way.

Like, frying the LED or electronics, or hurt the battery somehow..?

But the more I learn about (any subject related to) flashlights, the issue of heat is seeming to be more of an annoyance than anything to be overly concerened about.

Like, people just dont like holding a hot light?

I have never had a light get so hot that it was uncomfortable to hold.

But thats party because I have played it safe and dont allow it to get very hot, for fear of destroying my flashlight.

Ive always considered turbo mode to be, “break the flashlight mode.”

Have I been playing it too safe?

If my hand can handle the heat, can I assume the light and its components should be just fine?

Too safe….probably yeah maybe, and that’s fine. A lot of this anti-heat stuff comes from the general lighting industry, notsomuch the flashlight folks (obviously…I mean it was light geeks that pushed envelopes and made cool things despite some heat, and eventually the world followed…most of the world).

Many lights will limit or prevent hot-hot running temperatures either through limiting the current altogether or by using a timer or temperature reading on the driver which then bumps it down to cool off. Choose a light or build using a driver that has no limits and yes, you can actually blister your skin and in some cases damage components, depending. Most people will turn the light down or off when it gets pretty hot, and turn it off in a panic if it feels super hot, but generally the emitters and electronics can handle temperatures far above the point where you skin can actually get burned. Ultraviolet emitters and some others are exceptions…heat wimps. Super cheap lights with plastic reflectors or other unworthy parts may be damaged if they are modded to run high power fun.

I had a chuckle yesterday at work. Coworker isn’t a light geek but he loves lights and got into them many years ago when lithium cells were less easy to come by. He’s been using Lumintop Tools for awhile but usually just quick utility bursts of light. He left one running on high on his desk for awhile and was shocked when he picked it up again – thought his hand was going to melt off. lol. I picked it up and was like, yeah, it’s warm, almost hot, but not really hot yet. Uncomfortable to hold, but doable without skin turning red. So it’s relative and it takes some exposure to realize what’s “hot” and what’s actually hot, and where those limits are. But other than skin, the light and components are usually plenty robust.

Mainstream light makers will prevent this heat in favor of longer run times and/or avoiding complaints in the mass market customers (that’s a win-win for most general public light users, notsomuch for enthusiasts).

Thank you!
I feel a lot better about using turbo on my lights now.
The heat doesnt bother me at all, and its actually very nice in cold weather.
If the light can handle the heat, then so can I lol.
I just cant afford to be destroying my “investments.”

A concern I still have about the way I use turbo though,
I typically use turbo in 2 to 5 second bursts and then adjust down to whatever mode I feel is appropriate at the time.
Sometimes I’ll do a bunch of 2-5 second turbo bursts within a few minutes though.
Or, I pull my light out only to use it on turbo for a quick 2 – 5 second burst and back into my pocket.
Is this hard on the cell at all? Bad practice? Perfectly fine?

Its the not knowing that has me “fearful” and playing it safe, but I hate thinking im limiting myself for no real reason.
I really appreciate you helping me to better understand my quesions and concerns.

I think Ive just been hung up on a few misunderstandings that have had me unnecessarily scared of using my lights.
I really want to feel like I have a good understanding of what Im trying to put a lot of reliance into.
I need to know that I can actually rely on my tools. Otherwise I may as well just not have them.
I was getting really bummed out thinking that I may not be able to rely on and assume I have light in my pocket at all times.
Living with this new found power for the past couple years now, the idea of not having it anymore, feels like it would be similar losing a limb or one of my senses to not have the power of immediate illumination anymore.

Its like having internet on my phone.
I held out for yeeears on adding data to my phone plan.
Internet was just something that was done at home.
Or anywhere I could connect to wifi.
But having the power of ‘the internet in my pocket’ for the past couple years, I cant imagine going back to not having it.
If it wasnt reliable though, and I wasnt able to just assume its going to work when I need it. Then I would even bother with it.

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That won’t cause any cell damage. In fact, that’s pretty conservative use. Go forth and turbo

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